Firebrick Recipe??? - Insulation And Refractories - I Forge Iron

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firebrick recipe???

By switchjv January 4, 2010 in Insulation and Refractories

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switchjv

Posted January 4, 2010

switchjv

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• Locationnew mexico

Posted January 4, 2010

hi, im new to the site and i am about to build a gas forge. i was on you tube and saw a guy who said he made his own firebricks out of cement, vermiculite and ash. if anyone has made their own bricks out of this recipe, what are the amounts of each ingredient? i guess i could just go out and buy them , but what is the fun in that?

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criminalhate

Posted January 4, 2010

criminalhate

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• LocationWestland Mi

Posted January 4, 2010

Hello I would say although you could make your own refractory and cast a fire brick I doubt you would be able to get a home made refractory that could hold up as well as a purchased fire brick. If your looking to make it because you can't source any locally then that's another story. A good source of extremely expensive refractory cement is in the heating and cooling section of home depot/lowes/ probably anywhere with some hardware repair type things. Is furnace cement I built a tin can forge (like a one brick forge) out of it and it seems to be holding up quite well. It's expensive though I paid $16 for a half gallon but it is rated to 3000 degrees. My 2 cents at least.

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pkrankow

Posted January 4, 2010

pkrankow

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Posted January 4, 2010

cement based products disintegrate at heat as it releases its water, sometimes explosively. Using a high fire clay with a grog added to it would be best. After it is fully fired it is stable, and has no water bound into it. Kaolin and porcelain clays work well. That said, using a ceramic wool product is not very expensive. Kaowool and duraboard are two such products. They will work better as an insulator and allow higher temperatures inside the forge with lower forge body temperature. Zoellerforge.com and Anvilfire.com have reasonable prices on ceramic wool, but better prices may an be found if you are search Ebay and such. Phil

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switchjv

Posted January 4, 2010

switchjv

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Posted January 4, 2010

thanks for the input. I messaged Mrironman1979 on you tube and he gave me this. 2 parts Masons mix(or fire clay) 2 parts vermiculite 1 part ash Mix all ingredients (with water) to a thick cake frosting consistency. i would assume that this mixture would then be poured into moulds. on his videos he shows how to make a R.R. spike tomowhawk. He uses a home built gas forge with his Firebricks, it works quite well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvGA8w_By3Q&feature=related

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• 2 years later...

Eadwulf Greysteel

Posted July 7, 2012

Eadwulf Greysteel

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Posted July 7, 2012

Warning! Do NOT PUT Vermiculite in the fire bricks. Other than being taught by my father(since I could hold up a 3lb Double Jack), as a Blacksmith, my mother also taught me some rudimentary gardening and as Vermiculite is designed to hold in moisture, a quality which you do not want in a forge as this can cause some rather nasty steam explosions, (I.E. I still have a brace of scars on my body from one such explosion). The one that should be used is Perlite, used because it takes heat quite a while to get through it. (Refractory). I having recently built my own forge as my fathers idea of a right of passage, used my fathers secret recipe to create the bricks and slabs of refractory materials. However , as I will not divulge my future son's inheritance, I have created another recipe which I have tested and have found quite suitable for a coal or gas forge. 1 part by volume of Perlite (NOT VERMICULITE)2 part by volume of Fire Clay (Refractory Clay)1 part by volume of Sand (Silica, as pure as possible)1 part by volume of Ash (Finely Ground)1 part by volume of Portland Cement (Mason's Cement Doesn't Work/ Nor does Concrete)The cake icing analogy works well add enough and form molds to pour the mixture intoPack well in and let cure for at least 4 days( 1 extra for caution) Then use a mortar mixed with about (3-5) of the fire bricks after curing crushed in to make the mortar itself refractoryLet set and harden (3 days)You now have a forge with no tuyere (the air pipe for bellows).And yes for your information I refuse to go modernIt takes longer but I use only hand tools. ~May you die with swords in your hands

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• 10 years later...

KRPDM

Posted May 11, 2023

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Posted May 11, 2023

With advice like EG's I can see why this post has been dormant for over 10 years. 

Firstly, vermiculite is just as fire resistant as perlite. They are BOTH exceptional at absorbing water. And unless you're referring to an almighty creator of everything then no-one "designed" vermiculite, it's a naturally occuring mineral. I'm not saying wet vermiculite won't cause a steam explosion (and I'm sorry to hear of your accident) but such an incident can easily be avoided by slowly curing your diy bricks, gradually increasing the temp until finally reaching the firing temp. By that stage all water should have been purged. 

Secondly, I'm pretty sure readers would know that if a recipe calls for cement then they would know not to go and add some aggregate for good measure. If the recipe required that the cement be made into  concrete it would mention it. 

Speaking of recipes why not just keep it simple and make your firebricks out of sand and sodium silicate (an almost 100% silica brick) if all you need is a refractory material. Or add vermiculite (or perlite) if you need insulative qualities as well. To increase durability I coat them with an aluminum oxide based render, but this is definitely not required. 

IMHO... 

 

 

 

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Charles R. Stevens

Posted May 11, 2023

Charles R. Stevens

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Posted May 11, 2023

Silica sand will melt at forge temp. We call it slag.  Sawdust and fire clay in a 1 part to 2 part ratio then fired after completely drying makes a passable fire brick. The sawdust will burn out leaving voids. Otherwise commercial grog.  now there are 3 types of fire bricks. Hard non insulitive, soft insulitive and hard insulitive. All take a different grog (non expansive material) for the first one wants  ground fired fire clay, the second somthing heat resistant and airy like per light, vermiculite or expanded clay. The last somthing that leaves voids like saw dust or soap bubbles.   

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Frosty

Posted May 11, 2023

Frosty

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• Curmudgeon
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• Location Meadow Lakes Alaska

Posted May 11, 2023

Sand and sodium silicate might make firebrick suitable for a fire pit but wouldn't stand a chance in a propane forge or in flame contact in a solid fuel forge.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Irondragon Forge ClayWorks

Posted May 12, 2023

Irondragon Forge ClayWorks

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• 2023 Donor
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• Location Carroll County, Arkansas U.S.A.

Posted May 12, 2023

I have used both Perlite and Vermiculite in propane and coal forges. From my experience with both, I can say Perlite is far superior in both types of forge.

 

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

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KRPDM

Posted May 12, 2023

KRPDM

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Posted May 12, 2023

Well that seems to be a resounding vote in favour of4 perlite. Thanks everyone. 

Not sure I'm ready to replace the vermiculite based refractory I'm currently using in my old school solid fuel forge as so far I can't fault it. But if it does fail then it will most definitely be replaced with perlite in the next iteration. 

Every day is an opportunity to learn new things from people who know more than you do - me

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Frosty

Posted May 12, 2023

Frosty

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• Curmudgeon
• • 50.8k
• Location Meadow Lakes Alaska

Posted May 12, 2023

Why put any clay lightener in a solid fuel forge liner? I've been using whatever clay was handy rammed hard in mine for something like 3 decades now. It' fire clay and sand now but that's because I picked up a sack cheap at a yard sale 20 years ago. 

Frosty The Lucky. 

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