Horizon Is Ugly And Here's Why [Jess O'Brien / Giant Bomb] | Page 7

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Horizon Is Ugly and Here's Why [Jess O'Brien / Giant Bomb]

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• Start date Sep 5, 2022

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Deleted member 3924

User requested account closure

Banned Oct 25, 2017 46,074

IvanSlavkov said: I'm sorry but that level gave me a headache, due to the color mess. I've not played it and most likely will never do, as such colorful messes give me headaches. Me not playing the level, doesn't change the fact that her opinion immediately went down the drain with that example. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

So you're commenting on level design for a game you never played....because the video looked like "colour shit" ? Im fairly sure that level is notoriously well received in every sense.

Khanimus

Avenger Oct 25, 2017 50,190 Greater Vancouver

Combichristoffersen said: I'll have to watch the video later, but her argument seemingly is that it's visually busy, so I can sort of see that although I don't know if that is enough to warrant calling it ugly. If she wants an open world game with little to look at/little actually going on visually, there's always BotW. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

she literally talks several times about BOTW.

Kabuki Waq

Member Oct 26, 2017 6,859 Wait till she plays xenoblade 3. I mean wtf monolith

Linus815

Member Oct 29, 2017 26,305

IvanSlavkov said: This has to be a joke! So she is claiming H:FW is a colorful mess and gives and example for that rainbow shit level from Psychonauts?!? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

you're joking right? if you watched the video how on earth did you miss the part where she specifically talks about this?

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth

Member Oct 25, 2017 14,002

KCroxtonJr said: Disagree with pretty much everything said. Some really bad comparisons in there (comparing linear levels to an open world...), and why did she spend so much time talking about...Aloy talking too much? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Aloy talking a lot is, in many ways, directly married to the busy visual language in the game. She vocally talks and guides the players on what to do as it's not clearly defined through the noise. They likely ran into a lot of focus testing issues with people getting lost and cranked up how chatty she is.

IvanSlavkov said: I'm sorry but that level gave me a headache, due to the color mess. I've not played it and most likely will never do, as such colorful messes give me headaches. Me not playing the level, doesn't change the fact that her opinion immediately went down the drain with that example. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Her example...explains WHY it's a good one though. Psychonauts uses simple shapes to not overwhlem you despite the overabundance of color. The level itself maintains good readability, has clear pathways and doesn't get wildly complicated when it knows the visuals are doing a lot.

IvanSlavkov

Member Oct 27, 2017 2,266 Bulgaria

lvl 99 Pixel said: So you're commenting on level design for a game you never played....because the video looked like "colour shit" ? Im fairly sure that level is notoriously well received in every sense. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Where have I said anything level design. She is talking about colors and that level in P2 is a pallete mess. Please don't put words in my mouth.

KCroxtonJr

Member Oct 28, 2017 1,665

ShadowAUS said: Because it's been pretty much the most common single complaint about FW? She's using it to point out that both the over-reliance on the focus as a navigation tool, and the absurd chattiness of Aloy constantly narrating where to go and how to solve puzzles, can be seen as crutches to help deal with the relatively bad visual and design clarity that some people feel the game has, where without it would result in hamstrung puzzle readability, and navigation through the busiest parts of the world without it. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Papercuts said: Aloy talking a lot is, in many ways, directly married to the busy visual language in the game. She vocally talks and guides the players on what to do as it's not clearly defined through the noise. They likely ran into a lot of focus testing issues with people getting lost and cranked up how chatty she is. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Sorry but this is just not true at all. Aloy talking is just one way of guiding the player, not THE way. Her talking too much is definitely a valid complaint though.

Bedlam

Banned Oct 26, 2017 4,536 I wouldn't call it "ugly" by any means. Why do we always have to go to extremes? It looks busy which can be uneasy on the eyes sometimes (mainly depending on the biome) but often it's also gorgeous. I did find HZD had a bit less clutter and the map design felt more coherent. HFB's environments sometimes feel a bit more random. What's definitely hurting the overall presentation on top of these issues is that you have to use the focus constantly. Constant audio blips, lines and symbols cluttering the view. One reason why I prefer the more simple climbing mechanics of the original game, too.

Combichristoffersen

Banned Oct 27, 2017 12,756

Khanimus said: she literally talks several times about BOTW. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

At work, so I'll have to watch the video tonight.

Deleted member 3924

User requested account closure

Banned Oct 25, 2017 46,074

IvanSlavkov said: Where have I said anything level design. She is talking about colors and that level in P2 is a pallete mess. Please don't put words in my mouth. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Her video (which is also self described as a hot take) is about the ways in which games guide players through the games, whether thats waypointing, color implementation or the character narrating out loud the solutions to a problem. What do you know about colour theory to be calling something a palette mess? That level is intentionally by far the most extreme with its colours because its almost literally a drug trip inspired level. You have no context for how effective it is because you didn't play it and rely on a few seconds of footage. (its also really, really unintentionally funny to see one of the best platformer levels ever made as 'color shit') At this point there are people who don't watch the video in question nor play the games either and yet have these authoritative statements about both. Last edited: Sep 6, 2022

ratify

Member Feb 18, 2021 269 HFW is ugly because: - There is fog in the game - Aloy talks to much - The sunsets are too red - The climbing is bad - I don't like the name, "Aloy" - There are too many particle effects - The climbing is very, very, very bad - Turns out HFW is not BotW - ? and that is why HFW is ugly.

KCroxtonJr

Member Oct 28, 2017 1,665

ratify said: HFW is ugly because: - There is fog in the game - Aloy talks to much - The sunsets are too red - The climbing is bad - I don't like the name, "Aloy" - There are too many particle effects - The climbing is very, very, very bad - ? and that is why HFW is ugly. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

edit: nvm it's there now lol

Grue

Member Sep 7, 2018 8,180 Saw the vid last night, thought it was argued well, not really in a position to comment as I haven't played the game. But I was looking forward to this thread and wondering exactly how much of a shitshow it was going to be. Spoiler: Rating so far Seems about right, no-one has got themselves banned yet, imagine we're in early days though at 7 pages

StayHandsome

Member Nov 30, 2017 853 Stuff like yellow "climb here" queues are good design choices that help balance a world with visual credibility and good gameplay UX. That said I agree that there's too much visual clutter in modern games. I don't think that there's too much stuff so much as everything begs your attention. It's the visual hierarchy that is lacking.

ShadowAUS

Member Feb 20, 2019 2,862 Australia

NewErakid said: Is this really the most common complaint about FW? I'm playing through the game as read and post in this thread and I almost feel liek people have to be trolling or arguing in bad faith because i dont fimd thisngame to be anymore cluttered or hard to navigate than any other game open or single player game I've played. Only thing I would agree with the video is that alloy talks to much and even then i dislike because the talking unnecessary i would be able to navigate just fine without it. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yes, Aloy's chattiness as well as her essentially giving away every single puzzle without you having to put any thought into it is the most common complaint I've seen. Apparently, they nerfed her chatter somewhat in an update? I don't know, I beat it in the first week or two (and managed to get my copy a little early) so by the time I finished the game I think I had 1 update. You know there's another option other than trolling or bad faith, that doesn't require a large swathe of people to be disingenuous? People are different, even outside of different tastes people are psychologically and physiologically different, which leads to people experiencing things in vastly different ways. This is especially true when it comes to things like visual perception, as well as cognitive processing of sensory information. Even I as an experienced gamer fairly used to the modern visual business of AAA games found both Horizon games to be really quite tiring, due to eye strain. As well as that I found navigating a bit confusing at times and relied more on my map and minimap to get around quite often, rather than any actual visual cue, or intentioned navigational design. But my partner who is a relatively new gamer and not as used to the flurry of sensory chaos that games with a lot of these modern big budget visual showcases found it incredibly overwhelming within a fairly short period of time, which lead to headaches, eye strain, and nausea. This is to date the only game that has overwhelmed both her senses, as well as her ability to properly navigate the environment. That doesn't mean the game is bad (it will be in my top games of the year), this is a fairly niche case - but this experience, as well as this complaint in general being levied at this series more so than any other specific complaint (and at this series more than most other games, even busy ones) means that there is definitely something *there* to the complaint, even if it is only experienced by a relative minority of players.

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church

Member Oct 24, 2017 38,144

Gestault said: You want to calm down, or just keep sniping things out-of-context? I assumed you were doing this in good fun, but you're clearly not. I'm talking about priorities for non-interactive composition (i.e., "post-card appeal") vs actual interactive needs. For anyone else following along, my sentence about the sunset coloration read: Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I just think you shouldn't be speaking on behalf of everyone who has played the game. Not everyone agrees that it hurts legibility or gameplay.

finally

Member Jul 22, 2019 1,711 I have the same opinion about game called Aeterna Noctis

TonyBaduy

Member Oct 11, 2020 2,821 Mexico

NickMitch said: Visual noise and busy environments has been an issue for a very long time now. How many of us look at the mini map in games more than we try to parse and interpret and learn the environments? It has gone so far that developers use many kinds of tricks to use contrasting colors to guide us with the risk of breaking the sense of realism. The part in the video from GDC talk about playability and realism is spot on. But as long as we consumers want our TVs to use all our HDR enabled 4K pixels to work as hard as technically possible, we are stuck in this rut. I remember when a user here posted that they prefered to play The Witcher 3 on Switch, since the low res and cuts in the fidelity to accomodate for the Switch's power meant increased "readability" of the game. Man, did they get salt in return for beeing a fool or a troll.... Also. Breath of the wild is stellar in its execution regarding this. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I believe that GDC talk was precisely about how BotW was made and considering it is spot on, it reflects on the game. It is correct to say that not only visual clutter can get in the way (as too many details on literally everything), but also colors not contrasting enough, making IMPORTANT stuff merge with other stuff and be accidentally missed. Contrasting colors, as she said, have been used for hundreds of years even in drawings for that precise reason. I think one of the biggest issues she highlighted was the lack of contrasts preventing people from visually knowing where to go or what to do, even with the focus active, certain lighting conditions could hide those cues, which is a problem. I hope the dev team takes these criticisms at heart and when they do their next game they fix the issues their previous 2 games had, it won't be easy, but there are plenty other games they can look at to learn how it has been done before and adapt that to their own art direction. Also, maybe they should make everything climbable next time, like in AC or Zelda, but we will see what they do next.

HerotheChosen

Alt Account

Banned Jul 22, 2022 285

ratify said: HFW is ugly because: - There is fog in the game - Aloy talks to much - The sunsets are too red - The climbing is bad - I don't like the name, "Aloy" - There are too many particle effects - The climbing is very, very, very bad - Turns out HFW is not BotW - ? and that is why HFW is ugly. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I mean, if you're just going to dumb things down to a very basic level without actually explaining her reasoning behind it I guess it sounds silly and makes her opinion invalid. Last edited: Sep 6, 2022

IvanSlavkov

Member Oct 27, 2017 2,266 Bulgaria

Linus815 said: you're joking right? if you watched the video how on earth did you miss the part where she specifically talks about this? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Please read aga

lvl 99 Pixel said: Her video (which is also self described as a hot take) is about the ways in which games guide players through the games, whether thats waypointing, color implementation or the character narrating out loud the solutions to a problem. What do you know about colour theory to be calling something a palette mess? That level is intentionally by far the most extreme with its colours because its almost literally a drug trip inspired level. You have no context for how effective it is because you didn't play it and rely on a few seconds of footage. (its also really, really unintentionally funny to see one of the best platformer levels ever made as 'color shit') At this point there are people who don't watch the video in question nor play the games either and yet have these authoritative statements about both. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

So you are respecting her opinion, but mine is invalid, gotcha. Btw I highly recommend you watch the video till the end, her logic and reasoning jump over the place in the most stupid ways.

IvanSlavkov

Member Oct 27, 2017 2,266 Bulgaria

lvl 99 Pixel said: So you're commenting on level design for a game you never played....because the video looked like "colour shit" ? Im fairly sure that level is notoriously well received in every sense. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

So you have hard reading my post?

Deleted member 3924

User requested account closure

Banned Oct 25, 2017 46,074

IvanSlavkov said: So you are respecting her opinion, but mine is invalid, gotcha. Btw I highly recommend you watch the video till the end, her logic and reasoning jump over the place in the most stupid ways. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

IvanSlavkov said: So you have hard reading my post? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

idk why you posted twice with the same quote, but you gave a single sentence comprised of disregarding someones opinion and describing Psychonauts as colour shit. If you had more to say about it you would have. You're doing it again by proclaiming that she's being stupid but being vague about why.

regenhuber

Member Nov 4, 2017 6,019 Can't watch bc the video is blocked at my work PC. The issue with HFW imo was that GG had a cool vista everywhere you looked. They created some of the best vistas I have seen in any game but these images don't really stand out because if you turn left, there is another cool vista. By contrast Xenoblade 3 (despite lagging behind 2-3 gens in the graphics department) often makes you go through ugly, bland tunnels and then boom you pop out to an amazing vista.

NewErakid

Member Jan 17, 2018 1,089

ShadowAUS said: Yes, Aloy's chattiness as well as her essentially giving away every single puzzle without you having to put any thought into it is the most common complaint I've seen. Apparently, they nerfed her chatter somewhat in an update? I don't know, I beat it in the first week or two (and managed to get my copy a little early) so by the time I finished the game I think I had 1 update. You know there's another option other than trolling or bad faith, that doesn't require a large swathe of people to be disingenuous? People are different, even outside of different tastes people are psychologically and physiologically different, which leads to people experiencing things in vastly different ways. This is especially true when it comes to things like visual perception, as well as cognitive processing of sensory information. Even I as an experienced gamer fairly used to the modern visual business of AAA games found both Horizon games to be really quite tiring, due to eye strain. As well as that I found navigating a bit confusing at times and relied more on my map and minimap to get around quite often, rather than any actual visual cue, or intentioned navigational design. But my partner who is a relatively new gamer and not as used to the flurry of sensory chaos that games with a lot of these modern big budget visual showcases found it incredibly overwhelming within a fairly short period of time, which lead to headaches, eye strain, and nausea. This is to date the only game that has overwhelmed both her senses, as well as her ability to properly navigate the environment. That doesn't mean the game is bad (it will be in my top games of the year), this is a fairly niche case - but this experience, as well as this complaint in general being levied at this series more so than any other specific complaint (and at this series more than most other games, even busy ones) means that there is definitely something *there* to the complaint, even if it is only experienced by a relative minority of players. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I agree that alloy talks to too much i just don't agree with the reasoning that its a crutch to aid in the game because it's visually cluttered or hard to navigate. If alloy didn't talk I'm certain I could find my way around and solve puzzles just fine. Its completely unnecessary because the game is no worse visually than other games. I get people are different but even when i disagree with people i can often at least see where they're coming from but not in this case.You say you needed the map to navigate the game but i use the minimap to navigate in every open world game I've ever played so again I'm not seeing what differentiates horizon.

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret

Banned Oct 25, 2017 9,860 Maybe, just maybe, the people making this game, along with many people who have played this game excluding the person who made this video, actually like how vibrant this game is, they like all of the fog and particle effects, and they like to feel that sense of visual immersion in the world, which the incredible detail on everything achieves, in my opinion. The only things I actually agree on here are the climbing situation, and the godawful hand holding dialog. Everything else is basically, like, your opinion, man. Also, how do you, as a content creator and editor of videos yourself, compliment the picture editor of Mad Max: Fury Road by name for its shot composition? You can edit together shots that are provided to you, and maybe shift them around a small amount with the excess visual information outside the frame, but a picture editor cannot make all of that action take place in the center of the screen as discussed in this part of the video. That comes from the collaboration between the director and cinematographer, along with others responsible for the on-set work. And I like the name Aloy, come at me. Finally, are we being trolled with this Papyrus font all over everything while discussing how ugly something is? I feel like we're being trolled. Last edited: Sep 6, 2022

Toxel

Alt-Account

Banned Jun 26, 2022 354

Zero-ELEC said: Love VB's Hot Takeouts. And yeah, Horizon is an attack the senses, especially at lower resolutions. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Attack to the senses is pretty well put. My head hurt when I played it.

wafflebrain

Member Oct 27, 2017 13,098 I think this is part of the reason I fell off the game, its legit one of the most beautiful looking games I've seen, but mostly in photo mode. In motion, during combat, puzzle solving, and climbing its a bit of a mess. As others pointed out there are definitely other realistic, highly detailed AAA games such as RDR2 that manage to look better in terms of environmental sign posting, color palette to make each thing in an area stand out etc. Someone posted earlier how it can also be visually taxing playing something that is pushing so many pixels and I tend to agree. The older I get my eyes prefer less going on in a given scene if anything. I'm finding a lot of comfort in lower poly art styles in general. But for a recent example of a good middle ground its Elden Ring. I think the fact its environments aren't super dense with detail is a boon to it. It makes exploring the world and identifying unique landmarks a lot more engaging than "this forested area and grasslands looks the exact same in this part of the map as all the others" that you tend to find in the more detailed open world games like FW. I had this issue with Far Cry 6 as well. Standing still and taking in a particular vista is nice, but moment to moment traversal in it feels meaningless after a short while.

Rodelero

Member Oct 27, 2017 15,230

Bedlam said: I wouldn't call it "ugly" by any means. Why do we always have to go to extremes? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Because no one is interested in discussing grounded opinions. Horizon looks stunning but a bit busy at times… is not a video or thread anyone is going to click on.

ratify

Member Feb 18, 2021 269

HerotheChosen said: I mean, if you're just going to dumb things down to a very basic level without actually explaining her reasoning behind it I guess it sounds silly and makes her opinion invalid. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I didn't dumb things down very much. The bit about fog, sunsets being too red, and particle effects are just thrown into the video with little to no context. I suppose I left out the part about the color yellow being hard to spot while climbing and the rough correlation between the game looking better and Aloy somehow talking less? Honestly, the whole thing just seemed like a person who very clearly knows art, but didn't like a game, and is now making assumptions like, "The climbing is bad because of bad art", or "The main character talks to much because of bad art" Even though those are game mechanics that exist entirely separate of how something looks. There are no deep examples here, no strong points. The whole thing felt extremely shallow.

gblues

Member Oct 25, 2017 3,615 Tigard, OR I feel there's a couple reasons for these issues: 1. detail density and "readability" are mutually exclusive goals. Horizon's whole schtick is verisimilitude—high detail density. So it makes sense that it comes with the cost of being hard to read in a way that BOTW isn't. Aloy's Focus is actually a far more grounded take on Detective vision than any other game that uses the mechanic, including Batman itself. I .. hate it less than the alternative, like Tomb Raider 2013's ubiquitous white paint conveniently smeared where I need to go. I might not mind Xenoblade 3's "here's a path to your objective you can toggle on if you get lost" approach. 2. The game is being rendered on a 2d panel. In the real world, we generally don't take in the entire scene all at once. Your eyes can selectively focus on things and you automatically tune out everything else. You can't do that with a flat panel. This might be something foveated rendering would help with, but I think that's more around targeted rendering fidelity and not mimicking how our eyes work within the game. On a side note, I hear the complaints about Aloy's chattiness. As someone who talks to myself when thinking through a problem, it was something I actually liked and identified with. Aloy is an extremely intelligent woman who is adept at solving her own problems. For me, it almost felt collaborative—a direct contrast to Fi in Skyward Sword who would stop everything and trigger a cutscene to tell you exactly what to do next. I think it's fine to want a longer delay before the inner monologue begins, but I do not want her to stop talking to herself. That's part of her character and it's a very engineer trait.

Wesker

Member Aug 3, 2020 2,369 I found that a few games that are "highly detailed" – I only played the first Horizon for three hours so take that point with a grain of salt – can be hard to decipher. That's why we got yellow / white ledges in the first place. And I really, really hate those. I love it when games to it more subtly by lighting the way the player have to take or something like that. The reason I did not play Horizon any further was because of the low resolution on PS4 and the choppy FPS. MAYBE this resulted in me finding the game too noisy? I don't know. I always wanted to pick up the PC version when it was on sale (a hefty sale, not some "50% off get it for 35 Euros" kind of deal) to play it properly. But then again I don't really want to delve into THIS kind of open world in the near future. Oh, and I really like when characters in video games talk to themselves during certain situations. Makes them feel more human. Because why wouldn't you talk to yourself when traversing a vast open world? You'd get bored pretty fast and chatting yourself up is a good way to kill that boredom a bit. It can be a bit much when its overdone though.

electroaffe

Member Oct 28, 2017 1,922 Berlin Very fun and interesting video. Anyone knows the rjd2-style track at the end?

cowbanana

Member Feb 2, 2018 18,165 a Socialist Utopia I have absolutely no issue parsing the visuals in these games - I don't, at all, get the complaint about visual clutter. These games look absolutely incredible and beautiful and I just can't agree with this weird criticism.

JhOnNY_HD

Member Dec 13, 2020 1,225 HFW ugly? Nice clickbait I guess

Cali32

Member Oct 11, 2020 1,900 Probably the "busiest" from a visual stand point game I've ever played. I had to spam the focus all the time when exploring certain places or when climbing, etc. Last edited: Sep 6, 2022

Messofanego

Member Oct 25, 2017 34,142 UK

ThereAreFourNaan said: Partially I think so. But I'd also say it was in equal measure (or perhaps more so) a way to prevent players getting "stuck" in general, and to reduce the number of times you'd see people try to problem solve by walking around and mashing the interact button on every surface. The initial usage in Batman was partially to make you feel like you were the character using your high tech gear to solve problems (and it had all those scripted supplemental bits where you'd go into some detective mode sub-version). The environmental readability aspect is strongly related to other design trends like marking everything climbable with specific visual signposts (e.g. white chalk, or everything turning red in mirror's edge by default). Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yeah, that makes sense. Because also outside of Batman, detective mode just didn't make narrative sense for a lot of games so it must have been about guiding the player when in playtests people were getting lost.

Nephilim

Member Oct 28, 2017 6,087 This video is totally wrong. The game is just too beautiful, that's all.

bdiddy82

Member Nov 5, 2018 230 I like Jess, but this is just a 30 minute clickbait article. It's not ugly, you just don't like it. That's ok.

Dictator

Digital Foundry

Verified Oct 26, 2017 5,733 Berlin, 'SCHLAND

ItIsOkBro said: h e r o l i g h t i n g Click to expand... Click to shrink...

You are welcome The video is great - is this longer essayist style new to GB? I like it

Praxis

Sausage Tycoon

Member Oct 25, 2017 8,656 UK Purposefully terrible thumbnail besides, I'd have to say I agree. Gorgeous game, really impressive on a nice TV but I did find it overwhelming at times.

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Banned Oct 25, 2017 10,221

Kabuki Waq said: Wait till she plays xenoblade 3. I mean wtf monolith Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Very true. I was very disappointed in the general art direction and environments coming from Xenoblade DE.

IvanSlavkov

Member Oct 27, 2017 2,266 Bulgaria

lvl 99 Pixel said: idk why you posted twice with the same quote, but you gave a single sentence comprised of disregarding someones opinion and describing Psychonauts as colour shit. If you had more to say about it you would have. You're doing it again by proclaiming that she's being stupid but being vague about why. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Watch the video. If this is a valid criticism on her behalf, we have nothing to talk about and please read to learn.

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth

Member Oct 25, 2017 29,405 People that keep calling this click bait have no idea what that term means.

TonyBaduy

Member Oct 11, 2020 2,821 Mexico

ratify said: HFW is ugly because: - There is fog in the game - Aloy talks to much - The sunsets are too red - The climbing is bad - I don't like the name, "Aloy" - There are too many particle effects - The climbing is very, very, very bad - Turns out HFW is not BotW - ? and that is why HFW is ugly. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

This is extremely reductive and she makes a point that, even though most would probably find it beautiful, she, as an art school graduate, doesn't find it that way.

Milfanito ~

Banned Apr 1, 2022 168

bdiddy82 said: I like Jess, but this is just a 30 minute clickbait article. It's not ugly, you just don't like it. That's ok. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

That's right, but saying you don't like it doesn't generate as many views as saying it's ugly.

Saint of Killers

Member Oct 27, 2017 2,766

Razorrin said: TLDW is "don't be so eager to have an opinion on something you don't care to engage with" Click to expand... Click to shrink...

A Strong Latte said: You? Because if you wanted to know you'd watch it and not be in this thread at all Click to expand... Click to shrink...

AWBMAC.

HerotheChosen

Alt Account

Banned Jul 22, 2022 285

ratify said: is now making assumptions like, "The climbing is bad because of bad art", or "The main character talks to much because of bad art" Even though those are game mechanics that exist entirely separate of how something looks. There are no deep examples here, no strong points. The whole thing felt extremely shallow. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

How can she make assumptions on her own opinion? An opinion that she backs up with footage of how difficult the climbing cues are to spot in certain lighting. She also backs up the "Aloy has to talk because the way the game is designed leaves a player confused on where to go/what to do otherwise" She's not saying these things out of thin air and her critiquing the game doesn't invalidate your own opinion on it. It's like you only watched the video and then made vague assumptions yourself.

ShadowAUS

Member Feb 20, 2019 2,862 Australia

NewErakid said: I agree that alloy talks to too much i just don't agree with the reasoning that its a crutch to aid in the game because it's visually cluttered or hard to navigate. If alloy didn't talk I'm certain I could find my way around and solve puzzles just fine. Its completely unnecessary because the game is no worse visually than other games. I get people are different but even when i disagree with people i can often at least see where they're coming from but not in this case.You say you needed the map to navigate the game but i use the minimap to navigate in every open world game I've ever played so again I'm not seeing what differentiates horizon. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

To be clear, I think Alloy talked too often in a repetitive fashion, and too quickly spoils a lot of the sense of discovery with her chatter but I don't necessarily think that it's a crutch personally. I was more explaining why the OP bought it up, and why that discussion point has been bought up in the past. I actually like characters talking to themselves as someone who does it near constantly. I do think that without significant signposting some of the navigation and puzzles would have been a lot more obtuse though, not all of them but there's a couple I remember where I remember being glad about not having to try and figure out the route or solution myself with no hand holding. On your second point, my use of the minimap ended up being significantly more than in any other open world game I've played other than Zero Dawn - I had long stretches of gameplay and exploration where the only times I would take my eyes off the minimap for any length of time was combat. Otherwise I was just staring at the waypoint. Partly to rest my brain, as the onslaught of effects, colour, and foliage can be a bit visually overwhelming, and partly as I struggled more with navigation than I'm used to. - I'm not meaning the below to be pointed directly at you NewErakid, I just didn't want to make a separate post. I'm increasingly frustrated these days about people's inability to empathise and commiserate with someone, or someones, without some kind of significant understanding of the topic, or ability to experience it themselves. Sometimes you just can't understand others lived experiences and no matter how many times you call their experience weird, dumb, bad faith etc, it doesn't change that those people experienced it in that way. There're enough people here, and in the past, who have said that the Horizon games can be overwhelming from a sensory perspective, and hard to navigate due to the design of the game world and visuals that people should be able to just take that opinion at face value and say "Hey, well I thankfully didn't experience any of this, but it sucks that it's happening to other people. I wonder if there's a way that this can be improved while also keeping the impressive vibrancy and gorgeous looks of the game?" or something similar, without feeling the need to invalidate other people's experience and opinions. Especially because it's not like people, nor the OP video, are saying that Horizon is a bad game, nor that people should hate it for X reasons - it's literally a person talking about their experiences with a game and reason that it really doesn't work for them, and what they feel are issues to their own enjoyment of it. It's a fairly lighthearted subjective critique that a lot of people who had similar experiences with the games are resonating with.

Musubi said: People that keep calling this click bait have no idea what that term means. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Eh the title and thumbnail are definitely click baity, and the word ugly was used within the context of her initial throwaway line in a somewhat light hearted trolly way. I don't think the content of the video is clickbait by any means though, and any suggestion as such is silly.

TonyBaduy said: This is extremely reductive and she makes a point that, even though most would probably find it beautiful, she, as an art school graduate, doesn't find it that way. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I wouldn't really say her point was coming from "as an art school graduate, it's bad" POV, but more she mentioned the art degree to say "As someone with an art degree, I have the vocabulary and that perspective to talk about why these things in this thing bothered me". It may seem to be similar things, but it's not. Even if she hadn't gone to art school, she almost certainly would have had the same experience, she just may not have been able to word it as well as she otherwise is able to.

Roarschach

Member Dec 18, 2018 1,198 Honestly most roguelikes feel like that to me as well.

Axumar

Member May 13, 2020 482 I agree with the video on a lot of points. I couldn't play the original Horizon for similar reasons, but I also can't play a lot of modern games. Visual clutter is one thing. UI, gameplay, and speech add to the sensory overload. It's a clever video and I wish people would engage in the discussion instead of trying to dismiss/prove themselves right. Prev

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