Drilling Out Bolts - The Slow Bit Question? | Adventure Rider

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Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Soberman001, Oct 6, 2011.

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1. Soberman001, Oct 6, 2011 #1

   Soberman001 Been here awhile

   Joined: Jul 13, 2008 Oddometer: 774 Location: New Jersey

   Guys Yesterday, I had the pleasure of trying to drill out a steel M6 allen bolt on my Aprilia. I have a 18V Dewalt drill which seems to work just fine and a set of high end Dewalt mult-purpose drill bits. I don't use the bits for much more than general houshold use (wood, drywall, etc) and they are 3 years old. After 5-8 mins I was making very little progress on the head of this bolt using a bit about 75% as big as the bolt (I am trying just to get the head off). My questions: 1. Is there a technique for drilling bolts like start with a small bit, and keep growing the hole with larger bits? or 2. Do I have super dull bits that are laughing at me? Thanks

   #1
2. Wreck™, Oct 6, 2011 #2

   Wreck™ Wreck™

   Joined: Feb 9, 2007 Oddometer: 409 Location: Riverton, NJ

   Stainless fastener or plain alloy steel?

   #2
3. _cy_, Oct 6, 2011 #3

   _cy_ Long timer

   Joined: Sep 26, 2011 Oddometer: 6,859 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

   key to drilling out broken studs/bolts is to start with a small SHARP bit. preference is to use a veritable speed drill, so you can start the hole slowly. it's imperative to start hole in center to have a hope of good results. center punch if possible, most times broken stud is too small. slowly start hole and center it best you can. don't drill very deep yet. start tilling drill bit towards center, keep working at until drill bit is centered. don't drill straight down, until bit is perfectly centered. best to start with a small bit, then go up as needed, until hole is big enough for an ez out. Snap-on and Mac makes reverse drill bits too. be sure to put lots of penetrating oil before trying to turn bolt. really stubborn studs need to be progressively drilled out until threads starts to show. then stud will collapse and come out. again key to a successful outcome is to use sharp bits and drill your hole dead center. have used above technique successfully removing LOTS of broken bolts. on frozen bolts with broken heads. those almost always requires being drilled out to threads. if you keep drill bit centered, you can stop just when reaching threads. without damaging threads. keep in mind if bolt was stuck hard enough to break off bolt head. then drilling a hole for an ez out will probably not work. likely end up with a broken ez out inside your bolt. then you have a bigger problem of having a hardened tool broken inside your bolt. on frozen studs go easy when first trying ez out... knowing more than likely stud will have to be drilled completely out to edge to threads.

   #3
4. PFFOG, Oct 6, 2011 #4

   PFFOG Richard Alps-aholic Supporter

   Joined: Aug 19, 2005 Oddometer: 9,324 Location: Western NY, further from NYC than 6 entire states

   what cy said

   #4
5. Soberman001, Oct 6, 2011 #5

   Soberman001 Been here awhile

   Joined: Jul 13, 2008 Oddometer: 774 Location: New Jersey

   Thanks boys!!! what the hell is an ez out? where do I get one of them little fkers? I will go back to a progressive (small to large) approach and try it. To answer the question above, it is a alloy metal not stainless.

   #5
6. PFFOG, Oct 6, 2011 #6

   PFFOG Richard Alps-aholic Supporter

   Joined: Aug 19, 2005 Oddometer: 9,324 Location: Western NY, further from NYC than 6 entire states

   If the bolt is seized and will not back out DO NOT use an ez-out, unless you want to triple your work. When (not if ) you break the ez-out off, you now made all your drills ineffective and will have to resort to a slow grinding process. Use the dead center/progressive method and don't be in a hurry, slow drill speeds, sharp bit, just enough pressure to make it cut, and lube. As soon as you start hitting threads, even if off center take a pick, or small needle punch and work out the remnants.

   #6
7. Hammerspur, Oct 6, 2011 #7

   Hammerspur Long timer

   Joined: Nov 6, 2006 Oddometer: 1,138 Location: Cranston, RI

   Soberman001 said: ↑

   ...what the hell is an ez out?Click to expand...

   They are Screw Extractors... left hand threaded to burrow deeper in pre-drilled hole as you turn left to loosen and remove broken fastener. Turn judiciously as they are hard and rather brittle especially the cheap ones. The smaller sizes are easy to snap off inside the drilled hole compounding the difficulty of your predicament... the metal is definitely harder than HS steel drill bits! Soberman001 said: ↑

   where do I get one of them little fkers?Click to expand...

   http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=809&PMITEM=317-1817 http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?vName=Tools&keyword=screw+extractors&viewItems=25&autoRedirect=true&redirectType=CAT_REC&prop17=screw%20extractors http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=screw+extractors

   #7
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8. OldPete, Oct 6, 2011 #8

   OldPete Be aware

   Joined: Oct 6, 2007 Oddometer: 18,337 Location: SoSoCal

   If the drill is not cutting and just generating heat... This can/will work harden the surface of the bolt/cap screw making it very hard to get "a bite." Buy and use Rapid-Tap. It can be used on all metals.

   #8
9. sailah, Oct 6, 2011 #9

   sailah Lampin' it

   Joined: Aug 12, 2005 Oddometer: 7,824 Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap

   What the other guys said. Regarding the bits, if you've been plowing away in any sort of bolt on a motorcycle for the time you stated, your bit is most likely been heated and effed to the point of no return. Small bits like that are easily overheated especially if you didn't lube it. Pick up a can of rapid tap or similar at fastenal or grainger. Hell motor oil is better than nothing. Keep the speed down. I was taught to start with a small bit and work up in size corresponding to the width of the split point. Hard to describe on my phone here, but basically use a bigger bit with a chisel point that will fit in the hole you just drilled. While you are at the store buy numerous smaller bits, I go through them constantly that way you don't have to halt progress for a store run. I have also started using center drills in my regular drill to start the hole. They are very short and rigid which is what you want when starting adifficult hole. And def center punch something like that to keep the bit from walking

   #9 MagyarMan, FadinFast, dtysdalx2 and 2 others like this.
10. Tweaker, Oct 6, 2011 #10

    Tweaker ...

    Joined: May 10, 2002 Oddometer: 12,347

    Soberman001 said: ↑

    a set of high end Dewalt mult-purpose drill bits. I don't use the bits for much more than general houshold use (wood, drywall, etc) and they are 3 years old.Click to expand...

    I went through this last week. Same bits. Buy better bits.

    #10
11. Benesesso, Oct 6, 2011 #11

    Benesesso Long timer

    Joined: Jul 29, 2008 Oddometer: 9,893 Location: West of Phoenix, Arizona

    Hammerspur said: ↑

    They are Screw Extractors... left hand threaded to burrow deeper in pre-drilled hole as you turn left to loosen and remove broken fastener. Turn judiciously as they are hard and rather brittle especially the cheap ones. The smaller sizes are easy to snap off inside the drilled hole compounding the difficulty of your predicament... the metal is definitely harder than HS steel drill bits!Click to expand...

    Er, no, they're softer than a typical HS drill bit. Non-stainless allen bolts are usually harder than grade 8 bolts, so you will probably need carbide to cut it. If you can heat it to ~1350-1400 F (red hot) for a few minutes AND let it cool slowly until black, it will be soft.

    #11
12. tommu56, Oct 6, 2011 #12

    tommu56 Long timer

    Joined: Sep 11, 2011 Oddometer: 1,706 Location: waterville pa

    have you guys ever tried these we use them at work http://www.sockitout.com/metric_sockethead.html

    #12
13. rgoers, Oct 6, 2011 #13

    rgoers Been here awhile

    Joined: Apr 27, 2011 Oddometer: 372 Location: Northern Utah

    Good drill bits are hard to find, if not impossible, at home improvement stores. Having a brother who is a machinist helps a lot, as they have access to decent drill bits. Dewalt bits are not particularly "good" bits - Milwaukee bits are better. Look to see where your bits were made. If it says "China", all bets are off. Someone else mentioned it, but it bears repeating... USE LUBE while drilling. Nothing will prolong the life of a drill bit better than using *ANY* type of lubricant while drilling (anything is *way* better than nothing). If it smokes, you're overheating the bit. Stop, wait, and go at it again in a couple minutes. Start small, and go up from there. More often than not, a bolt breaks from over-tightening it, not from the actual removal process. In those cases, the threads are not locked/rusted/jammed and an easy-out works just fine. If the bolt head broke because of rust, etc., then heat may help break it loose while using an easy-out. As a last resort on stubborn bolts, drilling to the threads and picking out the bolt remains, does work, but usually damages at least some of the threads.

    #13 3shot likes this.
14. LuciferMutt, Oct 6, 2011 #14

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

    Joined: Aug 19, 2008 Oddometer: 22,310 Location: New(er) Mexico

    rgoers said: ↑

    Someone else mentioned it, but it bears repeating... USE LUBE while drilling. Nothing will prolong the life of a drill bit better than using *ANY* type of lubricant while drilling (anything is *way* better than nothing). If it smokes, you're overheating the bit. Stop, wait, and go at it again in a couple minutes. s.Click to expand...

    True, except for the smoking part. Most any oil will start smoking long before the bit is overheating. Just keep it wet.

    #14
15. PFFOG, Oct 6, 2011 #15

    PFFOG Richard Alps-aholic Supporter

    Joined: Aug 19, 2005 Oddometer: 9,324 Location: Western NY, further from NYC than 6 entire states

    tommu56 said: ↑

    have you guys ever tried these we use them at work http://www.sockitout.com/metric_sockethead.htmlClick to expand...

    Just caught the fact that it was an allen head. Assuming the internal hex is stripped, BEFORE you drill the head off, go get GOOD set of torx bits, and just drive a slightly larger size into the stripped head, they will make their own "grooves" to bite then get one of the impact screwdrivers, and use it to turn the bit. The impact prevents cam out, and the blow helps loosen the bolt. I have even ground a perfectly good torx bit to put a taper on it to drive it in the bolt head Drilling should be LAST resort. Impact driver

    #15 nk14zp, Carlos M, FadinFast and 1 other person like this.
16. anonny, Oct 6, 2011 #16

    anonny What could go wrong?

    Joined: Mar 21, 2007 Oddometer: 7,566 Location: Beautiful Revelstoke BC

    For allen heads I have a set of eazy outs that are tapered and hardened and square. I just drill (if need be) and hammer one in that fits and turn it out with a wrench.

    #16
17. BlairBear, Oct 6, 2011 #17

    BlairBear Been here awhile

    Joined: Apr 18, 2009 Oddometer: 149 Location: GA

    Go out and find some good bits ( 135 degree, spilt tip ). You sould start with a drill about .100 diameter. WITH lube, med. to high pressure, LOW SPEED ! These bits will cost you a couple of bucks each. Once you center drill the bolt jump to the size that will work with the easyout you get. the same kind of bit. If you do not keep it lubed, if you don't it will not take any time at all before you throw the bit out ! If you can scrounge up some BEE'S WAX , I have found it always has worked the best for lube when drilling by hand. You drill for a short time ,pull the bit out, and stick the bit into the wax. The bit will melt into the wax, then back to drilling. This has worked well for me with anything from 4160 steel to titanium fasteners that I have drill out by hand!

    #17
18. the_gr8t_waldo, Oct 6, 2011 #18

    the_gr8t_waldo Long timer

    Joined: Feb 28, 2006 Oddometer: 2,743 Location: tacoma warshington

    if youre NOT making any progress, and after 5-8 minutes it's assured- you now have a dull drill bit! it could of been dull when you started out, or the screw/bolt is hardened ..easyest thing is to sharpen the bit. as needed. ..once i was head of a maintance shop, and one of the other dept.workers asked to borrow a drill- he was drilling some copper alloy buss bars. this was about one hour into the shift..at first break we meet up and he was telling how hard that buss bar turned out to be..but he was makeing progress! i didn't have and time to stop by so the next time i saw him was lunch (aprox5 hours into the shift) he was bemoaning how hard it was to drill these buss bars!! about an hour later i stoped by his shop. he was still there, and still on his first hole, and pretty well exhausted/disgusted at that point. but the drillmotor was still spinning away. i looked and the drill motor and sure enough, it was in reverse! man, i sure hope you're not his son!

    #18
19. CrustyAPO, Oct 6, 2011 #19

    CrustyAPO Long timer Super Supporter

    Joined: May 7, 2008 Oddometer: 4,167 Location: New York state (unfortunately)

    I like using high sulphur thread cutting oil for pipe threading machines. When you get the right amount of pressure on the bit, you will get a nice "curl" or continuous chip coming from the bit. Back out of the hole every so often and add more oil and keep at it. Another trick an old friend taught me. Go out and buy a box of paraffin canning wax. It comes in slabs, or blocks, get the slabs. Cut the slabs into 1" wide strips. Heat up the fastener enough until you can melt the wax just by touching the stick to it. Go ahead and use whatever lube to drill out the broken bolt. The wax gets wayyyy thinner than most penetrating oils and wicks down the threads by capillary action. That trick has saved me more times than I can count. Works good on stubborn O2 sensors too.

    #19
20. henrymartin, Oct 6, 2011 #20

    henrymartin Mr. Tourguide no more.

    Joined: Sep 11, 2010 Oddometer: 3,853 Location: South of the Great North Woods

    PFFOG said: ↑

    If the bolt is seized and will not back out DO NOT use an ez-out, unless you want to triple your work. When (not if ) you break the ez-out off, you now made all your drills ineffective and will have to resort to a slow grinding process. Use the dead center/progressive method and don't be in a hurry, slow drill speeds, sharp bit, just enough pressure to make it cut, and lube. As soon as you start hitting threads, even if off center take a pick, or small needle punch and work out the remnants.Click to expand...

    Went through this a few weeks ago. Pain, pain, pain, and the EZout only came out with a carbide cutter action (slow and painful). Anyway, what saved me were left drill bits. One bolt came out when drilling, the other did not, but that one was continuously drilled until I could get the threads out. Good luck

    #20

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