MakChingYuen Member  Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 18, 2012 12:59:20 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 12:59:20 GMT The way people used to learn how to care for a sword is either mostly in the Japanese way or the western way (with super fast shop method like alcohol and lube with oil, cut-the-crap is the key point! :mrgreen: ).. here let me share a traditional CHINESE way which is different.Traditionally, and this is not a secret too, people who treated a forged (hammered) sward or blade with care for the first or first two years because of one reason and only that reason -- to preserve the blade and make it rust resistant for a much longer time in the coming future. There are ancient swords that people dug up from the graves which stay rust-free for a long time and the edge is still sharp and free of rust. Why so? Here is what they do. A lot of Chinese articles talked about this but I did not see any English version, so this might be something interesting.. 0. Bow.. (LOL!!! CUT THAT CRAP! NO BOWING PLEASE!)1. Rub off oil with a cloth, and use rubbing alcohol if you like, yeah, all oil must be gone totally. 2. Rub the sword with the cloth again with a cloth until it's kinda heated mildly, and this process can be done by using a block of wood to wrap a cloth/leather around and rub the blade with care. I am doing it the fast way in the video, usually you rub for about 10-15mins to get the blade ready.3. Apply flour to the blade and rub again for 5mins or so. This process is to use flour to polish the blade up and also people say it have some chemical reaction done to the blade itself which I don't know how to explain. Anyway, I find this step very good for helping to remove more oil and polish the nice mirror polish to a cleaner surface, work like a charm. (no fancy crap, it's really working!)4. Wipe off everything and make sure no flour is there.5. re-oil the blade by applying a THIN coat of oil to the blade. I suggest boiled linseed if you don't mind the spell, this thing work like a charm but remember to apply a super ultra-thin coat only, wipe the excess off. Or if you got hoppe #9 gun oil you can use that too. No need for any fancy choji oil here. The main point is rust-resistant, that's all. 6. Clean your scabbard from dust and if it is wood, use some oil (orange oil, etc,.. whatever works) with a cloth and oil the wood. I find orange oil work great for these. Sword back to scabbard and complete.Warning: DON'T GO CRAZY WIPING AND CUT YOURSELF.The "masters" say that you should do this everyday for about 1 year for a new forged sword and 2nd year you just do it once per week and 3rd year you do it once a month and then the sword shall be pretty rust-proof in the future and not much care is needed. In the Chinese saying there is phrase that say "10 years to rub a sword" which is referring to this step. You rub and rub and rub the sword for days and days.. just to get the sword polished up and some dots and patterns will show up on the blade, making the blade giving off some greenish and bluish color when shine under sunlight. Normal swords shine off white only and not green to bluish color. This color of green and bluish is what people refer to "Jian Chi" the chi of sword. It's not any magical or powerful thing, it's a beautiful thing actually, like saying the sword is pretty. Usually this is only there for extra-good-forged-treasure-swords. (Bao Jian) that people paid a fortune to have it made. Honestly, I did not try this for a year yet but I have been doing this for a few times since I got the jade lion sword awhile back and the sword Is getting some changes that I noticed..such as the scabbard is greener and shinier, the blade is smoother and cut better and also seems to give off a layer of faint bluish light when light is shine on it.. hard to see, but there is the layer that is there.. and that's what I experienced.Here is a demo of the method I do. Usually it's a good idea to do a few swords at once.Key point - NO BOWING, NO CRAP, ONLY PRACTICAL STUFF IS NEEDED. Chinese HATE those crappy silly fancy movements, look at how Chinese cook their food and you know, they don't put colorful chips on the dish, no fancy colorful veggies, everything is brown and white and mono-tone like most of the time. It's ugly when you put it on a table, but it's tasty inside when you eat it! That's Chinese-style of sword care too. Nothing is there just for show.  Enjoy! | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
William Swiger Global Moderator Retired Global Moderator  "If I must choose between peace and righteousness, I choose righteousness" — Theodore Roosevelt Posts: 11,040 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 18, 2012 14:03:51 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by William Swiger on Nov 18, 2012 14:03:51 GMT Very interesting. Thanks for posting. | | "We can have no "50-50" allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all." — Theodore Roosevelt | |
Kumdoalan Member  Posts: 1,075 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 18, 2012 15:32:55 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Kumdoalan on Nov 18, 2012 15:32:55 GMT I got friends that use many means to tend to their swords.Some guys go with the standard cleaning kit that came with their sword.other guys use things that are totally different.I have went from one thing to another to find the thing that works best for me and my hands.I clean the sword with rubbing alcohol that I spray onto the blade.I clean next with a microfiber cloth.I oil the blade with a soft cloth soaked with mineral oil .I do not attempt to polish the blade with any dusting of any power. | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 18, 2012 15:42:09 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 15:42:09 GMT Kumdoalan wroteI got friends that use many means to tend to their swords.Some guys go with the standard cleaning kit that came with their sword.other guys use things that are totally different.I have went from one thing to another to find the thing that works best for me and my hands.I clean the sword with rubbing alcohol that I spray onto the blade.I clean next with a microfiber cloth.I oil the blade with a soft cloth soaked with mineral oil .I do not attempt to polish the blade with any dusting of any power.See? That's what I said already - the western "cut the crap" way which work and is fast.  My way is the same but it require a step more which is the rubbing with flour and you rub for a longer time. That's all.Microfiber cloth is a nice thing though, clean so well!!! | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 18, 2012 22:51:10 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 22:51:10 GMT Just an update there - got some cool info from a Chinese swordsmith.. he say that using flour is okay but if you want a better result, you can use the stone powder (very fine) that we use in incense pot ($2.99 for a big bag) and just dap some on the cloth like how I apply it and scrub the blade down, wow.. I just tried, this is AMAZING result! The blade get really shiny and polished up, with a mirror coming back and after re-oiling with gun oil and rubbing it in, the blade DO reflect a faint layer of blue! MAN! this is cool! I love the trick! | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
| Kumdoalan Member Posts: 1,075 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 2:33:55 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Kumdoalan on Nov 19, 2012 2:33:55 GMT I have a sword teacher here who really makes use of a lot of power.I think it was baby power if I remember right?From what I see, he just dumps on a ton of it.I'm not sure about doing that idea.....I used to use the powder ball that came with my sword cleaning kit for a while, but I decided that the idea of me "polishing" the steel....is asking a bit much of my skills.I know many guys here use powder every time they tend to their swords.But Im not convinced that's a very good idea.Right now I try to keep it very simple and follow the advice I have received from members here.1 - Spray on rubbing alcohol.2 - clean with microfiber cloth.3 - Mineral oilMy system may not be fancy, but I'm not going to cause any damage this way, and it's fast.... | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 2:43:36 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 2:43:36 GMT Kumdoalan wroteI have a sword teacher here who really makes use of a lot of power.I think it was baby power if I remember right?From what I see, he just dumps on a ton of it...you mean powder right? the baby powder for putting it on the baby skin right? what is that powder for (re- swords) anyway? polishing?I remember the swordsmith say that the polishing job with the powder should take 15-30mins just to rub the blade over and over again in the old school way. SEriously that is a LOT of patience.. and if you got a job and stuff to do, this isn't easy to upkeep everyday. I really wish you see how much difference there is to a blade when treated the "old school" way though, so I am trying it out myself but I can't keep that up everyday and my rubbing isn't 15-30mins either but about 5mins.. hahahaha! Lazy me... | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
| Kumdoalan Member Posts: 1,075 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 3:03:43 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Kumdoalan on Nov 19, 2012 3:03:43 GMT yes, "powder" is what I wanted to say...I'm not sure "baby power" (whatever that would be) is all that great for a sword.as for the question "What is that powder?", that is a question I had about a year ago when i started to use the cleaning kit powder ball every week on my swords.I asked here on the SBG forum what was in that powder ball?The answer was?.....no one can be sure.Everyone knows what is in a real Japanese powder ball, but as for what was in my cheap Chinese-made copy?......no one can say for sure.Some suggested it was just baby powder...others had other hints.but because there are so many millions of cleaning kits made and sold out of China, there is no way to know whats out there.Now, it's not just me that has a problem with the use of the powder all the time.i have heard stories of guys who have used that same powder from the cleaning kits on a mirror and ended up with a fogged and scratched mirror.That was enough for me to stop the use of the powder ball until I know what I'm doing with it, or know for sure what is in the powder ball. | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 8:56:54 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 8:56:54 GMT Kumdoalan wroteyes, "powder" is what I wanted to say...I'm not sure "baby power" (whatever that would be) is all that great for a sword.as for the question "What is that powder?", that is a question I had about a year ago when i started to use the cleaning kit powder ball every week on my swords.I asked here on the SBG forum what was in that powder ball?The answer was?.....no one can be sure.I heard that it is some kind of fine grinded stone in the ball, it's stone powder. But the cheapo out there use chalk and tac, which is bad and give more powdering effect to the eyes.But as you said, what's REALLY in there is a mystery, hahaha!That's why it's better to use baby POWER instead, hahaha! | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
| Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 10:14:57 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 10:14:57 GMT Kumdoalan, baby powder is actually Talc, it's a very soft mineral, hydrated magnesium silicate, it the softest mineral known, that they make 'talcum powder' out of it, which we call 'baby powder' these days.Mak, that's interesting information about the Chinese sword care techniques.Thanks | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 10:28:34 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 10:28:34 GMT Blackthorn wroteKumdoalan, baby powder is actually Talc, it's a very soft mineral, hydrated magnesium silicate, it the softest mineral known, that they make 'talcum powder' out of it, which we call 'baby powder' these days.Mak, that's interesting information about the Chinese sword care techniques.ThanksAh~ well I heard from some sites that sell the Japanese sword care BALLS saying that cheap balls come with powder like talc and the high end balls are filled with some stone powder instead, very fine stone. We use stone powder for incense pots in Chinese and so the swordsmith I talked to told me to use those instead, make sense now! | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
Lord Cobol Member  Posts: 216 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 20:59:54 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Lord Cobol on Nov 19, 2012 20:59:54 GMT Question/comment/speculation from a newbie: I find it a bit hard to believe that there could actually be any real chemical reaction with the flour, and even harder to believe that there could be a similar reaction to the fine stone powder that is supposed to be even better. But I could believe that the flour (etc) gives a fine polish and reduces the number of tiny places where water can escape being wiped off and eventually cause rust. I could even believe that flour or stone powder + oil might fill in microscopic pits & cracks and prevent water from getting in. Sound plausible???Is the flour supposed to be rice flour? Wheat? I *guess* whole-wheat might be too abrasive ?And how blasphemous would it be to try to try to speed up the pre-flour rub-it-to-warm-it step with a blowdryer. | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 19, 2012 23:40:58 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 23:40:58 GMT Lord Cobol wroteQuestion/comment/speculation from a newbie: I find it a bit hard to believe that there could actually be any real chemical reaction with the flour, and even harder to believe that there could be a similar reaction to the fine stone powder that is supposed to be even better. But I could believe that the flour (etc) gives a fine polish and reduces the number of tiny places where water can escape being wiped off and eventually cause rust. I could even believe that flour or stone powder + oil might fill in microscopic pits & cracks and prevent water from getting in. Sound plausible???Is the flour supposed to be rice flour? Wheat? I *guess* whole-wheat might be too abrasive ?And how blasphemous would it be to try to try to speed up the pre-flour rub-it-to-warm-it step with a blowdryer.I really don't know about how that work. I only heard from a swordsmith and so I am doing it to try it out myself to see the results and difference. But surely with a blowdryer is not going to work as well as rubbing, that's for sure cuz I asked. haha! No shortcut there~ Blowing and rubbing is two different results. Try it on your hand, rub your skin until it's hot.. now use a blowdryer, see the difference??? | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
| Kumdoalan Member Posts: 1,075 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Nov 20, 2012 1:46:17 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Kumdoalan on Nov 20, 2012 1:46:17 GMT I dont know about the blow dryer idea.....you are getting into an area with a blow dryer that might be worth asking an expert about. | |
| Lord Cobol Member Posts: 216 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Dec 13, 2012 23:44:50 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Lord Cobol on Dec 13, 2012 23:44:50 GMT Progress report  ? Meanwhile, I might have the time and ambition to start a test on some machetes soon. The idea would be to treat one of them like in this thread for a month or two (basically until I get tired of it ), then put that one and some others with other rust treatments next to each other, sprinkle a little water on each one every day and keep checking for rust.Since I would have to go buy the flour (or whatever) the first question is whether I should get rice flour or wheat? Or go farther and look for stone powder? Suggestions? (please) Historical note: I think rice was the traditional staple food in southern China, but wheat/barley/millet/sorghum were common in the north. So is it likely that tradition sword care used different flours in different parts of China? | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Dec 14, 2012 3:59:31 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Dec 14, 2012 3:59:31 GMT Lord Cobol wroteProgress report ? Meanwhile, I might have the time and ambition to start a test on some machetes soon. The idea would be to treat one of them like in this thread for a month or two (basically until I get tired of it ), then put that one and some others with other rust treatments next to each other, sprinkle a little water on each one every day and keep checking for rust.Since I would have to go buy the flour (or whatever) the first question is whether I should get rice flour or wheat? Or go farther and look for stone powder? Suggestions? (please) Historical note: I think rice was the traditional staple food in southern China, but wheat/barley/millet/sorghum were common in the north. So is it likely that tradition sword care used different flours in different parts of China?I was told any flour should be okay, but stone powder they use for incense pot is even better, haha! I know it's rough, but they say it doesn't matter. Your swords are not mirrors.. so it shouldn't be like.. "oh it scratched my sword..." that kinda crap. If you scared to scratch it, why do you use it? hahaha..Actually I just tested a new method today which is quite good, let me update abit here..See my stone cube idea, it's really good for safety and applying better rubbing on the sword. I am using the powder ball here for example which make it easier to apply, but flour still works. I tried 2 times with this method on a NEW sword, the han sword, and the obvious change is the damascus pattern beneath the sword is MUCH more vivid in bigger contrast, more clear and vivid pattern, whereas before it is cloudy and not easy to see the define lines. So it did do something magical to the blade with only 2 sessions done. Very cool effect. I think I will keep doing it for awhile to test the result out more. It's fun to do it anyway, haha!I don't think machete need this kind of SPA though, machete are meant to be rough use, who cares, just spray some WD40 over it and let it be, hahahaha! | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
Opferous Manufacturer/Vendor  Posts: 622 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Dec 14, 2012 11:18:35 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Opferous on Dec 14, 2012 11:18:35 GMT The powder in incense pots they're talking about is probably rice chaff ash and is readily available for purchase online.A viable alternative is pumice powder, which can be found in many different fineness grades and can thus be adjusted based on the level of polish at which the sword started. No point in using FFFF grade powder on a sword at 400 grit. To apply, besides the t-shirt/stone cube, you can also use a felt pad or soft leather (check the abrasiveness though).Lord Cobol wroteMeanwhile, I might have the time and ambition to start a test on some machetes soon. The idea would be to treat one of them like in this thread for a month or two (basically until I get tired of it ), then put that one and some others with other rust treatments next to each other, sprinkle a little water on each one every day and keep checking for rustI wouldn't treat it as a rust treatment. It's just an attempt to bring the sword to a higher grade finish. It'll resist rust a little more but not really if you're putting water on it. I also doubt typical machetes are anywhere the finish level of a mirror-finished sword or knife, so there's not much benefit to be gained there from a month of powder polishing. | James Fang, President | |
| MakChingYuen Member Posts: 375 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Dec 14, 2012 11:40:54 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by MakChingYuen on Dec 14, 2012 11:40:54 GMT Opferous wroteThe powder in incense pots they're talking about is probably rice chaff ash and is readily available for purchase online.A viable alternative is pumice powder, which can be found in many different fineness grades and can thus be adjusted based on the level of polish at which the sword started. No point in using FFFF grade powder on a sword at 400 grit. To apply, besides the t-shirt/stone cube, you can also use a felt pad or soft leather (check the abrasiveness though).I wouldn't treat it as a rust treatment. It's just an attempt to bring the sword to a higher grade finish. It'll resist rust a little more but not really if you're putting water on it. I also doubt typical machetes are anywhere the finish level of a mirror-finished sword or knife, so there's not much benefit to be gained there from a month of powder polishing.pumice powder? where do you buy those? Sounds cool~ I had used a felt/ microfiber cloth before, it works but the cube give you abit more help on handling and you feel safer plus the cloth don't get "eaten" by the edge even you slipped. So that is why I use the cube this time. The analyzing you did make total sense, bringing it to a higher polish is more rust resistant, that's true as tested by myself. Rougher sounds are harder to keep rust resistant. | | Feel free to visit my temple - Chi in Nature Taoist Temple | |
| Lord Cobol Member Posts: 216 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Dec 14, 2012 19:06:02 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Lord Cobol on Dec 14, 2012 19:06:02 GMT My interest is rust prevention, not appearance. Even before this thread started I was thinking about testing different rust treatments somehow, like oil, vasoline & wax, to see which ones start to rust how soon. When/if I do it, might as well add some variation of the tricks in this thread to the mix.To me the machetes are disposable learner swords for practicing sharpening, cutting & rust treatment. Once I get my first real sword (probably within a month) then the machetes can be sacrificed to the rust gods with no great loss.But, since I an interested in Chinese swords, if prefer to say "short tactical dao" instead of "machete" | |
| Opferous Manufacturer/Vendor Posts: 622 | Chinese Sword Maintenance and Care in Traditional Method Dec 14, 2012 20:37:58 GMT Quote - Select Post
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Post by Opferous on Dec 14, 2012 20:37:58 GMT MakChingYuen wrotepumice powder? where do you buy those? Sounds cool~If you're looking locally, specialized health/beauty stores will carry it, since pumice powder is used as a base for a lot of homemade washes, soaps, etc. I tend to just order online in pounds for a cheaper price. The place I use actually has a sampler set with all the different grain sizes, so you can test to see which you feel would be the best for your sword: lemelange.com/pumice_powder.aspxLord Cobol wroteMy interest is rust prevention, not appearance. Even before this thread started I was thinking about testing different rust treatments somehow, like oil, vasoline & wax, to see which ones start to rust how soon. When/if I do it, might as well add some variation of the tricks in this thread to the mix.If you're going to give it a shot, then you'll want to bring the machete up to a very high polish, mirror-finish if possible. It'll do better than other rougher finishes like sand-blasted, bead-blasted, or satin, but if left dry with no other preventative measure, it will likely rust well before an oiled sword or one with moisture properly sealed out ceteris parabus. | | James Fang, President | |
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My way is the same but it require a step more which is the rubbing with flour and you rub for a longer time. That's all.Microfiber cloth is a nice thing though, clean so well!!! 
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? Meanwhile, I might have the time and ambition to start a test on some machetes soon. The idea would be to treat one of them like in this thread for a month or two (basically until I get tired of it ), then put that one and some others with other rust treatments next to each other, sprinkle a little water on each one every day and keep checking for rust.Since I would have to go buy the flour (or whatever) the first question is whether I should get rice flour or wheat? Or go farther and look for stone powder? Suggestions? (please) Historical note: I think rice was the traditional staple food in southern China, but wheat/barley/millet/sorghum were common in the north. So is it likely that tradition sword care used different flours in different parts of China? 
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