How/When Does Darth Vader Figure Out Luke Is His Son?

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Jedi Council Forums Jedi Council Forums > Star Wars Films and Lucasfilm Projects > Classic Trilogy > How/When does Darth Vader figure out Luke is his son?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by DarthMaF, May 20, 2005.

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DarthMaF Jedi Youngling
Registered: May 20, 2005
I'm not meaning to nit-pick, but I am hoping for a supportable explanation, so please bear with me. At the end of Episode III, Darth Vader is unaware that he has any children. Throughout Episode 4, this fact does not seem to change. In episode 5, however, Vader is hell bent on trapping Luke, telling him he's his son, and bringing him over to the dark side. How is it that Vader figures out that there is a Luke Skywalker, and that he is his son? I know the last name is a give-away, but how does Vader find out that Luke exists? Explanations I don't buy: Darth Vader can sense it in the force. I don't buy it because you'd think Vader would realize that Leia is his daughter when he's torturing her on the Death Star. Plus, he recognizes that "The force is strong with this one" when he's flying behind Luke's X-Wing in his Tie Fighter, but doesn't seem to pick up on any familiar connection. I don't buy that the Emperor told him. Palpatine tells Anakin that Anakin himself is responsible for Padme's death at the end of Episode III. It would be an awkward conversation clearing that up later: ?Remember when I told you that you killed your own wife. Yeah, ? I was just kidding. She may have survived long enough to have a kid. I was just telling you that to spin you up. And that kid might be the runt who blew up our Death Star.? Additionally, there doesn?t seem to be any indication that the Emperor had any particular knowledge about the birth of even one of the children. If he did, you?d think he?d put finding him a little higher on his priority list. How hard would it be to find someone named ?Skywalker? living with Vader?s own half brother on Vader?s own home planet? Anyway, that?s my question and I thought this might be a good place to get some answers. Thank you so much!!!
DarthMaF, May 20, 2005 #1
Darth_Barbosa Jedi Youngling
Registered: May 20, 2005
Wow...You bring up some good points. Maybe the Emperor tells him? Sorry, but that's all I got.
Darth_Barbosa, May 20, 2005 #2
Ophidiophobic75 Jedi Youngling
Registered: Apr 6, 2005
my guess is that he puts two and two together and figures out sometime between a new hope and empire that the pilot who was strong with the force and destroyed the death star was his son. however, like many other important facts, like who count dooku is and that palpatine was captured by the separatists, he only briefly mentions it in the prologue to keep the fast pase story line going.
Ophidiophobic75, May 20, 2005 #3
Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan
Registered: Oct 10, 2004
You're overthinking this. It's very simple - a rebel was captured shortly after ANH. He was interrogated and wound up revealing the name of the rebel who destroyed the Death Star. Since Vader isn't an idiot, he put it together: force sensitivity + name + home planet + phsyical appearance = oh crap. Easy as that. Remember, there are three years between ANH and ESB. With Luke Skywalker becoming an increasingly important Alliance figure, it was bound to be discovered at some point or another.
Chaotic_Serenity, May 20, 2005 #4
zombie Jedi Master
Registered: Aug 4, 1999
Um...maybe you guys havent noticed, but its in the film itself, very explicitly ESB Emperor: I have no doubt that the rebel who destroyed the death star is the son of anakin skywalker. Vader: How is this possible? Emperor: Search your feelings Lord Vader, you know it to be true. He could destroy us. Vader: If he could be turned, he would be a powerful allie. Emperor: yes. Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done? Vader: He will join us or die. or something like that. Granted its only been added last year for the DVD but it is clearly in the films now. edit: Prior to that, i suppose the Empire found out that the "rebel who destroyed the death star" was one Luke Skywalker. Hence, "Vader is obsessed with finding him" not for personal reasons, but for vengeance on the Empire's behalf for destroying their public icon--later in the film he learns the person he has been hunting is in fact his own son! As soon as he finds out he quickly suggests an alternative to killing him, and convinces the Emperor to have him join them (of course planning to overthrow the Emperor)
zombie, May 20, 2005 #5
WLDB Jedi Padawan
Registered: Jan 11, 2004
Dosnt the orgiginal post violate the spoiler policy?
WLDB, May 21, 2005 #6
Strung_Guru Jedi Youngling
Registered: Apr 29, 2005
It's been a while since I read it so I might be mistaken, but doesn't Vader discover that Luke is his son during the events of Splinter of the Mind's Eye?
Strung_Guru, May 21, 2005 #7
Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan
Registered: Oct 10, 2004
No, I don't think so. SOTME was written before ESB came out, so he wouldn't have known either. ESB's new dialogue is more for the benefit of the audience than anything else. And Vader isn't in real shock there - he's playing dumb so the emperor won't know his true ambitions regarding Luke. Luke Skywalker was discovered through interrogation, spy-networking, and research. Simple as that. It was bound to happen.
Chaotic_Serenity, May 21, 2005 #8
Jedi knight Pozzi Jedi Grand Master
Registered: Apr 2, 2000
I remember flipping through a comic with Vader in it. Some rebel within the rebels was on some planet. Started talking smack about the hero of the rebellion, and was chased and caught. Much later, someone ran up to him with the name of the rebel who destroyed the DS, on a slip of paper. Vader went quiet. Then seemed to walk off. Remember, flipping through a comic. Not the best way to get information.
Jedi knight Pozzi, May 21, 2005 #9
Ophidiophobic75 Jedi Youngling
Registered: Apr 6, 2005
zombie - watch closer and you will find that vader already knows that it was skywalker hhis son, it says it in the prologue, vader was trying to keep luke's existence a secret from sidious the moment you are talking about was when sidious found out and vader was trying to pretend that he didn't already know
Ophidiophobic75, May 21, 2005 #10
Sanjiro Jedi Youngling
Registered: Mar 26, 2001
i see it as Vader found out sometime in between the movies. probably from interrogation of a Rebel. BUT. i don't think he automatically assumes that luke is his son. as he says to the Emperor later "How is that possible?" i think it's this way: name Skywalker + Tatooine + force sensitivty + Obi-Wan being with him = Who the HELL IS THIS? what is he doing with that name? he wants to get to the bottom of it. i don't think he really accepts the possibility that Luke is his son until the Emperor confirms it for him. and then he immediately talks palpatine out of killing him. that's my take. EDIT: i also think Vader was trying to keep it a secret from the Emperor. so his "How is that possible?" is half playing dumb and half really asking. because of what palpatine tells him at the end of ROTS.
Sanjiro, May 21, 2005 #11
zombie Jedi Master
Registered: Aug 4, 1999
I dont know, i still say that when its on screen, its on screen. Sure, Vader acts a bit cool to the news, but i cant imagine him reacting any more emotional than that. Theres nothing that really implies he knew beforehand so im going to accept the ESB as "the moment". Like i said, Vader was leading a campaign to avenge the Empire and the posterchild had since become Luke since he was the one responsible for the Empire's loss--the scene with Palpatine is wonderfully ironic since Vader learns the rebel he is after is also his son!
zombie, May 21, 2005 #12
Eternal_Jedi Jedi Grand Master
Registered: Sep 12, 2001
I think it's ridiculous to assume that Vader knew that a rebel by the name of Skywalker -- whom he sensed the Force was strong with during the battle -- destroyed the Death Star, but did not have any idea that he was his son. From the ESB opening crawl, Vader is "obsessed with finding young Skywalker." When the probe droid reports back, he is confident that "the rebels are there, and I'm sure Skywalker is with them." Vader isn't an idiot. He knew Padme was pregnant, and even though he thought she and her unborn child were dead, it wouldn't take him long to figure out that she had somehow lived long enough to have given birth. He sensed that the Force was strong with the rebel who fired that shot that destroyed the Death Star, and then learns that his name is Skywalker. There is no possible way that Vader would not immediately realize that Luke Skywalker was the child that Padme was carrying. When Palptine tells Vader in the modified DVD scene and Vader says "how is that possible?" he is obviously playing dumb. The Emperor has just learned the name of the rebel, and Vader had been keeping this knowledge to himself. The original dialogue in that scene also suggests that this was the first time Vader and Palpatine had discussed Luke Skywalker. Vader would have discovered, independently of Palpatine, the identity of the rebel who destroyed the Death Star and put two and two together. This is his chance to overthrow the Emperor, and he wasn't going to share this information. As ESB opens, he is obsessively searching for Luke, under the guise of searching for the rebels. ROTJ showed that Vader was able to sense Luke's presence on Endor, while Palpatine was not. Palpatine only learned of Luke Skywalker while Vader was already searching for him, thus commanding him to make contact immediately. Vader couldn't let Palpatine know that he already knew about his son and was searching for him, thus he says "how is that possible?" ESB as a film is driven by Vader's search for Luke; everything that occurs in the film is a result of this search. It makes no sense for Vader to be searching for Luke for the first part of the film if he doesn't know Luke is his son.
Eternal_Jedi, May 21, 2005 #13