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Thread starter Thread starter Westcoast5005
Start date Start date Sep 14, 2021
Tags Tags doctor strange (marvel comics) marvel comics

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Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397 He travels so fast and risk running into a past version of himself. In strange tales issue ,124 the issue was about doctor strange traveling through time In the next issue a fight between strange and Mordo it was said that those adept In magic are not bound by space and time they can be anywhere in an instance In the other image doctor strange and the ancient one plunge themselves into the current of time. MEDIA=imgur]a/v9GZ0Iq[/MEDIA] citation: strange tales issue 124,125,155 Last edited: Sep 16, 2021

Thelastmlg

Messages 5,307 Reaction score 2,691 Moving so fast someone seems to be suspended in time is just being far faster than them, is unquantifiable, this would also be infinite speed at best. I can't find any infinite distance there, and this would be infinite, not immensurable. For the road of repetition, not only did he create it instead of crossing it, he also mentioned his occult powers there, implying he used a spell. Second one does not imply time travel via speed at all. The timeless time one was done via a spell and timeless places don't give speed anymore I see nothing about speed or time on the book So we really only have 1 immensurable feat and 1 possible infinite feat if you can pin point the infinite distance there, this is not enoughto upgrade him, even if legit, those would be outliers

Confluctor

VS Battles Retired Messages 12,683 Reaction score 9,641 I am not sure if this qualifies.... but if you look at his current description on his file, it could grant him infinite speed at max. But these I am not sure about Teezar

Teezar

Messages 3,759 Reaction score 1,618

Westcoast5005 said: Doctor strange moved so fast that time was suspended, also moved through an infinite distance. Click to expand...

Could be infinite speed but haven't read the book.

Westcoast5005 said: He travels through time and risk running into a past version of himself we also see him traveling regularly through time. Click to expand...

Did he travel through time via sheer speed?

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

Thelastmlg said: Moving so fast someone seems to be suspended in time is just being far faster than them, is unquantifiable, this would also be infinite speed at best. I can't find any infinite distance there, and this would be infinite, not immensurable. For the road of repetition, not only did he create it instead of crossing it, he also mentioned his occult powers there, implying he used a spell. Second one does not imply time travel via speed at all. The timeless time one was done via a spell and timeless places don't give speed anymore I see nothing about speed or time on the book So we really only have 1 immensurable feat and 1 possible infinite feat if you can pin point the infinite distance there, this is not enoughto upgrade him, even if legit, those would be outliers Click to expand...

First of all he wasn't suspended in time it time that was suspended So what if he uses a spell it still a speed feats they are more than one immeasurable speed feat and I would add more let's see how long this outlier stuff can last. Teezar

Teezar

Messages 3,759 Reaction score 1,618

Teezar said: Could be infinite speed but haven't read the book. Did he travel through time via sheer speed? Click to expand...

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397 Yeah through sheer speed. Teezar

Teezar

Messages 3,759 Reaction score 1,618 I can look into the scan but it would be immeasurable via running through time.

Antvasima

Maintenance worker

He/Him VS Battles Head Bureaucrat Bureaucrat Administrator Messages 174,406 Reaction score 85,725 Just a note that legitimately moving an infinite distance is just infinite speed, even when it is reliable, and that time travel does usually not remotely equate to immeasurable speed either, but the text in the scans displays as too small on my screen for me to read it. Should I close this thread?

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397 No need to close the thread as I have more feats this thread wasn't well made

Antvasima

Maintenance worker

He/Him VS Battles Head Bureaucrat Bureaucrat Administrator Messages 174,406 Reaction score 85,725 You should preferably do that from the start in the future.

Thelastmlg

Messages 5,307 Reaction score 2,691 The scan literally says "she is suspended in time", not "time is suspended", and again, moving so fast time seems frozen isjust a high speed feat, it by itself without more context is not infinite speed Is a dimensional/time travel feat, not a speed feat, we don't scale character's speed to their hax unless there is proof of it. Then add them lol, you just gave us 1 potentially immensurable feat and you wanna challenge the outlier side? Then be my guest.

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

Thelastmlg said: The scan literally says "she is suspended in time", not "time is suspended", and again, moving so fast time seems frozen isjust a high speed feat, it by itself without more context is not infinite speed Is a dimensional/time travel feat, not a speed feat, we don't scale character's speed to their hax unless there is proof of it. Then add them lol, you just gave us 1 potentially immensurable feat and you wanna challenge the outlier side? Then be my guest. Click to expand...

In strange tales issue ,124 the issue was about doctor strange traveling through time In the next issue a fight between strange and Mordo it was said that those adept In magic are not bound by space and time they can be anywhere in an instance Also here it's implied doctor strange travels through time and sometimes risks running into his past self. In the other image strange plunges his self in the currents of time traveling through time to reach other areas. He also performed this feats casually and they're still other feats. Last edited: Sep 15, 2021

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397 Bump

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397 Seems like I should make another thread for this topic since this isn't getting attention. Teezar

Teezar

Messages 3,759 Reaction score 1,618 You can message all staff In their wall.

Antvasima

Maintenance worker

He/Him VS Battles Head Bureaucrat Bureaucrat Administrator Messages 174,406 Reaction score 85,725

Teezar said: You can message all staff In their wall. Click to expand...

That is definitely not a good idea.

Antvasima

Maintenance worker

He/Him VS Battles Head Bureaucrat Bureaucrat Administrator Messages 174,406 Reaction score 85,725 @Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @MarvelFanatic119 Would you be willing to help out here please?

Qawsedf234

VS Battles Super Moderator Administrator Human Resources Messages 21,897 Reaction score 20,142

Antvasima said: Would you be willing to help out here please? Click to expand...

Nothing is sourced and the vast majority of the scans are either magic hax or not Immeasurable speed.

Antvasima

Maintenance worker

He/Him VS Battles Head Bureaucrat Bureaucrat Administrator Messages 174,406 Reaction score 85,725 Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

Qawsedf234 said: Nothing is sourced and the vast majority of the scans are either magic hax or not Immeasurable speed. Click to expand...

Which scans are magic hax?.

MarvelFanatic119

Messages 1,733 Reaction score 902 First scan doesn't say he ran into a past self, it says other self. Not sure if moving fast enough to make an "interdimensional road of repetition" is enough to qualify. But I don't think this is enough. Second and third scan is his astral form, not his physical form, which is much faster than normal and does not apply to his normal speed IIRC. Eficiente comments about this here and here:

While Strange was quickly travelling half-way around the world in his Astral form, it was stated that "For those few of you who are unversed in the ways of the mystic arts, a sorcerer traveling in his ectoplasmic form, may reach any spot in seconds...for he is not bound to ordinary natural laws of time or motion"- Strange Tales (1951)/vol 1 issue 124
Stated that "To those adept in the mystic arts, time and space are meaningless when they are in their ectoplasmic form!" as Strange and Mordo in their Astral forms fought and moved into the ocean in seconds.- Strange Tales (1951)/vol 1 issue 125
"To the master of black magic, while in his spirit form the boundaries of time and gravity are meaningless!" This one was more to show how he could fly, if he also moved a bit faster than a normal human.- Journey into Mystery (1952)/vol 1 issue 108
Loki makes a potion to "pierce the veil of time", "shatter the fabric of distance" and "set free [his] mystic essence", letting his soul "unfettered by space and time" to roam the cosmos. This is an early version of his Astral Projection, later in the issue he refers to that state as his astral form, and later issues (if not in this one) he doesn't need to make a posion for it, but the mechanics have no reason to not be the same as with Dr. Strange's Astral form and the description is comparable.- The Silver Surfer vol 1/(1968) issue 4

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

MarvelFanatic119 said: First scan doesn't say he ran into a past self, it says other self. Not sure if moving fast enough to make an "interdimensional road of repetition" is enough to qualify. But I don't think this is enough. Second and third scan is his astral form, not his physical form, which is much faster than normal and does not apply to his normal speed IIRC. Eficiente comments about this here and here:

While Strange was quickly travelling half-way around the world in his Astral form, it was stated that "For those few of you who are unversed in the ways of the mystic arts, a sorcerer traveling in his ectoplasmic form, may reach any spot in seconds...for he is not bound to ordinary natural laws of time or motion"- Strange Tales (1951)/vol 1 issue 124

Stated that "To those adept in the mystic arts, time and space are meaningless when they are in their ectoplasmic form!" as Strange and Mordo in their Astral forms fought and moved into the ocean in seconds.- Strange Tales (1951)/vol 1 issue 125

"To the master of black magic, while in his spirit form the boundaries of time and gravity are meaningless!" This one was more to show how he could fly, if he also moved a bit faster than a normal human.- Journey into Mystery (1952)/vol 1 issue 108

Loki makes a potion to "pierce the veil of time", "shatter the fabric of distance" and "set free [his] mystic essence", letting his soul "unfettered by space and time" to roam the cosmos. This is an early version of his Astral Projection, later in the issue he refers to that state as his astral form, and later issues (if not in this one) he doesn't need to make a posion for it, but the mechanics have no reason to not be the same as with Dr. Strange's Astral form and the description is comparable.- The Silver Surfer vol 1/(1968) issue 4

Click to expand...

The repetition are is past self as he is moving so fast Also even if that's just is astral form it should still count to his speed rating Also didn't Mordo state that his physical form is above his astral form?

Antvasima

Maintenance worker

He/Him VS Battles Head Bureaucrat Bureaucrat Administrator Messages 174,406 Reaction score 85,725 Thank you for helping out. Westcoast has asked me that we should close this thread, so he can post a new one that is better organised and contains more evidence. Is this a good idea, or would it just require the members here to post the same debunks once again? If so, perhaps Westcoast is willing to post his additional evidence here instead?

Confluctor

VS Battles Retired Messages 12,683 Reaction score 9,641 Westcoast, if you want to make a doc strange speed upgrade, I recommend going for Infinite instead. There are some feats here and there that could be used. But remember, a lot of them are with amps/prep time so it won't scale to his base base base speed.

MarvelFanatic119

Messages 1,733 Reaction score 902

Westcoast5005 said: The repetition are is past self as he is moving so fast Also even if that's just is astral form it should still count to his speed rating Also didn't Mordo state that his physical form is above his astral form? Click to expand...

It doesn't say that in the panel itself, not to mention I don't think that alone could give a speed rating. It would not scale to anyone expect Strange's astral form, and maybe other people who use them. It would be a separate rating from his normal one. He also need the Ancient One's assistance there in travelling through time, once he lost the light he was helpless to do anything and trapped in the past as warned by the Ancient One, if he was immeasurable he would be able to travel through time himself without assistance or guidance from someone else. Not sure, not familiar enough with Doctor Strange to answer that.

Confluctor

VS Battles Retired Messages 12,683 Reaction score 9,641

Westcoast5005 said: Also didn't Mordo state that his physical form is above his astral form Click to expand...

I don't think so. We have more evidence for astral > physical

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

MarvelFanatic119 said: It doesn't say that in the panel itself, not to mention I don't think that alone could give a speed rating. It would not scale to anyone expect Strange's astral form, and maybe other people who use them. It would be a separate rating from his normal one. He also need the Ancient One's assistance there in travelling through time, once he lost the light he was helpless to do anything and trapped in the past as warned by the Ancient One, if he was immeasurable he would be able to travel through time himself without assistance or guidance from someone else. Not sure, not familiar enough with Doctor Strange to answer that. Click to expand...

The reason he needed ancient one assistance was because that was the first time he traveled through time. when he was falling to the chaos he managed to illuminate the way back to the present himself. Also In another issue him and Mordo were having race through time and space without the help of the ancient one. Also the only characters I wanted to scale from this was eternity as he as always been considered far superior than doctor strange.

MarvelFanatic119

Messages 1,733 Reaction score 902 You should have included those scans also then. Also why scale to Eternity? That just seems unnecessary as he's already Omnipresent.

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

MarvelFanatic119 said: You should have included those scans also then. Also why scale to Eternity? That just seems unnecessary as he's already Omnipresent. Click to expand...

Omnipresent isn't a speed.

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397 Also is m body eternity omnipresent?.

MarvelFanatic119

Messages 1,733 Reaction score 902 Considering his place and nature, he would have that by default without needing to scale to anyone.

Oliver_de_jesus

He/Him Messages 25,758 Reaction score 18,046

Westcoast5005 said: Also is m body eternity omnipresent?. Click to expand...

I mean, M body eternity is just universal omnipresent

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397 Ok

LordTracer

He/Him VS Battles Thread Moderator Messages 16,242 Reaction score 17,694 I’m pretty much in agreement with what everyone else has said so far. The first scan doesn’t qualify for immeasurable speed. I don’t see how the second one would qualify either. Aside from the fact that it would only scale to Strange’s astral form, Strange explicitly gets stuck in the past because he doesn’t have the Ancient One opening a pathway for him anymore. That kinda shows that he can’t just time travel via sheer speed. Third one again only applies to astral forms, it literally says “time and space are meaningless when they are in their ectoplasmic form.” Also it stated that he changed the scene of battle “within seconds,” which implies that it happened in a finite amount of time. Not immeasurable.

Antvasima

Maintenance worker

He/Him VS Battles Head Bureaucrat Bureaucrat Administrator Messages 174,406 Reaction score 85,725 LordTracer makes sense to me.

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

LordTracer said: I’m pretty much in agreement with what everyone else has said so far. The first scan doesn’t qualify for immeasurable speed. I don’t see how the second one would qualify either. Aside from the fact that it would only scale to Strange’s astral form, Strange explicitly gets stuck in the past because he doesn’t have the Ancient One opening a pathway for him anymore. That kinda shows that he can’t just time travel via sheer speed. Third one again only applies to astral forms, it literally says “time and space are meaningless when they are in their ectoplasmic form.” Also it stated that he changed the scene of battle “within seconds,” which implies that it happened in a finite amount of time. Not immeasurable. Click to expand...

He was stuck in the past because he couldn't see the light to the future then he later used the eye of agommoto illuminate the way to the present. Also the ancient one helps him because this was the first time he ever traveled through time. And so what if is only is ectoplasmic form that scales it's still immeasurable speed Also that "within seconds" statement isn't a debunk and it happening I'm a finite amount of time isn't debunk because he can appear anywhere in Time and space in a finite amount of time. Also in another issue him and Mordo raced across time and space in there ectoplasmic form.

LordTracer

He/Him VS Battles Thread Moderator Messages 16,242 Reaction score 17,694

Westcoast5005 said: He was stuck in the past because he couldn't see the light to the future then he later used the eye illuminate the way to the present And so what if is only is ectoplasmic form that scales it's still immeasurable speed Click to expand...

You definitely should’ve included this in the OP. I suppose that seems fine, but only for the speed of his astral form. His base speed wouldn’t scale.

Westcoast5005 said: Also that "within seconds" statement isn't a debunk and it happening I'm a finite amount of time isn't debunk because he can appear anywhere in Time and space in a finite amount of time. Click to expand...

Your scan doesn’t show this, at all, nor is it stated. If it took him seconds to travel to the ocean, that is blatantly not immeasurable speed. It’s not even infinite speed.

LordTracer

He/Him VS Battles Thread Moderator Messages 16,242 Reaction score 17,694

Westcoast5005 said: Also in another issue him and Mordo raced across time and space in there ectoplasmic form. Click to expand...

Can you provide the issue where this happens?

Westcoast5005

Messages 1,290 Reaction score 397

LordTracer said: You definitely should’ve included this in the OP. I suppose that seems fine, but only for the speed of his astral form. His base speed wouldn’t scale. Your scan doesn’t show this, at all, nor is it stated. If it took him seconds to travel to the ocean, that is blatantly not immeasurable speed. It’s not even infinite speed. Click to expand...

His base speed wouldn't scale I suppose that's fine. The scan was to add additional information that he his unbound by time and space.

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