Arcane Mage Vs Fire Mage - Blizzard Forums

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Arcane Mage vs Fire Mage Classes Mage January 3, 2021, 9:33pm 1

Currently I am playing a 206 ilvl Arcane mage. io score of 860. My overall in dungeons is usually around 4.5k

I hear everyone and their grandparents say Fire is better. I know fire has better utility with Dragon Breath and their Cheat Death abilities. Also, their AoE is uncapped, or close to it.

Is Fire SIGNIFICANTLY better damage wise around my ilvl? Like, if I am doing 4.5k is fire doing 6k?

Or is it that Fire is only better at top end due to utility, which then has a trickle down effect as Meta? I like how Arcane plays and feels. But, I am now doing keys around +13 (this week at least, probably higher on Fort) and if Fires damage is THAT much more, I may need to consider.

January 3, 2021, 9:53pm 2

You also have to consider how much movement the bosses have - that affects arcane much more than it does fire. I did a +10 PF and my damage was fine on packs but terribad on the last boss due to all the movement. Did get to watch an unholy dk pop Army and do like 40% more than anyone else though :smiley:

1 Like January 3, 2021, 10:12pm 3

I really don’t have an issue with movement as arcane. I get plenty of CC. I save them for when movement is needed, since they stack to 3. Or use them with Magi. Between them, Arcane Explosion, and Barrage. On top of PoM. Movement isn’t an issue at all for me.

I am aware I lack the Utility of Fire Mage, but that is fine if it is all I am lacking. If its damage though, a significant amount. That is something worth considering.

Edit: I just did 5.4k Overall in a +13 Mist. Still curious about damage comparison to equivalently geared Fire.

January 3, 2021, 11:01pm 4 Freath:

Like, if I am doing 4.5k is fire doing 6k?

Depends on the pulls. If your group is doing a lot of smaller size pulls then arcane is likely better. If they end up doing a couple of combined packs like 7ish enemy pulls then its fire. Arcane is totally fine for higher level keys its just that fire synchronizes better with bigger pulls and prideful. But if you guys pull conservatively then arcane will be pretty insane.

Freath:

I just did 5.4k Overall in a +13 Mist. Still curious about damage comparison to equivalently geared Fire.

I did 6k overall as fire in a halls of atonement 14. Partially because one large pull I did 45k dps with power infusion.

1 Like January 3, 2021, 11:03pm 5 Manather:

Depends on the pulls. If your group is doing a lot of smaller size pulls then arcane is likely better. If they end up doing a couple of combined packs like 7ish enemy pulls then its fire. Arcane is totally fine for higher level keys its just that fire synchronizes better with bigger pulls and prideful. But if you guys pull conservatively then arcane will be pretty insane.

This. Fire will also likely win on boss fights, but overall dungeon DPS and DPS on trash between the two is going to come down to your tank more than your spec assuming you are playing your spec correctly.

I’d also argue that Arcane would win out on lower keys too, while Fire will win out at higher keys where trash packs don’t just flop over.

1 Like January 3, 2021, 11:04pm 6 Hotandtrashy:

Fire will also likely win on boss fights

It is worth saying that prideful giving 5% mana a second really helps arcane wreck boss fights if they have it. So I don’t even think its that far behind if you have prideful on a boss.

January 3, 2021, 11:08pm 7

Arcane doesn’t suffer as much in the way of mana these days, in my opinion it’s more about movement and having to fish for procs for an awkward burn phase. Sure Evocation takes a few seconds to channel, but the lines between burn and conserve feel much more blurred and less impactful (especially without Equipoise and now a focus more on CC procs when before they weren’t prioritized over Blast).

There is an interesting point that I hadn’t thought about though. With Prideful I wonder how Enlightened is compared to Overwhelming Power. I still don’t see it really competing for NightFae Arcanes given the reduction to AP, but then again I’m not really focusing on Arcane much these days so I’m not too invested.

January 3, 2021, 11:18pm 8

If you’re running in coordinated groups that will pull extra large around your combustion timer at +15 and higher, fire will beat arcane. If you’re pugging and following standard routes that kill one, two packs at a time tops, the difference is negligible.

January 3, 2021, 11:43pm 9

The big draw with fire and plus is the larger pulls obviously, and the instant on demand burst for a troublesome pack. I can do decent damage as a frost in plus, but being able to delete a pack when needed has made them much smoother in pugs for sure. Only just now doing 10s but the end run damage was very similar compared to frost and its leggo

January 4, 2021, 1:41am 10 Freath:

I just did 5.4k Overall in a +13 Mist.

Update, just did 6.2k overall as fire in a 15 mists. One factor could have been we had prideful first boss due to a skip and I had a priest occasionally power infusing me.

January 4, 2021, 2:32am 11

Man, adding Power infuse really muddies up the water. Would of loved to know the damage without PI. I try not to rely on externals when considering my personal damage, as it wont always be there.

January 4, 2021, 2:17pm 12

Hey, I made the swap from Arcane to Fire this week. For both raiding and Mythic+, the difference was huge.

My guild just downed Heroic Sire Denathrius, and playing Arcane on that fight was absolutely miserable. There were a lot of mechanics that spawned garbage at your feet, and Arcane really doesn’t have the tools to deal with it. A lot of the later fights (i.e. Sludgefist, Sire) have a lot of movement, and Fire really doesn’t care nearly as much as Arcane does.

For M+, Fire really shines when you have communication with your tank. When you have Combust up, your tank may be able to pull an extra pack due to your insane AoE burst. While Arcane will beat Fire in AoE when Fire doesn’t have Combust, Fire still wins overall due to Combusting large packs.

What really puts Fire over the edge on Arcane in M+ is the fact that Arcane has to take Resonance and Arcane Bombardment to be able to do any AoE at all. This gimps single target a significant amount. Fire takes Flame Patch over Conflagration… which is barely a loss at all single target.

Also, don’t underestimate Dragon’s Breath. Two things it can stop that immediately come to mind are Loyal Beasts and Fungstorm. Arcane can’t do anything to stop those.

January 4, 2021, 3:58pm 13

You can poly the shrooms, that’s what I was doing as frost before swapping fire

January 4, 2021, 4:45pm 14 Freath:

Is Fire SIGNIFICANTLY better damage wise around my ilvl?

It’s really not. Certainly nothing like it was in BfA with the broken corruption stacking. My own personal experience, at least in raiding (because it’s rare to have two mages in an M+ group) is that I am very much on par with similarly geared Fire mages. Of course there are certain situations that will favor one spec over the other and heavy movement hinders Arcane far more than it does Fire but at the end of the day it’s pretty much a wash.

That said, mages in general are not in a good spot right now. The skill level required to execute the Fire and Arcane play styles well in particular is high enough that it should be rewarded with damage numbers that are not middle of the pack at best, especially considering that mages are a purely DPS class and are getting left in the dust by hybrid classes that can tank/heal as well.

Overall, SL is the least class balanced expansion I’ve ever played and I’ve played since Vanilla.

January 4, 2021, 11:56pm 15 Laethra:

Arcane Bombardment to

This just isn’t true. You do need Arcane Bombardment, but you don’t have to take resonance.

January 4, 2021, 11:57pm 16

The expansion just started lol.

January 5, 2021, 12:14am 17

Yeah… and it’s already almost over for a lot of people who have given up on playing a mage and don’t wish to switch mains. It’s a sad turn of events for sure.

2 Likes January 5, 2021, 12:19am 18 Blìnd:

This just isn’t true. You do need Arcane Bombardment, but you don’t have to take resonance.

If you’re using Arcane Bombardment and NOT using Resonance you’re trolling yourself. Sure, you don’t have to but you would be foolish not to. Which is unfortunate because it’s not a very interesting talent and ought to be baseline. Arcane Echo is a much more engaging option on that row but much worse on AoE. It’s another example of how Arcane is forced to choose whether to talent for AoE or ST and can never do both which is not an issue for many other classes with have clearly delineated talent rows for AoE and ST.

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Tag » Arcane Vs Fire Shadowlands