GPU Mining No Longer Profitable After Ethereum Merge - Slashdot

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Public Terminal Forgot your password? Close binspamdupenotthebestofftopicslownewsdaystalestupid freshfunnyinsightfulinterestingmaybe offtopicflamebaittrollredundantoverrated insightfulinterestinginformativefunnyunderrated descriptive typodupeerror MongoDB Atlas: Multi-cloud, modern database on AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud. Get access to our most high performance version ever, with faster and easier scaling at lower cost. × 166231823 story Just one day after the Ethereum Merge, where the cryptocoin successfully switched from Proof of Work (PoW) to Proof of Stake (PoS), profitability of GPU mining has completely collapsed. Tom's Hardware reports: That means the best graphics cards should finally be back where they belonged, in your gaming PC, just as god intended. That's a quick drop, considering yesterday there were still a few cryptocurrencies that were technically profitable. Looking at WhatToMine, and using the standard $0.10 per kWh, the best-case results are with the GeForce RTX 3090 and Radeon RX 6800 and 6800 XT. Those are technically showing slightly positive results, to the tune of around $0.06 per day after power costs. However, that doesn't factor in the cost of the PC power, or the wear and tear on your graphics card. Even at a slightly positive net result, it would still take over 20 years to break even on the cost of an RX 6800. We say that tongue-in-cheek, because if there's one thing we know for certain, it's that no one can predict what the cryptocurrency market will look like even one year out, never mind 20 years in the future. It's a volatile market, and there are definitely lots of groups and individuals hoping to figure out a way to Make GPU Mining Profitable Again (MGMPA hats inbound...) Of the 21 current generation graphics cards from the AMD RX 6000-series and the Nvidia RTX 30-series, only five are theoretically profitable right now, and those are all just barely in the black. This is using data from NiceHash and WhatToMine, so perhaps there are ways to tune other GPUs to get into the net positive, but the bottom line is that no one should be using GPUs for mining right now, and certainly not buying more GPUs for mining purposes. [You can see a full list of the current profitability of the current generation graphics cards here.]

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• Not dead yet (Score:5, Insightful)

  by leathered ( 780018 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @08:11PM (#62888527)

  Lots of evidence that miners are turning to other ponzi coins. Ethereum Classic, arguably the 'true' Ethereum, has seen a surge in its hash rate in recent days.

  You also have to consider that many miners steal electricity, or mine at a loss in the hope that number goes up in the future.

  Sadly we can't celebrate the death of GPU mining just yet.

  Share twitter facebook

  • Re: (Score:3)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) writes:

    Well, the more sketchy things get, the less the "greater fool" approach works. Lets hope all these assholes go bankrupt soon.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kaenneth ( 82978 ) writes:

      Last person to accept the new reality is the greatest fool of all.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 ) writes:

        What new reality? That old scams, dressed up prettily in new clothes still work? That most people still have no clue how reality works? That there are lot sand lots of fools? Here is news for you: That is the old reality, in fact the ancient one.

        • • Re: (Score:2)

            by gweihir ( 88907 ) writes:

            Ah you are about pushing that deranged fantasy. Well, I think you should see a shrink to get that disconnect from reality looked at. Or maybe you are just trying to pump because you are one of the scum trying to get rich quick by defrauding others.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by blackomegax ( 807080 ) writes: Using ad hominems in a debate? No actual response to my point? Why the low-value comment? Try actual debate in good faith for once.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by drnb ( 2434720 ) writes: If you wish to argue that fiat has no intrinsic value then the same argument can be made for virtual. No intrinsic value, no salvage value. However with fiat you are more likely to find merchants willing to accept it. And no, few merchants are willing to accept a virtual, even bitcoin. At most some will engage a BTC payment processor who will pay them in fiat, the merchant never seeing or touching a bitcoin. Meaning no risk to instability, their accounting and pricing remains in fiat, etc. And no, this

  • Re: (Score:3)

    by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) writes:

    Few people mine where power costs 10 cents (the number used in TFA to calculate "breakeven").

    There are plenty of places with retail power at 4 cents and wholesale at half of that. That's where the miners are.

    • Re: Not dead yet (Score:4, Informative)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @09:08PM (#62888623) Homepage Journal

      In other places there's now more money in selling electricity than mining it.

      Parent Share twitter facebook

  • Re:Not dead yet (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Joce640k ( 829181 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @09:55PM (#62888705) Homepage

    You also have to consider that many miners steal electricity

    This. They're using company electricity, college campus electricity, their parent's electricity, ...

    Anywhere there's a socket that they don't personally pay the bill for they'll go right on doing it.

    Parent Share twitter facebook

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:

    Are buying new GPUs, or just trying to get some use out of the ones they already have?

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) writes: They're trying and they're spending money to try and pump them up but so far it's really not working. What you have is a lot of businesses that we're making a lot of money and now aren't falling for some costs. I can't say I blame them since some of these guys are looking at getting regular day jobs. What's hilarious is as a thread floating around a guy who bought a bunch of gpus recently and somehow didn't know this was coming. Do you want from making several hundred dollars a month to less than a dolla

  • Re: (Score:3)

    by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes:

    You also have to consider that many miners steal electricity

    The word "many" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. One could say many drivers don't obey the road rules but in the grand scheme of society it works rather well.

    Same here. Many miners are still mining, but that doesn't change the fact mining plummeted the last few days, and it doesn't require a complete stop of mining for there to be massive repercussions in the GPU market. Heck we've seen a massive change this year already before the merge.

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by real_nickname ( 6922224 ) writes:

    mine at a loss in the hope that number goes up in the future.

    If you are mining at loss and hold, why you don't buy and hold instead? It seems a lot easier.

    Sadly we can't celebrate the death of GPU mining just yet.

    Big scale GPU mining looks dead to me. You may find short lived mining opportunity among shitcoins but they will never have enough transactions to absorb the same level of miners ETH had. GPU prices drop seems to validate GPU mining death.

  • Re:Not dead yet (Score:4, Informative)

    by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) writes: on Saturday September 17, 2022 @08:53AM (#62889347) Homepage Journal

    I see lots of GPUs hitting eBay already.

    One of the reasons EVGA cited for effectively exiting the GPU market is that Nvidia didn't do enough to stop miners, which made the price even more volatile and meant they ended up competing with eBay selling used GPUs for less than half of what their new ones cost.

    Parent Share twitter facebook

  • Re: (Score:3)

    by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

    Miners have no significant impact on cost of each coin. Investors are the ones who decide that because they're the one that trade tokens for actual money. You can have every graphic card in the world mine some random no name coin tomorrow, and it wouldn't increase its price as long as there aren't enough people that are willing to pay actual money for said no name coin.

    And investors already made their choice on Ethereum. They're staying with ETH. ETHW, the "proof of work fork" is rapidly dying on the vine a

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) writes: Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by blackomegax ( 807080 ) writes: I'll keep my old vega64 mining in the basement this winter since there's no heat vents down there and it makes it livable. Costs exactly the same as running a space heater, without the payout. the payout cuts the costs down even if it's not fully paying the elec

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) writes:

    It's still nice to hear crypto is suffering. Also, thanks for being the first on topic post of the entire thread! Hopefully crypto continues to suffer and people will avoid it going forward.

  • Not mining at a loss (Score:2)

    by drnb ( 2434720 ) writes:

    ... or mine at a loss in the hope that number goes up in the future ...

    Not really. Even most newb miners understand that they would acquire more coins if they take the money they would have spent on electricity and just buy the coins directly. Some might consider offsets, like in the winter the heating of their room/office. Yet again, they will typically know when just buying regular heating is less expensive. For GPU mining to continue beyond some hobbyists / coin creators some new "profitable" speculative instrument will have to arise. Like etherium did in 2020/2021. GP

  • • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kaenneth ( 82978 ) writes:

      If you have a contract to buy X amount of power per month. If you have to pay for the kilowatt hours even if you don't use them, you might as well use it to reduce losses.

• So 50% attack is possible? (Score:2)

  by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) writes: With so much of computing power exiting the mining pool, who controls the public ledger? Can someone control 50%?

  • Re:So 50% attack is possible? (Score:4, Informative)

    by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @09:01PM (#62888597)

    With so much of computing power exiting the mining pool, who controls the public ledger? Can someone control 50%?

    Ethereum is moving from POW to POS. So mining no longer matters for controlling the ledger. You need to own a big stockpile to gain control.

    Parent Share twitter facebook

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Joce640k ( 829181 ) writes:

      You need to own a big stockpile to gain control.

      But it can be done.

      • Re:So 50% attack is possible? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Joce640k ( 829181 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @10:00PM (#62888713) Homepage

        ...but if anybody did buy enough to take over the ledger the price would crash and they'd lose their money.

        It's Mutually Assured Destruction that keeps it safe, not math.

        Parent Share twitter facebook

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by djinn6 ( 1868030 ) writes:

          I think if anyone does take over the ledger, they would do so secretly (e.g. multiple accounts that combine to have > 50% stake) and would try everything they can to maintain the price and make sure it gets used everywhere. Sort of like what the Fed does with the dollar. That person might even give themselves the ability to create and destroy Ethers just to maintain near zero inflation. If the stability of Ethereum allows it to become the world reserve currency, then "rich" would not even begin to descri

      • Re:So 50% attack is possible? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @10:06PM (#62888719)

        But it can be done.

        It can be done for about $90B at current prices.

        Most people with $90B have little interest in destroying their own wealth for no particular reason.

        Parent Share twitter facebook

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Opportunist ( 166417 ) writes:

          Erh.... have you seen what Bezos has been doing lately?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) writes:

            Building a flying dong and circling the planet with it is hardly destroying wealth for no particular reason. Heck if I had his money I'd do the same except my space ship would be in the shape of a giant middle finger.

        • Re: So 50% attack is possible? (Score:2)

          by Corbets ( 169101 ) writes:

          Unless your name is Tehol Beddict. But he was rather exceptional.

          Oh, and fictional. That might be relevant.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:

      Ethereum is moving from POW to POS.

      One might argue it was a POS before.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Carewolf ( 581105 ) writes:

        And entirely unsuited for Point-Of-Sale both before and after.

  • Re: So 50% attack is possible? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by NagrothAgain ( 4130865 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @09:16PM (#62888643) Basically the Whales and Exchanges because they hold such a large amount of EthCoin. In totally unrelated news, expect to see a sudden influx of used GPUs hitting the market. Many on Amazon, in knock-off packaging freshly shrinkwrapped and advertised as "new." Parent Share twitter facebook

• The effort was never profitable. (Score:2)

  by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) writes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

• Ethereum is not the only Crypto (Score:2)

  by srg33 ( 1095679 ) writes:

  Accoring to Forbes:1. Bitcoin (BTC) Market cap: $383 billion (Still Proof-of-Work)2. Ethereum (ETH) Market cap: $192 billion (Now Proof-of-Stake)etc.

  So, I do not believe that the "profitability of GPU mining has completely collapsed." Bitcoin MIGHT have plateau'd, but . . .

  • Re:Ethereum is not the only Crypto (Score:5, Interesting)

    by avandesande ( 143899 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @08:51PM (#62888573) Journal Bitcoin is not mined with GPU, they are mined with purpose built ASIC machines Parent Share twitter facebook

    • Re: Ethereum is not the only Crypto (Score:2)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 ) writes:

      Only as long as it's profitable.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

        One of the main reasons why Bitcoin held as long as it did/does is that hash rate is constantly adjusting to how much computing power there is in the total mining pool.

        I.e. if it becomes unprofitable to mine it for everyone, some people will get out and remaining people will get more bitcoin for same amount of hashing, bringing them back to profitability.

  • Re:Ethereum is not the only Crypto (Score:4, Informative)

    by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @09:06PM (#62888617)

    Bitcoin hasn't been profitably mined on GPUs for many years. Bitcoin is mined on ASIC rigs.

    Also, the value of Bitcoin may decline as environmentally conscious drug dealers and extortionists switch to Ethereum.

    Parent Share twitter facebook

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

      It's worth remembering that ETH's main idea was to make an ASIC resistant coin, because large scale miners using ASICs were becoming a bottleneck in many ways in Bitcoin.

      It was an idea that completely ran away from the developers, trashing ETH's reputation among one of the main tech investor groups of "wealthy IT nerds who are into PC games".

• From PoW to PoS (Score:2, Informative)

  by ballpoint ( 192660 ) writes:

  From Prisoner of (energy) War to Piece of Shit.They aren't even hiding it anymore.

• Good! (Score:2)

  by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) writes: For decades, gamers and CAD/Science workstation owners have paid to keep video cards technology on the cutting edge, and keep them affordable. Blockchain, other than being a subversive form of money, destabilized the video card market, made video cards both expensive and scarce, as well as wasting more power than a gamer would ever use.

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by Rei ( 128717 ) writes:

    The timing for this change however is perfect for everyone who's into AI art to get good GPUs on the cheap.

• Re: (Score:2)

  by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) writes: Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by DrMrLordX ( 559371 ) writes:

    Um, China could probably have taken control of Bitcoin temporarily by seizing mining farms back when there were a lot more of them in mainland China. Before they were run out of business.

    The PRC opted to take no such action.

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

    Not only could governments take control of it should they have cared enough, but there was at least one event when a single mining pool de facto took control of it (had over half of the total hash rate of the network, at which point they can do whatever they want with any of the existing bitcoin).

    Though that was indeed an accident, and in the aftermath, mining pool immediately fractured because no one in the pool wanted to crash bitcoin's value.

• On the bright side ... (Score:5, Funny)

  by CptJeanLuc ( 1889586 ) writes: on Saturday September 17, 2022 @03:17AM (#62889031)

  Mankind is creative, if nothing else. I am sure there are lots of other ways to make money off people who have poor understanding of the "product" they are buying, by producing something of zero value while killing the environment in the process.

  Maybe we could have a brainstorming here for the next big thing to replace cryptocurrency mining?

  Here is one random idea. With crypto mining, putting an electricity generator on top of a natural gas source, and having to build an expensive data center, is lots of work and takes starting capital to set up. Why not use gas flames as currency directly? You create lots of little flames directly from the natural gas, and keep them burning. You sell the ownership of each flame, and people can sell their flame to other people. Make a NFT of the flame, and make even more money. Charge a fee for some guy or gal to walk around making sure the flames keep burning, and you can make even more money. Charge more for "special flames" where you mix in a little powder withi the flame to give it special properties like different colors or obnoxious fumes (ideally using rare earth minerals for the powder, to hurt the environment as much as possible).

  And that is just the first idea that comes to mind, there must be thousands more! Come on folks ... we can do better than cryoptomining. There must be ways to make money by hurting the environment faster with less effort.

  Share twitter facebook

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by John.Banister ( 1291556 ) * writes: Maybe you could pyro catalyze some lithium batteries [sciencedirect.com].

• Wouldn't this only affect Ethereum mining? (Score:2)

  by ayesnymous ( 3665205 ) writes: Why do they make it sound like ALL cryptocoin mining is no longer profitable?

  • Re: Wouldn't this only affect Ethereum mining? (Score:2)

    by St.Creed ( 853824 ) writes:

    Power costs have been rising recently. Combined with lower prices on many coins, the investments in equipment no longer have a reasonable break-even time.

  • Re: (Score:3)

    by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) writes:

    Because it's (apparently) true? At least all the ones tracked by NiceHash.

    Many of the non-ethereum coins are actually processed on the etherium blockchain. Many of the rest weren't profitable to start with. And the ones that were left have probably seen an influx of miners who were previously mining the others and are now fighting over the scraps.

    • • Re: (Score:2)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) writes:

        Etherium miners formerly used GPUs to do that processing, and charged fees for it.

• • Re: (Score:2)

    by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:

    Sure. I was on a hike earlier today, and saw a sasquatch riding a unicorn and he (?) confirmed it!

    Go away, troll.

  • Re: (Score:2)

    by spth ( 5126797 ) writes:

    The western economies are very quickly collapsing. All of this nonsense is about to go away very very soon. Remember: you voted for it.

    I didn't have a vote in the PoW vs. PoS switch in Ethereum. Still it is IMO not just a good idea, but a necessity.

    Also, as far as I know, western economies are more than just GPU mining.

  • Re: (Score:3)

    by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

    We're in a demographic driven recession we knew was coming in 1980 that is likely to have a significantly deleterious effect on economy for at least a decade in US, and likely several decades in EU.

    It's nowhere near as bad as what China is having with their demographics however, and even China isn't collapsing. Ergo, we're unlikely to collapse any time soon.

    If you need a meaningful benchmark for "will severe economic distress caused by demographic bomb finally blowing up, exactly at the time it was predicte

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) writes: What in the world are you talking about. Did you miss covid and putin's war? We are in a tailspin worldwide because of those two global catastrophes. Covid is almost over, but putin is going nowhere unless someone helps him out a window. And covid inflicted almost 2 years of severely restricted production. Something that is going to have a long tail along with the unknown length of time it takes to restore Ukraine AFTER putin is kicked out and all the crops, fertilizer, neon, ... that was produced in Ukrain

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) writes:

        Isn't globalism wonderful!!! Now instead of just Russia/Ukraine haven't problems, the whole world gets to suffer. Thank you my elected politicians for making us a global economy over the past 50 years. It's done much to enrich the top and continue to drive everyone else down.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

          It unironically is. It means that instead of catastrophic problems somewhere in the world all the time, we have merely occasional minor problems some of the time when system can't adjust. Because the rest of the world can help the troubled region adjust.

          The main problem with it is that problems within actual globalist structures tend to have global impact. Like the price of refined fuels being extremely high in nations that bought into ESG investing over for profit investing, resulting in crash in investmen

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) writes:

            The rest of the world helps out countries when catastrophe hits anyway. Any time some major bad event happens, the world sends lots of aid to the affected region. If we were just a bit less linked up, we could help each other even more.

            Instead, we've done our best to help the global corporations maximize profits. They find the cheapest labor on the planet to make things while turning around and selling the products at a premium to first world markets. Globalism would be a lot more awesome if all labor was m

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

        All right. Give me a prediction that's better than mine, rather than the standard "sky is falling, DOOM IS UPON US!" screeching about the problems completely ignoring the obvious other side of solutions already in place.

        For example, we now already know that we're going to be fine on fertilizer in the West because we almost certainly overfertilized for last two to five decades. Which means that soil itself is oversaturated with nutrients so we can manage proper farming even with reduced fertilization for a f

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) writes: I was merely pointing out that your doomsday of demographic driven recession was inaccurate. The recession and possible depression is the result of covid and putin. My prediction is people will work later in life (as they have been for the past 2 decades, average age of retirement has been increasing) because they have to and/or labor demand will offer higher wages. Doom and gloom eh?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

            If that was true, we'd be in massive upswing due to covid being behind us.

            But we aren't. We're in fact experiencing the opposite, and as a lot of institutions responsible for disseminating this sort of data note, we're having the kind if inflation we haven't seen before. It's not an inflation because of extreme growth outpacing. It's an inflation because we can't find people to produce things, even in economy with barely any and even negative growth.

            Because we never had a situation with demographics going d

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) writes: Inflation in case you were not aware is a lagging indicator. I don't know why you do not seem to want to see the obvious. Putin and covid. You do not instantly make all the stuff that wasn't made for 2 years. You don't magically replace the oil and gas putin was sending to Europe. These have nothing to do with how many people are retiring. I just can't figure out what angle you are pushing. The only one that makes sense is you are Russian and trying to downplay putin's responsibility. As to demographics, it

    • • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

        It's ok, while your darling China has a good chance of crashing pretty badly because of those reasons, the rest of the world is already bypassing it, moving supply chains out of it to surrounding nations or repatriating them back to developed world.

        Local problems only impact global markets to a significant degree if global markets are invested in local economy. And pretty much everyone is divesting from PRC.

        • • Re: (Score:2)

            by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) writes:

            Indeed, I don't go for red herrings thrown by my cute little personal troll that has been trying this silly stuff on me for what, two years now?

            Or how long was it when you got pissed at my critique of PRC and started spamming this kind of trolling under almost every single post of mine?

  • • They didn't - ask them (Score:5, Interesting)

      by raymorris ( 2726007 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @08:10PM (#62888525) Journal

      A large percentage didn't vote for Biden - they voted against Trump.

      One of the most important things a presidential candidate does is constantly getting their name and face out there. Appearing on the morning news shows, doing pressers, doing "town halls", etc. Anything to be in the press as much as possible, as soon as possible, as often often as possible. They make big pronouncements, exaggerating things, making promises they know they can't fulfill. See Trump 2016 for a great example.

      Biden won this time by doing the opposite of what winning candidates always do. He spent the first half of the campaign being very quiet, not announcing any policy proposals or anything. He let Trump have the press, let it be Trump that people saw. Why did that work? Because seeing plenty of Trump, over half the country was ready to vote for "somebody else, not that guy". And quiet Biden fulfilled the role of the anonymous "somebody else" masterfully.

      .

      Parent Share twitter facebook

      • Re:They didn't - ask them (Score:5, Insightful)

        by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: on Friday September 16, 2022 @10:06PM (#62888721) Journal

        Anything to be in the press as much as possible, as soon as possible, as often often as possible. They make big pronouncements, exaggerating things, making promises they know they can't fulfill.

        Say hello to Ron DeSantis.

        Parent Share twitter facebook

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Osgeld ( 1900440 ) writes:

          To be fair, that guy is the only one that could have a rational conversation with a coked out Gerry Busey

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Opportunist ( 166417 ) writes:

          Hell yeah, Florida Man for president!

          I'm all for it, then again, I can use a good laugh and he will be an ocean away. But it would really suck if I had to live there.

          • Re:They didn't - ask them (Score:4, Funny)

            by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: on Saturday September 17, 2022 @03:09AM (#62889021) Journal

            All I can say is, it's a good thing that the American system is designed to succeed even when we have a bad president.

            Parent Share twitter facebook

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Opportunist ( 166417 ) writes:

              That's the amazing part. The US president has more power than most presidents in other countries (ok, in other coutries that have a system that could at least halfway be considered "not a dictatorship"). Calling the US an elective monarchy (with term limits) isn't that far fetched, Still, it has enough checks and bounds that it actually does work and keeps an insane "king" from actually causing any damage.

              Despite all its flaws, and there are many, many flaws, the political system in the US kinda works. The

      • • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by sjames ( 1099 ) writes:

          Can you name any particular thing Biden has done to implement those 'atrocities'? Anything at all? Or are you just guzzling cool aid?

          • Re:They didn't - ask them (Score:5, Informative)

            by Anonymous Coward writes: on Saturday September 17, 2022 @05:10AM (#62889115)

            Restores daily press briefings

            Reverse Trump's Muslim ban

            Rejoins the Paris Climate agreement

            Orders agencies to reunite families separated at border by Trump

            Rejoins The World Health Organization

            Requires non-citizens to be included in the Census

            Creates the position of Covid-19 Response Coordinator

            Prohibits administration members from lobbying or registering as foreign agents for two years after leaving

            Invokes defense production act to produce masks, PPE and vaccines

            Provide funding to local and state officials to create vaccination sites

            Ends Federal Contracts With Private Prisons

            Restores access to healthcare.gov

            Ends support for Saudi Arabia led campaign in Yemen

            Daily Covid deaths reduced in half after one month

            Historic stimulus bill passed

            Increases poorest 20% of Americans' income by 20% permanently

            Reduces backlog of Veterans compensation and pension claims by more than half

            Created six million jobs

            Unemployment claims at the lowest levels since 1969

            Extends universal free school lunch through 2022

            Commits to cutting U.S. emissions in half by 2030 as part of Paris climate pact

            Reverses Trump's Anti-Trans Shelter Rule

            Officially recognizes massacre of Armenians in World War I as genocide

            Raises Minimum Wage for Federal Contractors and Federal Employees to $15

            Creates new operation to crack down on human smuggling

            Lifts Secrecy of Visitor Logs Cloaked by Trump

            Suspends oil and gas leases in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge

            Restores $1 billion in federal funding for California high speed rail Trump had cut

            Grows US Economy 6.4% in 1st quarter - 2021

            In first six months regained job numbers lost under Trump administration. (3 million)

            Prohibits payday lenders from charging interests rates above that of what individual states allow

            Enacts massive EO that provides 76 distinct actions to increase competition, reduce monopolies, and provide eliminate laws the unfairly treat workers. Including:

            Eliminating non-compete clausesStop businesses from collaborating to reduce wages/benefitsStop big tech companies purchasing competitors to unfairly compete with small businessesImportation of prescription drugs from Canada and increase support for genericsHearing aids to be sold over-the-counterRequiring airlines to refund consumer fees when bags are late or Wi-Fi doesn't workCrack down on railroads and ocean shipping to reduce costs of transporting goodsOther anti-monopoly legislation with agriculture, banking and internet

            2nd quarter 2021 economy grows 6.5% - Economy surpasses pre-pandemic levels.

            Achieves historic 45% reduction of poverty levels in first six months

            Achieves historic 61% reduction of child poverty in first six months

            Cut Obamacare premiums by 40%

            Bans the pesticide chlorpyrifos, linked to neurological damage in young children

            PAWS Act, allowing VA to pay for service dogs for veterans

            Forms new Indo-Pacific alliance with UK, Australia allowing for greater sharing of defense capabilities

            Adds measles to list of quarantinable diseases

            LGBTQ veterans discharged dishonorably for sexual orientation get full benefits

            Secures agreement of G20 to block corporations from moving jobs or profits overseas in order to avoid paying taxes by establishing a world minimum tax for corporations of 15%

            Passes largest infrastructure improvement bill in history

            $11 billion in transportation safety programs

            $7.5 billion for electric vehicles and EV charging

            $2.5 billion in zero-emission buses

            $2.5 billion in low-emission buses and $2.5 billion for ferries

            $21 billion in environmental remediation

            $47 billion for flooding & coastal resiliency and "climate resiliency," including protections against fires

            $39 billion to modernize transit, largest federal investment in public transit in history

            $25 bill

            Read the rest of this comment... Parent Share twitter facebook

            • Re: They didn't - ask them (Score:2)

              by St.Creed ( 853824 ) writes:

              Oh dang. I mean, I knew Biden was an improvement over Trump because, well, it's hard to do it worse. But this is a really impressive list. Even if "the economy" is rarely subject to political whims.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) writes:

          Your justifications for voting for Trump have more in common with a four year old having a temper tantrum because mommy didn't give him a cookie.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Keith Henson ( 1588543 ) writes:

            Look at where people voted for Trump.

            From the stone age, a bleak future turns on mechanisms that lead to war, and the first of them is to turn up the gain on circulating xenophobic or just crazy memes. Because war (in the stone age) was good for genes but bad for people, crazy-acting leaders become more attractive.

            EP theory explains a lot, but it's a depressing subject.

          • • • Re: (Score:2)

                by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) writes:

                Deep into a ditch? The stock market had been on a record run. We were running at under 2% unemployment. Black employment for men at it's highest in years. Then covid hit us and it all came tumbling down.

                As I said, just more handouts to corporations. Biden did this recently as well. https://www.forbes.com/sites/c... [forbes.com]

                So really, in a way, all this government money to subsidize solar panels just ends up in the Chinese pocket. Funny that eh?

                If there is such high demand for electric vehicles then why did the gover

    • Re: The economy is collapsing (Score:2, Redundant)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 ) writes:

      When you are offered two senile old farts you have no choice.

      • Re: The economy is collapsing (Score:2)

        by NagrothAgain ( 4130865 ) writes: We were offered quite a few more, but almost nobody had enough sack to vote for a 3rd Party Tard.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Osgeld ( 1900440 ) writes:

      They were both senile old men Trump is 76, Biden is 79 dipshit, can we just elect someone that was not born during WW2 and is not a fucking sideshow freak

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Joce640k ( 829181 ) writes:

        can we just elect someone that was not born during WW2 and is not a fucking sideshow freak

        You know who gets to pick the candidates, right?

        Hint: It's not you or me, it's the people who've built the system around themselves for their own benefit.

        • Re: The economy is collapsing (Score:2)

          by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) writes: Voters. Voters choose in the US. In the end its the voters. Voters chose Trump in 2016 and booted him out in 2020. The court system worked as intended and so did congress. Itâ(TM)s a bumpy ride but in the end the voters are dictating the direction we go. As it should be.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Osgeld ( 1900440 ) writes:

            your vote is meaningless at the federal level as its based on the popular consensus of your (often gerrymandered) district

            I live in a fairly small (40k pop) working class mostly non white town in the southeast that's been around since before the Civil War. Doesnt matter if the majority of the town votes for team 1 if team 2 are going out of their way to stack the deck, you vote is not even considered in the county let alone state.

            Voting only really works at the lower levels, like town county and maybe state

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) writes: You misunderstand national level voting. You’re literally one 350-millionth of the population, and your vote counts for roughly that. So, yes, each individual vote counts for almost nothing. In aggregate, however, if the vote is clean, a national vote gets a pretty good measure of the populations preferred choice. Not a perfect measure, I know, but a pretty good one. Trump beat Clinton because 48% of the voters wanted him, 49% wanted Clinton, and the geographical weighting of the US voting system

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by Osgeld ( 1900440 ) writes:

                so the people voted one way and the system said nah, this has happened in multiple elections ... clearly the peoples will means nothing at the federal level

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) writes: Well unfortunately it is the primary voters who choose. And because most people just are not that involved, it is the crazy left/right who pick the candidates. Sometimes I feel like the country is a boat where all the power shifts from starboard to port after elections and the boat is in a constant state of nearly capsizing as a result. Frankly I'm pretty happy Biden got it. He is more of a get things done without a lot of fanfare type. Look at the railroad strike that was averted. Barely a word out of him,

    • Re:The economy is collapsing (Score:5, Informative)

      by GigaplexNZ ( 1233886 ) writes: on Saturday September 17, 2022 @06:40AM (#62889171)

      There's this thing called "election fraud". Democrats claim it when their candidates lose.

      Isn't it the Republicans that were screaming about election fraud?

      Parent Share twitter facebook

  • • Re:The economy is collapsing (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 ) writes: on Saturday September 17, 2022 @02:12AM (#62888971)

      Well, what was the alternative?

      Quite frankly, the democrats could have sent the water cooler and it would have won, after 4 years of that.

      Parent Share twitter facebook

      • • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) writes: Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by shanen ( 462549 ) writes:

            Good list, but wasted on a troll.

            However you left out the threats against the public order and even against the principle of peaceful democratic transitions of power.

            (And I would be feeding the troll to go into TFG's obscene relationship with the media.)

            • • Re: (Score:2)

                by shanen ( 462549 ) writes:

                I didn't go all the way back, but just saw the immediate parent was an AC. I actually arrived via the search for Funny, and it may have been a featured comment linked from outside the discussion...

                I guess I should thank you for reminding me of the original story, but long ago I also dismissed cryptocurrency as a worthless scam. However, it is a technical scam, so I read a couple of books on the topic to understand more about how the (now dying) scam worked.

          • • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

              by JDAustin ( 468180 ) writes:

              Ah...good old fashioned Slashdot. Where left wings lies are modded Insightful and actual facts are modded as flamebait.

          • • Re: (Score:2)

              by mhotchin ( 791085 ) writes:

              USA - Over 3000 deaths per million populationCanada - About 1200 deaths per million.

              But sure, go ahead and tell us that the USA wasn't worse off than anyone else.In fact, I don't think there is even a single first-world nation worse off than the USA.https://ourworldindata.org/gra... [ourworldindata.org]

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by ravenshrike ( 808508 ) writes:

                Now normalize for obesity and Type 2 diabetes..

        • Re:The economy is collapsing (Score:5, Funny)

          by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) writes: on Saturday September 17, 2022 @07:23AM (#62889187) Journal

          His filing system certainly appears to be innovative

          Parent Share twitter facebook

        • Re: The economy is collapsing (Score:3)

          by anonymouscoward52236 ( 6163996 ) writes:

          Lock him up! Lock him up!

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) writes:

          Ok. So why did he have highly classified documents in his pool shed, after having his lawyers attest that there was not any more government property there? You know, the lawyers that now have to get their own lawyers?

          Why were they in his desk? Why could they only be recovered by the government through a search warrant?

          Is that a media conspiracy too?

          Did he not claim to be the "law and order" president? Did he not very publicly talk about throwing the book at people who mishandle classified material? Did

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:

            Sounds pretty bad to me, and these are just revelations of the last 4 weeks. What's yet to come?

            He's going to ship the pardoned capitol insurrectionists to Martha's Vinyard.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes:

          That was reasonable to say in 2016. It's not reasonable to say after 2020.

        • • • Re: (Score:2)

              by hsthompson69 ( 1674722 ) writes:

              It's not about the truth, it's about the narrative.

              You cannot be a good person if you disbelieve the current thing. Even if the current thing contradicts the last current thing.

              The Orange Man Is Bad. Until we decide that someone else is the Orange Man now.

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