[Grammar] - Do You Mean/Did You Mean
Maybe your like
- Home
- Forums New posts Help Rules
- What's new New posts Latest activity
- eBooks
- Donate
- New posts
- Help
- Rules
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
- Forums
- Learning English
- Ask a Teacher
- Thread starter kadioguy
- Start date Oct 13, 2019
- Views : 17,689
- 1
- 2
Go to page
Go Next Last
kadioguy
Key Member
Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwanjutfrank said: 1) The difference between these two forms is the inclusion of the definite article the, with gives phrase a. a specific reference that b. lacks. Click to expand...
kadioguy said: Do you mean "which"? Click to expand...
jutfrank said: Yes, I did. I'll change that error now. Click to expand...https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...out-language?p=1537495&viewfull=1#post1537495 In this context, I am not sure which is better. a. Do you mean "which"? b. Did you mean "which"? Now I'll try to explain. I think (a) is okay, because the time between jutfrank's post and my reply was short. However, jutfrank replied to me, "Yes, I did." That may mean jutfrank thought although the time was short, indeed it went past. This is the reason I think (b) is also okay. What do you think? Which one would you use? Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 T
tedmc
VIP Member
Joined Apr 16, 2014 Member Type Interested in Language Native Language Chinese Home Country Malaysia Current Location Malaysia There is no difference whether you asked the question in the present or past tense. As for the reply, it matters only if there is a change of the answer between "then' and "now", as in jutfrank making a correction to his earlier post. kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwantedmc said: As for the reply, it matters only if there is a change of the answer between "then' and "now", as in jutfrank making a correction to his earlier post. Click to expand...Do you mean if there is no change of the answer, it doesn't matter whether to say "Yes, did" or "Yes, I do"? Why are the present tense and the past tense both grammatically OK in the question and reply in this context?
jutfrank
VIP Member
Joined Mar 5, 2014 Member Type English Teacher Native Language English Home Country England Current Location England My answer here will highlight what I think is an interesting difference between two distinct senses of the verb mean. Remember that apart from its sense as it relates to semiotics, the verb mean can also be used to talk about people's intentions. Here are three examples: Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you. I meant to call you but I got distracted. Start as you mean to go on. In all of those sentences, the verb mean is similar to the verb intend. It does not have a sense of 'meaning' in the semiotic sense. I believed that your question about my error was actually a question about what I intended to write. If that is the case, the past tense is more appropriate, because the intention is in the past. The intention is not present now because it's too late—the mistake has been committed. And that's why I responded with Yes, I did instead of Yes, I do. In other words, I understood your question to be asking Did you mean (to write) 'which'? When you ask a question about meaning in the semiotic sense, then present tense Do you mean ... ? and Yes, I do would be an appropriate question and answer. Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
emsr2d2
Moderator
Staff member Joined Jul 28, 2009 Member Type English Teacher Native Language British English Home Country UK Current Location UKkadioguy said: Do you mean if there is no change of the answer, it doesn't matter whether [STRIKE]to[/STRIKE] I/we say "Yes, I did" or "Yes, I do"? Click to expand...With my corrections above, they're both grammatically correct, but which one you choose would depend on the question. Q: Did you like the book? A: Yes, I did. :tick: A: Yes, I do. :cross: Q: Do you like cheese? A: Yes, I do. :tick: A: Yes, I did. :cross:
kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwanjutfrank said: I believed that your question about my error was actually a question about what I intended to write. If that is the case, the past tense is more appropriate, because the intention is in the past. The intention is not present now because it's too late—the mistake has been committed. And that's why I responded with Yes, I did instead of Yes, I do. In other words, I understood your question to be asking Did you mean (to write) 'which'? When you ask a question about meaning in the semiotic sense, then present tense Do you mean ... ? and Yes, I do would be an appropriate question and answer. Click to expand...1. Can I say this? ----------- A. Did you mean to write 'which'? ---->(intention) B. Do you mean 'which'? ---->(meaning) When we ask a question about "meaning" (in the forum), the present tense would be an appropriate question and answer, because the text is visible to us, so we see it as being present now. ----------- 2. But how about in everyday conversation? ---------- Tom: (say something) Bob: Do you mean/Did you mean ...? (ask meaning, not intention) ---------- I think "Do you mean" is appropriate, because Bob replies to Tom immediately. Even though technically the time has gone past, we can ignore that. Am I right? Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
jutfrank
VIP Member
Joined Mar 5, 2014 Member Type English Teacher Native Language English Home Country England Current Location Englandkadioguy said: When we ask a question about "meaning" (in the forum), the present tense would be an appropriate question and answer, because the text is visible to us, so we see it as being present now. Click to expand...No, that is not the reason for using the present tense. The reason we use the present simple tense in sentences about sentence meaning (e.g. This means ... and Does sentence A mean ...?) is that we understand the meaning to be permanent/unchanging. If something means something today, it will also mean the same thing tomorrow.
But how about in everyday conversation? ---------- Tom: (say something) Bob: Do you mean/Did you mean ...? (ask meaning, not intention) ---------- I think "Do you mean" is appropriate, because Bob replies to Tom immediately. Even though technically the time has gone past, we can ignore that. Am I right? Click to expand...I don't actually understand what you mean, but it doesn't sound right, no. To avoid any possible misunderstanding, please improve your examples by completing Tom and Bob's exchange to make the situation very clear. Think carefully about what type of meaning (speaker meaning or sentence meaning) you are thinking of.
kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwanjutfrank said: No, that is not the reason for using the present tense. The reason we use the present simple tense in sentences about sentence meaning (e.g. This means ... and Does sentence A mean ...?) is that we understand the meaning to be permanent/unchanging. If something means something today, it will also mean the same thing tomorrow. Click to expand...Thank you, jutfrank.
Please let me explain it clearer. jutfrank said: When you ask a question about meaning in the semiotic sense, then present tense Do you mean ... ? and Yes, I do would be an appropriate question and answer. Click to expand...Here, what I am doing is to try understanding what you mean above. Do you mean: -------- When we ask a question about "meaning" (on forums), the present tense would be an appropriate question and answer. For example, "Do you mean ...?""Yes, I do."(rather than "Did you mean ...?""Yes, I did.") , because the text of the original poster is visible to us, so we see it as being present now. --------
jutfrank said: I don't actually understand what you mean, but it doesn't sound right, no. To avoid any possible misunderstanding, please improve your examples by completing Tom and Bob's exchange to make the situation very clear. Think carefully about what type of meaning (speaker meaning or sentence meaning) you are thinking of. Click to expand...OK, I'll try it again. (In everyday conversation we cannot "see" words when speaking, so I think this is different from asking and answering online.) Case 1 Tom: Hey, you! Bob: I'm sorry. Do/Did you mean me? (Adapted from https://i.imgur.com/7lHKmtp.jpg) Case 2 Tom: Perhaps we should try another approach. Bob: What do/did you mean? (Adapted from https://i.imgur.com/3JqjhEC.jpg) In these two cases I think "do you mean" is appropriate because Bob replies to Tom immediately. Even though technically the time has gone past, we can ignore that. Case 3 What did he mean by that remark? https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/mean_1?q=mean I am not sure in what context we can use the past tense in the sentence. Maybe a longer interval between his mark and the speaker's saying this sentence? For example, he gave his mark one hour ago, yesterday, last week, etc. Case 4 What was meant by the poet? http://learnersdictionary.com/definition/mean Is this case the same as Case 3? Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
jutfrank
VIP Member
Joined Mar 5, 2014 Member Type English Teacher Native Language English Home Country England Current Location Englandkadioguy said: Do you mean: -------- When we ask a question about "meaning" (on forums), the present tense would be an appropriate question and answer. For example, "Do you mean ...?""Yes, I do."(rather than "Did you mean ...?""Yes, I did.") , because the text of the original poster is visible to us, so we see it as being present now. Click to expand...Well, that's not exactly what I meant, but it may be a reason, depending on the context.
Case 1 Tom: Hey, you! Bob: I'm sorry. Do/Did you mean me? Click to expand...Both are possible. I'll explain why below. Related side point:The sense of mean here is similar to 'refer to'. Bob could say Are/Were you referring to me?
Case 2 Tom: Perhaps we should try another approach. Bob: What do/did you mean? In these two cases I think "do you mean" is appropriate because Bob replies to Tom immediately. Even though technically the time has gone past, we can ignore that. Click to expand...Yes. Only do is appropriate here. Both Tom and Bob are presently engaged in the conversation. Compare this to Case 1, where the two speakers are not presently engaged in a conversation until Bob responds. I do think though that the present tense Do is more likely in Case 1 because, from the moment of Bob's response, they begin to be presently engaged. Related side point: Can you see how the sense of mean is different from in Case 1? It does not mean 'refer to'. (Well, what Bob means is not obvious from this. In fact, he could mean What are you referring to? but I imagine a paraphrase of Bob's response as: Please expand on what you just said.)
Case 3 What did he mean by that remark? I am not sure in what context we can use the past tense in the sentence. Maybe a longer interval between his mark and the speaker's saying this sentence? For example, he gave his mark one hour ago, yesterday, last week, etc. Click to expand...The focus (the remark) is clearly an event in the distant past. It does not matter whether it was ten seconds or ten years ago. The idea is that the speaker is thinking about the remark as being in the past. Contrast this with Case 2.
Case 4 What was meant by the poet? Is this case the same as Case 3? Click to expand...Yes. But it seems to me like an odd, and quite unnatural example. I think that the present tense would be just as likely, if not more likely, because as you have noticed, when we read written texts, we tend to use the present tense to talk about them. This is because we are presently engaged with them. We even use the present tense to talk about writers who have been dead for hundreds of years. (E.g. Shakespeare is saying in the play that ... Confucius says we should ... Lao Tze thinks that ...) I've noticed that many of your questions relate in some way to the idea of present time. I'd like to remind you that the notion of what we call 'the present' in English is really quite undefined. It does not simply relate to an instant in linear time. It very often describes a fundamental kind of psychological experience (I like to call it a 'mindframe') that can extend indefinitely into the past/future. In Case 2, essentially, it really does not matter how much time has passed between Tom and Bob's utterances. Imagine that instead of a spoken conversation it was a conversation by email. They would still likely use the present tense to refer to each other's comments, even if they only emailed each other once a year. The point is that they are presently engaged in discourse. The fact that their emails are written is not crucial to that, though it does make it very obvious. It is still possible to say what Socrates thinks even though he never wrote anything down, as long as we feel that his thoughts are present to us. Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwanjutfrank said: Well, that's not exactly what I meant, but it may be a reason, depending on the context. Click to expand...Thank you, jutfrank.
Now I think what you meant is that the key to decide whether to use this present simple is whether the speakers are presently engaged the conversation, as you have said below. Am I right? (I have read all you've written in post #9.) jutfrank said: I've noticed that many of your questions relate in some way to the idea of present time. I'd like to remind you that the notion of what we call 'the present' in English is really quite undefined. It does not simply relate to an instant in linear time. It very often describes a fundamental kind of psychological experience (I like to call it a 'mindframe') that can extend indefinitely into the past/future. In Case 2, essentially, it really does not matter how much time has passed between Tom and Bob's utterances. Imagine that instead of a spoken conversation it was a conversation by email. They would still likely use the present tense to refer to each other's comments, even if they only emailed each other once a year. The point is that they are presently engaged in discourse. The fact that their emails are written is not crucial to that, though it does make it very obvious. It is still possible to say what Socrates thinks even though he never wrote anything down, as long as we feel that his thoughts are present to us. Click to expand...
jutfrank
VIP Member
Joined Mar 5, 2014 Member Type English Teacher Native Language English Home Country England Current Location England Yes. kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwankadioguy said: Case 3 What did he mean by that remark? Click to expand...
jutfrank said: The focus (the remark) is clearly an event in the distant past. It does not matter whether it was ten seconds or ten years ago. The idea is that the speaker is thinking about the remark as being in the past. Contrast this with Case 2. Click to expand...In Case 3 the past simple "did" is used, because the speaker doesn't actually get engaged the conversation with "he" (the person who made that remark). Am I right?
jutfrank
VIP Member
Joined Mar 5, 2014 Member Type English Teacher Native Language English Home Country England Current Location England That's a factor, yes, that shows that the speaker is thinking about the interpretation of a past remark. kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwankadioguy said: Case 3 What did he mean by that remark? Click to expand...
jutfrank said: That's a factor, yes, that shows that the speaker is thinking about the interpretation of a past remark. Click to expand...Thank you, jutfrank.
I have another question: Which of the following should we use? (I don't know which tense I should use to describe the speaker's saying.) 1. In Case 3 the speaker says, "What did he mean by that remark?" 2. In Case 3 the speaker is saying, "What did he mean by that remark?" 3. In Case 3 the speaker said, "What did he mean by that remark?" emsr2d2
Moderator
Staff member Joined Jul 28, 2009 Member Type English Teacher Native Language British English Home Country UK Current Location UK "Case 3" was a written statement. It isn't going to change so I'd use the simple present. In Case 3, the speaker says "What did ... ?" kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwanemsr2d2 said: "Case 3" was a written statement. It isn't going to change so I'd use the simple present. In Case 3, the speaker says "What did ... ?" Click to expand...Thank you, emsr2d2.
Could you tell me why you use "was "? How about "is"? emsr2d2
Moderator
Staff member Joined Jul 28, 2009 Member Type English Teacher Native Language British English Home Country UK Current Location UK That works too. kadioguy
Key Member
Thread starter Joined Mar 4, 2017 Member Type Student or Learner Native Language Chinese Home Country Taiwan Current Location Taiwanemsr2d2 said: That works too. Click to expand...Can I say: When we use "was", we express the action "being written" happened in the past; when we use "is", we express that statement is visible to us, being present now.
emsr2d2
Moderator
Staff member Joined Jul 28, 2009 Member Type English Teacher Native Language British English Home Country UK Current Location UK If you really need to analyse it, yes, I suppose so. Ttedmc
VIP Member
Joined Apr 16, 2014 Member Type Interested in Language Native Language Chinese Home Country Malaysia Current Location Malaysia But when you ask a question about what was said by someone earlier, you would not know if their reply still holds true or or if there is a change. So I would say it doesn't really matter whether you use the simple present tense or the past tense.- 1
- 2
Go to page
Go Next Last Status Not open for further replies.Similar threads
S- Locked
- Sta
- May 19, 2024
- Linguistics
- Locked
- englishhobby
- Jun 13, 2015
- Ask a Teacher
P - Locked
- Polyester
- Nov 30, 2014
- Ask a Teacher
D - Locked
- Doncaster
- Aug 20, 2012
- Ask a Teacher
N - Locked
- nora2000
- Dec 4, 2011
- Ask a Teacher
Ask a Teacher
If you have a question about the English language and would like to ask one of our many English teachers and language experts, please click the button below to let us know:
Ask a Teacher » (Requires Registration)Share this page
Facebook X (Twitter) Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email Share Link- Forums
- Learning English
- Ask a Teacher
Tag » What Did You Mean By That
-
Definition What Do You Mean By That - Gymglish
-
When Should I Use 'What Did You Mean By This' Vs. 'What Do ... - Quora
-
Druski "What Do You Mean By That?" | Know Your Meme
-
What Do You Mean Vs What Did You Mean - WordReference Forums
-
What Did You Mean Or What You Meant? - English Forums
-
What Do You Mean By That? What Is Meant By That? Do These ... - Italki
-
What Did You Say? What Do You Mean?: An Illustrated Guide To ...
-
What Did You Mean Or What Did You Meant? - TextRanch
-
Did You Mean Or Did You Meant? - TextRanch
-
What Did You Mean | English Examples In Context - ru
-
Implementing Google's "Did You Mean" Feature In Java - InfoQ
-
What Do You Mean By That? - Kevin Huhn
-
Did You Mean - Translation Into Spanish - Examples English