I Blackened Titanium For Real, As Dark As Zirc

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You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. I Blackened Titanium For Real, As Dark As Zirc

• Thread starter Thread starter Pittknife
• Start date Start date Jun 1, 2015

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Pittknife

Joined Oct 1, 2013 Messages 901 Hi Guys, So after 2 months worth of research and testing I finally was able to make my own process of blackening titanium. This is not oxyclean, oxyclean does not make titanium dark black and you end up with uncontrollable colors. It looks cool, but is too inconsistent with different pieces of Ti and doesn't get dark like zirc. This is not a plating or any other process you need major industrial equipment for. I'm beyond excited about this, the kwaiken below was the first full knife mod I did it on. I will be using this process on my custom knives I'm making. *Here is how I do Black Titanium, there are a couple other makers that have done a similar process Pat Hammond, Lee Williams, Richard Rogers & Frank Fischer. [/URL][/IMG] [/URL][/IMG] [/URL][/IMG] Last edited: Jun 5, 2015

Lycosa

Joined Aug 24, 2007 Messages 43,271 Great work and a great folder. rolf L

Lo/Rez

Joined Feb 10, 2013 Messages 1,019 Nice folder with a good looking finish. B

Brian.Evans

Registered Member

Joined Aug 20, 2011 Messages 3,267 I would love to do that with some fixed blade scales. Could you share the process with us?

samclaymore

Joined Jun 7, 2014 Messages 854 Very nice Pittknife. Can you controll how dark they get, or is that the extent of it? And good Luck getting that one Brian. I personally would consider that a trade secret, for at least a little while lol.

Pittknife

Joined Oct 1, 2013 Messages 901 Hi Brian, let me talk to Frank & Richard to see if they would be alright with me sharing some of the process. While my process is different than theirs, I start with common steps to their process and if you can do mine you will be able to do theirs, it wouldn't be right for me to share their steps. I'll email them and see what they say.

Pittknife

Joined Oct 1, 2013 Messages 901 Hi Samclaymore, Yes, you can control how dark it gets. It can get a little darker than this to a lot less darker, but it seems everyone wants as black as you can get. I compared it to a piece of zirc I have and its a little darker than the zirc. I don't have a problem sharing the process, it's just that I have to ask first, I basically used their process as a starting point and added a lot more steps and took out some steps to get the results I wanted.

Jens Schuetz

Joined Jun 24, 2013 Messages 4,162 Nice. I have that Kwaiken and was thinking about anodizing it. Now black is even nicer. How durable is it? Even if you can't reveal the details would you be able to tell if it's doable with normal chemicals or normal garage tools? You mentioned warping which hints that some approach might involve high temps. How about yours? Is it expensive to get one blackened like this? Sorry just curious and would completely understand if you don't reveal anything at all. ☺

Pittknife

Joined Oct 1, 2013 Messages 901 Hi Jens, It's funny your mention durability, the first thing I did was test the finish for that. I compared it to 3 test pieces, 1- regular anodized to the high voltage blue, 2- green duracoat, 3- my black titanium. This was not scientific, just an informal test with stuff I had lying around. I scraped each with sandpaper moderately and the anodize rubbed off pretty easily, the duracoat flaked but the black Ti was only a bit hazy. I took all 3 to the wire wheel going at 3600 rpm, anodize came off, duracoat was gone and the black Ti showed no wear at all. This was pretty surprising, I had thought it would be similar to anodizing, but it's a lot more durable. To strip it, I had to spend some time on the wire wheel and heavy pressure, more than you would experience in edc. So, it is definitely a lot more durable than ano anodizing, I don't have any pvd, electro-plating or cerakote to test it against but if it's more durable than anodizing. I think wear wise, it will be fantastic as I noticed when I scratched it with rough sandpaper, it left scratches but they were black, same color. If you can make knives, you should have all the equipment and chemicals needed to do this. I'm definitely into sharing, I think we all help each other on here and in the knife community, but this isn't my process alone. I used Frank's & Richard's method to develop it, so out of respect I'll have to see if it is cool with them. Thanks

Jens Schuetz

Joined Jun 24, 2013 Messages 4,162

Pittknife said: Hi Jens, It's funny your mention durability, the first thing I did was test the finish for that. I compared it to 3 test pieces, 1- regular anodized to the high voltage blue, 2- green duracoat, 3- my black titanium. This was not scientific, just an informal test with stuff I had lying around. I scraped each with sandpaper moderately and the anodize rubbed off pretty easily, the duracoat flaked but the black Ti was only a bit hazy. I took all 3 to the wire wheel going at 3600 rpm, anodize came off, duracoat was gone and the black Ti showed no wear at all. This was pretty surprising, I had thought it would be similar to anodizing, but it's a lot more durable. To strip it, I had to spend some time on the wire wheel and heavy pressure, more than you would experience in edc. So, it is definitely a lot more durable than ano anodizing, I don't have any pvd, electro-plating or cerakote to test it against but if it's more durable than anodizing. I think wear wise, it will be fantastic as I noticed when I scratched it with rough sandpaper, it left scratches but they were black, same color. If you can make knives, you should have all the equipment and chemicals needed to do this. I'm definitely into sharing, I think we all help each other on here and in the knife community, but this isn't my process alone. I used Frank's & Richard's method to develop it, so out of respect I'll have to see if it is cool with them. Thanks Click to expand...

That sounds very exciting. Harder than anodizing and probably thicker since the scratches are black too. Im totally guessing of course but did you by any chance discover here a way to transform the surface of titanium into titanium nitrite (or nitrate) the black/dark grey and sometimes golden stuff some steel blades are covered with for more wear resistance? I haven't checked if anybody ever tried to do cover titanium with it or transform it's surface directly but theoretically it should be possible and maybe it's what you have done here. Did I say already, Exciting!!!!! L

Lo/Rez

Joined Feb 10, 2013 Messages 1,019 Does this process only work on titanium?

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR

Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Joined Aug 20, 2004 Messages 38,399 "...I'm definitely into sharing, I think we all help each other on here and in the knife community, but this isn't my process alone. I used Frank's & Richard's method to develop it, so out of respect I'll have to see if it is cool with them. Thanks ..." This is a very professional way to handle such situations. Knifemakers, as a whole, like to share. We would still be stuck back in the 50's doing 5160 and 1095 if it weren't for a group of folks who set the example in sharing. Bill Moran probably could have got a patent on his newly re-discovered method to make "Damascus", but instead he made a hand typed sheet of instructions on a borrowed typewriter, and ran copies on the hotel Mimeograph machine ( the great-great-grandfather of the modern office printer). He handed them out to any maker who wanted to know how that pattern was made....free. (He said it was harder to type the instructions with two fingers than to actually make a piece of damascus with a hammer.....took longer, too.)

Pittknife

Joined Oct 1, 2013 Messages 901

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said: "...I'm definitely into sharing, I think we all help each other on here and in the knife community, but this isn't my process alone. I used Frank's & Richard's method to develop it, so out of respect I'll have to see if it is cool with them. Thanks ..." This is a very professional way to handle such situations. Knifemakers, as a whole, like to share. We would still be stuck back in the 50's doing 5160 and 1095 if it weren't for a group of folks who set the example in sharing. Bill Moran probably could have got a patent on his newly re-discovered method to make "Damascus", but instead he made a hand typed sheet of instructions on a borrowed typewriter, and ran copies on the hotel Mimeograph machine ( the great-great-grandfather of the modern office printer). He handed them out to any maker who wanted to know how that pattern was made....free. (He said it was harder to type the instructions with two fingers than to actually make a piece of damascus with a hammer.....took longer, too.) Click to expand...

Hi Stacey, You are exactly right. I've learned so much on here and you also have helped me quite a bit with answering my heat treating problem. If it was a process I made from scratch I would of definitely posted already because I know people have been trying to do this for years. I just have to make sure it is cool with those guys first, since without them, I wouldn't of discovered this process.

Pittknife

Joined Oct 1, 2013 Messages 901

Jens Schuetz said: That sounds very exciting. Harder than anodizing and probably thicker since the scratches are black too. Im totally guessing of course but did you by any chance discover here a way to transform the surface of titanium into titanium nitrite (or nitrate) the black/dark grey and sometimes golden stuff some steel blades are covered with for more wear resistance? I haven't checked if anybody ever tried to do cover titanium with it or transform it's surface directly but theoretically it should be possible and maybe it's what you have done here. Did I say already, Exciting!!!!! Click to expand...

Hi Jens, I've seen TiN in dark color and gold, but this isn't a coating. There was another company that holds a patent on a black coating process that makes Titanium black. Mine is literally transforming the surface to black.

Jens Schuetz

Joined Jun 24, 2013 Messages 4,162

Pittknife said: Hi Jens, I've seen TiN in dark color and gold, but this isn't a coating. There was another company that holds a patent on a black coating process that makes Titanium black. Mine is literally transforming the surface to black. Click to expand...

That's what I meant. Instead of a TiN coating applied to a steel surface you might have changed the Ti surface itself to TiN. Maybe it's also something completely different. For example micro pores in a certain distance could also change colors of a surface. If you look at the chemicals used you might have a better idea. Maybe don't tell if it could be Ti changed to TiN unless you have permission because some smart ppl might reverse engineer the whole process much easier if they have a general direction to start with.

Pittknife

Joined Oct 1, 2013 Messages 901

Jens Schuetz said: That's what I meant. Instead of a TiN coating applied to a steel surface you might have changed the Ti surface itself to TiN. Maybe it's also something completely different. For example micro pores in a certain distance could also change colors of a surface. If you look at the chemicals used you might have a better idea. Maybe don't tell if it could be Ti changed to TiN unless you have permission because some smart ppl might reverse engineer the whole process much easier if they have a general direction to start with. Click to expand...

It's definitely not TiN, titanium nitride requires nitrogen and a vacuum oven which I do not have or would want in my garage, mainly because my wife would kill me during my sleep. I sent the emails asking permission to post, I'll make a full post if they agree.

Jens Schuetz

Joined Jun 24, 2013 Messages 4,162

Pittknife said: It's definitely not TiN, titanium nitride requires nitrogen and a vacuum oven which I do not have or would want in my garage, mainly because my wife would kill me during my sleep. I sent the emails asking permission to post, I'll make a full post if they agree. Click to expand...

Lol. Let's not do that. Nitrogen could be part of a chemical which reacts with the titanium. Ammonia for example. But I've no clue what chemicals might react with Ti and if they need heat or create some. I read somewhere that if Ti burns in normal air you get TiO2 and TiN. Though of curse that's kind of pointless since the result would be some powder/ ash and most of it would be TiO2 anyways. Still it shows that even if just air is involved in the reaction that there would be Nitrogen which could be processed. I still think it's possible that you created TiN Can't wait to see what really happened. Last edited: Jun 1, 2015 K

Ken H>

Joined Dec 31, 2011 Messages 4,695 I WILL be watching this thread - and to echo Stacy's comment of professional handling of sharing. Ken H>

Drew Riley

Joined Oct 17, 2007 Messages 4,280 Looks good. Would love to know how you did it!

samclaymore

Joined Jun 7, 2014 Messages 854 Did you do something simular to a parkerizing? Because I know Ti will patina & darken as it gets older. Stacy & ken, I was kidding about sharing. There are some very generous folks around here. Even in the unexpected spots, like Co. W&C.

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