Bench Testing A Starter Questions | AnandTech Forums

Search

Everywhere Threads This forum This thread Search titles only By: Search Advanced search… Everywhere Threads This forum This thread Search titles only By: Search Advanced… Log in Register

Search

Everywhere Threads This forum This thread Search titles only By: Search Advanced search… Everywhere Threads This forum This thread Search titles only By: Search Advanced… Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar Menu Install the app Install

• Home
• Featured
• Forums Trending Search forums
• What's new New posts Latest activity

Bench testing a starter questions

• Thread starter slag
• Start date Jun 19, 2017

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar

• Home
• Forums
• Social
• The Garage

You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.

slag

Lifer

Dec 14, 2000 10,473 81 101 Took our boat out on the lake yesterday and had starter issues. Battery is good, sits at 12.7 volts, passes with a load tester, but when trying to start the boat, the starter slowly turns over or doesn't at all. So, I cleaned up all electrical connections (they weren't very dirty to begin with), and pulled the starter. I sanded down the block ground, starter connections, and battery connections on the boat. I clamped the starter in my vise and tested it with the battery. With no load, the bendix engages and the starter spins up, but battery voltage drops to 11.4ish (this is without a load), and the starter doesn't spin at all after removing power. I'm going to take it apart and check it out tonight, but what is normal voltage drop for a starter with no load? It initially dropped from 12.6 volts to 11 volts, then went back up to 11.4-11.5, but I'm not able to check amperage as I think anything over 100 amps would be suspect. My boat has a 5.7 liter engine (260 hp).

bruceb

Diamond Member

Aug 20, 2004 8,874 111 106 If it is dropping that far with no load on it, then when it has the motor load on it, the voltage will go down even further and it won't be able to start the motor. It sounds like it is binding up inside due to it being used in a marine environment. I would first try a new solenoid, as it has high current electrical contacts in it, that do wear out over time. If they are corroded or worn the starter will not get full voltage or enough current. And check the bearings to see if the shaft is binding. Same with the brushes, they wear over time and need to be changed.

NutBucket

Lifer

Aug 30, 2000 27,180 649 126 Yeah, bench testing verifies basic function but with no load it's not necessarily a conclusive test.

slag

Lifer

Dec 14, 2000 10,473 81 101 I'm going to take it apart after I get home tonight and check the commutator, brushes, and bearings. I can get replacement bearings and brushes much cheaper than a new starter and hopefully be back in business cheaply.

bruceb

Diamond Member

Aug 20, 2004 8,874 111 106 You will need either a puller to take a bearing off a shaft and a press to pop one out of the case and to press the new one onto the shaft. And starters are not that expensive (usually well under $100) especially for a GM 5.7 (350cu) engine. They are all over and can be had at any store or even salvage yard. If you want to try and repair it see this link for specifics: http://www.bluewatermarinesvc.com/html/gm_starter.html How To Repair The Marine GM Starter There are actually two different gm starters, the earlier standard hd marine starter and the newer gear reduction starter. Its easy to tell the difference, on the gear reduction starter the solenoid and motor are both about the same size. The earlier style starter the motor is quite a bit larger than the solenoid. Both style starters are in use today. Either one of these starters come in clockwise and counter clockwise rotation. The nose cone on these starters very as well such as in a diagonal or cross bolt pattern or maybe from a top mount or lower mount location on the engine. The starter that will be covered will be an earlier style of starter. These starters can be found in Mercruiser, OMC, Crusader, Volvo and many other marine engines. We will start with a starter that was removed from a boat and in a non working condition. As with this starter most marine starters usually quit working because of living in a blige of a boat and end up getting submerged numerous times. Rarely does the starter quit functioning because it is actually worn out. First thing to do is to remove the solenoid by removing the retaining bolt for the electrical contact as well as the two bolts that attach the solenoid to the starter. Then rotate the solenoid to release it from the starter it is spring loaded so be careful. Once removed discard the solenoid and spring, but keep the bolts for reassembly. Also remove the two bolts at the back of the starter holding on the end cap. Arrows in the picture indicate the bolts to be removed. Go ahead and pull the rear cover and casing apart. This starter is in pretty rough condition, but salvageable. You can see in the picture where arrow is pointing a part of a broken spring from the brush holder. The two smaller arrows point to two bolts that need to be removed to be able to pull out the armature and flame shield from the nose cone. This shield is what determines this as a marine starter rather than an automotive. Be careful not to loose the leather washer on the end of the armature. The case has been cleaned here. The use of scrapers, wire brush, sandpaper, and solvent did wonders. I removed the pins that held the brush holders and springs. I also removed the brushes for replacement with new. The brushes were really not that bad but the corrosion was so bad I had to remove them anyway. Also I had to add an extra brush spring from another parts starter because of the broken spring. Note disassembly procedure of brushes so you can put the assembly back together correctly. In this picture the new brushes are assembled into the case. If you are installing new brushes make sure they are installed correctly and the taper is pointing in the correct direction. Make note of this before removing the brushes. Also a little bit of grease on the pins will keep things working free for sometime in the future. You may need to finesse the springs while holding the brush holders and installing the pins. This picture shows the cleaned and assembled case, the cleaned nose cone, and the armature that was cleaned. The brush contact area on the armature has been sanded with a fine samdpaper so as to have a clean contact surface. Note the leather washer on the bottom of the armature, also note the bendix (starter drive gear assy) has been cleaned and greased for assembly. This picture shows the armature installed into the nose cone. The two arrows indicate the location of the installed retaining bolts. In an automotive starter this shield(spark arrestor) will not be there. In a marine application this must be there as to prevent sparks from entering the bilge area and protecting you from an accidental explosion. This is what makes this a marine starter! Before tightening these bolts down all the way slide the case over the armature, you will have to seperate the brush holders to get it down all the way and locked into the locating pin on the nose cone. The shield may have to be tapped one way or another for the case to settle in all the way. Once you are sure the case will slide down all the way you can pull it back off then tighten down the bolts that hold the shield. When initially installing the armature into the nose cone make sure the cradle is in the proper slot on the bendix. This picture shows the case installed and ready for the rear cap to be installed. You can also see the new solenoid and spring, as well as the bolts and cap are cleaned up and ready for install. The gm solenoids come in long and short sizes. I find it best to install with the same that the starter originally came with. The one in the picture is a long style solenoid. The next procedure is to install the cap. Make sure the leather washer is in place on the armature then put a little grease onto the end of the shaft before installing the cap. The bolt with the nut that retains the support bracket goes towards the solenoid side. You may have to wiggle things around a bit or peek under the case to align the cap bolts. Make sure every thing centers properly before tightening. Now the solenoid can be installed. First slide the spring over the plunger, then slide the solenoid over the plunger/spring assenbly. You will need to apply some silicone on the tab of the solenoid so when it is installed the silicone will fill the void between the starter and the solenoid. See arrow in picture for location. To install you will need to push the solenoid down to compress the spring then turn the solenoid to slide the tab into the slot until the bolt holes line up. Then install the bolts and tighten. Make sure the silicone has filled the void properly so as no spark can escape. With the hardware that came with the solenoid there should be a spur washer, a copper sleeve, and a bolt to attach the brass electrical portion of the solenoid to the electrical contact on the case. In some cases the sleeve is not used. This is the completed starter. The arrow is pointing to where the silicone has been applied. The starter can now be painted if you wish. To bench test the starter before installing you can use jumper cables or hard wire the starter directly from a battery. Using jumper cables there will be a lack of amperage to the starter so it will function sluggishly. If hard wiring make sure you hold on to the starter firmly when testing as the torque from the starter will cause it to roll briskly. Actually when testing either way make sure the starter is held firmly. The picture shows where to attach the cables and on the solenoid where to activate the starter. I use a remote start button for testing as shown here. The ground needs to be attached firmly to the starter case and the positive cable needs to be attached to the large stud on the solenoid. Then you can jumper from the positive stud to the smaller stud marked with a "S" to activate the starter. The stud marked with a "R" is only used in some applications. This post will become hot only when the solenoid is activated and is used mainly with engines that use point style ignition, as this supplies momentary 12v to the ignition during cranking. Hard wiring is usually the best way to go as not to have cables pop off or shorting. Any signs of current or sparks when attaching the battery cables "STOP" something is wrong. Recheck your connections and if there is still problems there may be a short within the case. Note: Blue Water Marine is not liable for damages caused by improper installations or repairs. The information on these pages are for "information only", not to replace manufacturers instructions. These pages are meant for helpful knowledge for the do-it-yourself, if you are not confident in what you are doing please leave the work for the experienced. Last edited: Jun 19, 2017

slag

Lifer

Dec 14, 2000 10,473 81 101 My current starter is the gear reduction one. I'll take photos/videos when I get home. I have pullers and a 20 ton press, so no issues there. Thanks for that valuable info about rebuilding the starter.

slag

Lifer

Dec 14, 2000 10,473 81 101 Took it apart last night, cleaned up some rust/corrosion, cleaned out the old grease and regreased it and used emory cloth to clean up the shaft and armature. Put it all back together and it seems to engage faster, sound better, but still see the same voltage drop when engaging. I'm going to install it in the boat tonight or tomorrow or whenever I get a chance and try it out. I have a ton of photos and a couple videos, but I can't access imgur or most pic hosting sites at work, only bbzzdd and its now blocked because its hosted at a different site than before. My starter was a gear reduction variety so I think the way it operates is correct in regards to not staying spinning when removing voltage from the starter. The marine battery that had dropped to 8.4 volts held steady off the charger at 12.5 all day yesterday so I think its good now also.

slag

Lifer

Dec 14, 2000 10,473 81 101 Put it back in the boat yesterday. Took the ignition coil lead off the dizzy and turned the key. click... Just kidding!! It turned the boat over better than it ever had. I think we are back in business. I put the lead back on the distributor before I forgot next time we make it out to the lake. I didn't want the boat to start without muffs on the outdrive when trying out the starter. You must log in or register to reply here. Share: Facebook X (Twitter) Reddit Tumblr WhatsApp Email Share Link

TRENDING THREADS

• DiscussionZen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)
  • Started by DisEnchantment
  • Sep 29, 2022
  • Replies: 25K
  CPUs and Overclocking
• T DiscussionIntel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
  • Started by Tigerick
  • Aug 22, 2022
  • Replies: 24K
  CPUs and Overclocking
• DiscussionIntel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread
  • Started by TheF34RChannel
  • Jun 18, 2017
  • Replies: 23K
  CPUs and Overclocking
• DiscussionApple Silicon SoC thread
  • Started by Eug
  • Nov 10, 2020
  • Replies: 11K
  CPUs and Overclocking
• QuestionZen 6 Speculation Thread
  • Started by IronLynx
  • May 22, 2024
  • Replies: 9K
  CPUs and Overclocking

COMPANY AnandTech is part of Future plc, an international media group and leading digital publisher. Visit our corporate site. © Future Publishing Limited Quay House, The Ambury, Bath BA1 1UA. All rights reserved. England and Wales company registration number 2008885. RESOURCES

• Advertising
• Cookies Policies
• Privacy
• Term & Conditions

FOLLOW Facebook Twitter Top Bottom

• This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. Accept Learn more…