I''ve Been Told That Killing Animals For Food Using Halal (Islamic) Or ...

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David Dreaming Bear, Horesethief Canyon, California USA

• I can't speak for Halal slaughter, but I do know about Kosher slaughter of animals. The "Shochet" - slaughterer - uses a special knife which has to be incredibly sharp and completely smooth (any nicks in the blade might tear the animal's flesh on the way down and cause pain). The knife should be able to cut smoothly and cleanly through the neck. The cut is made in a specific place in the neck, and although death isn't instantaneous (no method of slaughter is), the animal loses consciousness immediately due to the sudden drop of blood pressure in the head. Complete death results shortly after. As a comparison, let's look at some other methods of slaughter which are used. The "Captive Bolt Gun". Imagine a normal gun, but the bullet has a string attached to it so it flies out of the barrel, but can be reset and re-loaded again leaving nothing behind. Now take an animal, press this up against its skull and fire. Bolt goes into skull and pulled out again. Requires 4-5 shots normally to cause complete death, during which animal is in agony. Electrocution. Let's compare this with human executions in the electric chair. There have been cases where people being killed in the chair have caught fire and had smoke coming from their heads while still showing signs of life. Witnesses have been sick from the stench of burning flesh. Some researchers have said that being killed by electrocution would kill you by oxygen starvation (you couldn't breathe due to paralysis from the electricity), while at the same time being burnt alive. So much for a painless death! As long as people wish to eat animals (don't get me wrong, I'm a steak lover), we have to kill them first. And I truly believe that "Shechitah" - the method of slaughter for Kosher food - is the least painful for the animal concerned.

  Benjy Arnold, London UK

• I somehow doubt that slitting the throat and letting the animal bleed to death as required for Halal meat is 'less traumatic' than traditional slaughter.

  Sean DeLoughry, Dublin Ireland

• Err, you do know what those methods are, don't you? Personally, I'd have thought a slow death by blood loss to be rather worse than a one-shot blow to the temporal lobe, but I'm just guessing here; I've no desire to find out.

  Iain Lambert, Slough UK

• A friend spent some time as a slaughterman in the early 80s, and he explained at the time that kosher slaughter was more painful, messy and risky than the standard method. In the normal process, the beast is instantaneously stunned by the bolt through the skull to render it unconscious. It is then suspended by a hind leg and a small sharp knife is inserted to sever just the carotid artery in the neck. The bolt doesn't kill the beast because the heart is needed to continue beating for a while to expel as much blood as possible to avoid later infections. The beast dies painlessly from the blood loss. In contrast, the kosher method was to hoist the beast up by a hind leg whilst fully conscious (no other intervention being allowed), and the throat was cut in a wide ceremonial gash which severed not only the carotid artery but also the jugular vein. The distressed beast often reacted violently to this. It also increased the risk of infection, as the jugular vein would carry any contaminants from the cut back towards the heart for re-circulation throughout the body (and into the muscle tissues) before death. This seems likely to be the real situation, since if the Kosher method were better (in purely clinical terms) either for the beast or for the consumer, all meat would be Kosher.

  Tim Waterfield, Cambridge England

• "since if the Kosher method were better (in purely clinical terms) either for the beast or for the consumer, all meat would be Kosher."??!! Tim, have you accidentally wandered onto the Guardian site from fluffy bunny land or something? Obviously the interests of the food industry decide what method of slaughter is used. I'd imagine that criteria like cost come way above the interests of animals or consumers.

  Sophia Collins, London UK

• Would YOU rather be shot in the head, or have your throat slit?

  Wraith, Salford, UK

• A friend did a documentary on slaughterhouses in the early 90's. He saw cows on an electric grid recieve a jolt. Workers then went through with hammers to bash in the skulls of those not dead. He instantly became a vegetarian. Kosher methods were created with the best interests of the animals in mind. (Taking as a given that man's status at the top of the food chain does not impart the right to cause extra suffering.) The knife must be free of nicks so that the blade moves as fast and cleanly as possible. There may be more humane ways to kill a cow or chicken, but I doubt they are cost effective from a mass-production standpoint. Kosher meat is double or triple the price of non-kosher. Perhaps you could find a rancher who would be willing to let you kill a cow as gently as possible (wait til it's asleep? or give a gentle sedative?). But from a practical standpoint, an animal slaughtered kosher is likely to have suffered less than the non-kosher one.

  Lauri Reizes, Los Angeles USA

• Arguing over which methods of killing are more humane seems a bit pointless since the only ones who could tell you are dead.

  Seth, Edinburgh

• studies have been conducted in which monitors were placed on the brain of a cow being slaughtered using shechita (kosher slaughter) and ti turns out that it is acttually 100% painless. another intersting note is that 2500 years ago, when the rules of kosher were made, it was said that the animal must have split hooves and chew it's cud. interestingly, now 2500 years later we know a great deal of bilology and it turns out that the only species of animals that have split hooves and chew their cud, also just happen to have a certain artery that goes directly to their brain, as opposed to their heart as in all other animals (including humans). when this vein is cut it will be a painless death, because the animal will be instantly uncosious, whereas if you tried to slaughter any other animal in this method it would cause alot of suffereing. so, to answer that question "would YOU like to be shot in the head or have your throat cut?" well, i being human would prefer a shot in the head for the least painless death, but if i was a cow, or any other animal with split hooves and a cud, i'd be all for the throat slitting for the painless death. also, to clear up the misconseption about the animal still being alive while bleeding to death with shcita - this is true that the animal may still be living, but with the brain entirely unconsious it still does not experience any of the pain of death. the food industry will do whatever necesary to reduce cost, but if you truly care about the wellbeing of living things, buy kosher.

  Jeff, storrs, ct USA

• The Sikh traditional way of slaughter is to behead the animal in one stroke. Compared to all the methods I read above, it seems most efficent, and practical.

  Singh, London

• I think that everyone agrees that if we must kill animals for food then it is our duty as civilised human beings, to ensure that the animals are killed as quickly and humanely as possible. I find it impossible to believe that killing an animal by cutting its throat is either quick or humane.

  As a youngster I have seen animals slaughtered using a captive bolt - this is a quick, clean, instantaneous and therefore humane way to kill an animal. I never saw an occasion where it was necessary to use more than one shot !

  Peter Davies, Nottingham England

• Something all of the above seemed to have missed, This has nothing to do with animals feeling pain. It has every thing to do with Fluffy Liberals. From reading the PRO comments it's no surprise to read that it is the American Jews for the argument Kosher as usual. This whole process is to do with human guilt, not the pain of the animal- it is getting slaughtered for food. We need to eat, it just that some humans can't cope with the reality. So they pretend to care about the animals welfare and campaign for its welfare. Then they go home shove a big piece of beef in the oven and serve with 2 veg. Get a grip and get on with your life, You are at the top of the food chain, that is why you still live today. An animal is an animal there to be eaten when needed. You need to stop worrying about whether an animal feels pain when killed for you dinner and try and understand why our children are kidnapped and murdered for sex in all our countries. I'm sure they could make best use of your help rather than a cow. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

  Chris Wade, The Wirral, England

• Something all of the above seemed to have missed, This has nothing to do with animals feeling pain. It has every thing to do with Fluffy Liberals and from the PRO comments no surprise to read that it is the American Jews for the argument Kosher as usual. This whole process is to do with human guilt, not the pain of the animal, it is getting slaughtered for food. We need to eat, it just that some humans can't cope with the reality. So they pretend to care about the animals welfare and campaign for its welfare. Then they go home shove a big piece of beef in the oven and serve with 2 veg. Get a grip and get on with your life, You are at the top of the food chain, that is why you still live today. An animal is an animal there to be eaten when needed. You need to stop worrying about whether an animal feels pain when killed for you dinner and try and understand why our children are kidnapped and murdered for sex in all our countries. I'm sure they could make best use of your help rather than a cow. You should be ashamed of yourselves

  C Wade, Wirral England

• I was researching Halal and Kosher because I do care about animals feeling pain and which method to choose in minimising harm to the animal. I was a vegan but now feed my child a little meat every two weeks, I also care about our children in all countries. There is no back and white or clear answers and every body at some stage will disagree in this world but change starts with compassion and yes it does exist, for all including animal which we are as well,the plants and planet. I am aiming for balance not perfection.

  Bronwyn, Echuca Australia

• I believe that the kosher way to kill animals is the best way! First of all, it is painless for the animal so that is good. Secondly, if it is more expensive then don't buy it! Just let the religious Jewish people buy it and all the non-Jews can carry on buying their non-Kosher meat. This way the animals and humans are happy!

  Lauren R, England

• You are all of you deluded. An animal with its throat cut dies hideously. As does a human. It ain't nice. I love a steak or three but prefer to know that the beast was dead before being sliced up. Many are not. True fact.

  L. Kenneth Hortin, Mareeba Australia

• I couldn't give a crap how the animal is killed! I have no remorse for food

  Calderon, Melbourne AUS

• C Wade, Wirral. How very Catholic to say that we shouldn't get ourselves worked up over cows when there is so much other suffering in the world. That's like saying you shouldn't be happy because other people are more happy than you and that's what you should be thinking about. The fact is, no matter which method is used there will always be cases where the animal suffers, because, quite simply, it is being killed. Which is never nice. As long as there is work being done to make sure that its always performed as humanely as possible within the strictures presented, we should be grateful.

  Rhian McComb, Preston, England

• I am a meat lover, and I love all meats except for pork. I had a fresh meat delivery business in London for over 12 years, and from my experience, the tastiest, the juiciest and most tender meat is always without doubt Halal or Kosher, whether it be beef, chicken or lamb! To add, I actually have 2 dogs, a cat and a parrot at home, I do love animals too and would hate to see mine die in any sort of way to say the least! I understand and can see how and why society feels for the animals.. and cares for the animals welfare etc, because i feel the same too.. but guys and girls don't be brainwashed! Don't be so ignorant to reality.. if you want to have a steak? Or you want KFC or a burger? Then know the reality is that it is flesh of a once living animal which you will eat! This alone, just by eating animal flesh is potentially cannibalism or animal cruelty or inhumane! Besides, if halal and kosher were so widely available, i think price of meat would be much higher because of the manpower involved in it compared to bolts and Electric.. To conclude, animals regardless how we see it, suffer less with a slit! It may look horrific and barbaric, but I have seen the 2 extreme opposite types of abattoirs, believe you me, the face on the dying animal is as sad, bad and ugly as the other method!!! For me, and for the professional people I meet, always in favour of halal or kosher.. also think about the diseases in the blood... how is AIDs transferred... by blood.. we are humans(smartest on the planet) and we still catch AIDs.. imagine animals how many diseases can easily be contained in their blood. It's healthier and more clean to drain the blood from the animal the halal or kosher way. the bolt or electric is a shock, causes major adrenalin rush, and causes blood clots.. because the brain doesn't know what's happening, and the heart doesn't know how to beat any more and the blood doesn't pump around the veins properly, so a lot more blood in the veins will be trapped compared to halal and kosher... its better the animal knows its dying as part of eating a cleaner and healthier meat... last but not least - it's the price you pay for the life you chose! So if you want meat to eat, there will never be any humane way to eat it! It's got the price of being an inhumane type of food.. for God's sake if you are so offended by it, then turn to being a vegetarian! Thanks for reading! x

  Samuel Howard, London, United Kingdom

• I've just watched a video on you tube of a Mercy Halal Slaughter by Sam Kouka (who looks kind of biblical). It was done on a small scale in a more natural environment If only it was true that all Halal meat was slaughtered this way but somehow I doubt it is. I saw a different video on halal slaughter in Belgium and it seemed as bad as any other type of slaughter because of the intensive methods. I think that's a big part of the problem: the scale of the slaughter will always compromise compassion and care. Just as with intensive factory farming, intensive slaughter is subject to all sorts of abuses to animals because on that scale, profit is the only interest. Isn't that questionable and abhorrent to any decent person (be they Muslim, Jew, Christian or atheist)? I accept we're at the top of the food chain (and I do eat meat 3 times a week), I also try to eat halal or kosher meat because: 1. It will have been blessed in God's name (a solemn blessing that takes into account the sacrifice the animal is making for our well being). 2. The blood is drained. Muslims (and Jews) are not allowed to consume blood. I can't be sure that non-halal/non-kosher meat has been drained of most of its blood so it feels somewhat unclean to me. I would rather my meat was organic, free-range and halal/kosher and killed in the most humane method and setting possible. Why do all these values have to be at odd with each other? I do think the scale of slaughter is a major contributor to the cruelty (and makes it harder to monitor welfare and methods). A lot of meat is wasted too. I accept that there are more people but that places even more responsibility on our shoulders to act mercifully and humanely.

  Kelly Al-Saleh, Clapton, East London United Kingdom

• I don't think many people really consider how animals are bred or killed. They live according to there means and usually just buy meat that is processed, prepared, packed and looks nothing like sn animal. Only when animal cruelty is highlighted in the media are people horrified but not enough to chsnge their dietary habits. Only if it is a human health hazard and the Environmental Health or Government steps in do people respond. Don't think there would be a good way to be slaughtered but no doubt the environment, method and person doing the depatching could make it worse.

  K Dewar , Dundee Scotland