Korean/China Fly Rods Vs Us Made? - Spey Pages

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smsnyder S What is your thoughts on Korean/China made fly rods vs US Made fly rods. Same material just less labor cost. There must be huge markups in US made rods because you can buy many of them for half price or less when discontinued. After buying many many fly rods over the years I think the Orvis Clearwater fly rods (Made in China) are the best bang for the buck and 25 year warranty. My favorite US made fly rods are Sage with G loomis Next. #1 · Jun 8, 2019 What is your thoughts on Korean/China made fly rods vs US Made fly rods. Same material just less labor cost. There must be huge markups in US made rods because you can buy many of them for half price or less when discontinued. After buying many many fly rods over the years I think the Orvis Clearwater fly rods (Made in China) are the best bang for the buck and 25 year warranty. My favorite US made fly rods are Sage with G loomis Next. Sort by Oldest first Oldest first Newest first Most reactions #2 · Jun 8, 2019 (Edited) I bought a very nice 4 wt rod from a startup called Allen Fly Fishing some five or six years ago that was made in South Korea. I also bought a nicely turned large arbor trout reel for this same rod that was also from Korea. If it is a machined casting they sure have fooled me, it's that nice and it was very inexpensive though I do not remember the price or details further. I believe they make some really fine quality gear, much to my earlier surprise. Generally speaking, their manufacturing prowess is easily our equal now. It hasn't always been that way... Purely anecdotal...I served two years just short of the DMZ with the 2nd Infantry Division during '67 - '69, and I remember ALL the roads were dirt or impassible mud depending on the season, rice paddies everywhere with their attendant water buffalo, the first Toyota I had ever seen, and no manufacturing that I can recall in my area. No antifreeze was available, so in winter they would build small fires under the engine blocks of their GI surplus trucks to thaw them out. And a night out with some of the local talent would cost a couple packs of smokes and a pair of D-cell batteries, or $5 if you had rank and could afford it (as a PFC you made about $96 per month). I also recall they had their artisans. Leather craft, tailors, exquisite cabinet makers who worked with abalone shell [edit: mother of pearl] and enamels either black or red, and they seemed to be able to resurrect anything the GI's threw away as non-repairable. Unquestionably the hardest working people I have ever known, then or now. #3 · Jun 8, 2019 South Korea knows how to machine and roll blanks. I really go out of my way to not use any Chinese gear. #5 · Jun 9, 2019 Knowing how to roll out bank is one thing , however designing taper is other thing. Kerry Burkheimer has been designing, making his own blacks and assembling them fro year, producing extremely well refined SH and DH rods. Even rod makers like Sage do everything in house. Everybody can access the same materials. Only because an artist or "artist' has great paints, it does not always translate to a great piece of art.... Machine made modern fly reels is a completely different story, albeit a good design is always important. Show more replies 0 Reply #4 · Jun 9, 2019 I have a smidgen of experience with fly rods from across the Pacific, but what I've seen is intriguing. Last year I bought an 8' 3" 3-weight for a friend who's a beginning fly angler, handicapped by poor fly tackle. I tested it with 3- and 4-weight lines. It's competently styled and finished, with a good medium action, although it's no Winston. Cost: $35. Since last winter, I've been getting to know an Aventik 4 piece, 11 1/2 foot switch rod; rated as a 7/8, I call it a pure 8-weight with a fast action. It's beautiful, with good cork, a burl wood reel seat, an olive green shaft, and an extra tip, inside the usual Cordura-covered PVC case. It would be at home as an American-made switch rod in the upper-middle price range. It cost me $130 plus a few bucks for shipping. Aventik and Maxcatch are producing spey (and one-hand) fly lines in various configurations, all for chump change. Speaking of chumps... we can enjoy good tackle at amazing prices (Want a 6-section spey rod? You can buy a Gaelforce for over a grand, or you can buy one from China for slightly over a C-note). But consider that there may be a less than generous agenda behind it. Did you happen to study economics in college, and learn about a thing called Mercantilism? #10 · Jun 9, 2019 You will probably have that Aventik forever with no problems and fish it with a smile on your face. Whereas Ive had the same 100% American made rod that shall go unnamed (H2) in three times for repairs. 0 Reply #7 · Jun 9, 2019 If Lefty Kreh was consulted in the design/test phase on a series of TFO rods, that is enough for me to take that rod seriously. I will add my long time friend and protege of Lefty...Ed Jaworoski...is also a major part of rod design and taper at TFO...and that is also good enough for me too. Tough rods to beat for the money!!! #8 · Jun 9, 2019 NM- - - On target with your economics. While I have gotten past worrying about such things by focusing on fishing theses days, it does occasionally come to mind that some folks who flaunt their academic education, really should consider asking for a tuition refund. #9 · Jun 9, 2019 Rod origin today reminds one of the auto industry. If engines are made in Mexico, and transmissions in Canada, but the car is assembled in Ohio--is it an "American" car? Or not? How about Subarus assembled in Indiana--American or Japanese? With the exception of some builders, perhaps like Burkheimer for instance, I'm guessing some components of many makers, whether they be reelseats, guides etc. are foreign sourced. I'm not sure without insider knowledge we can ever know where things are made these days. #11 · Jun 10, 2019 I think that a good fly rod doesn't know or care who made it where it was made. Korean and Chinese manufacturers will make whatever their customer wants. They may not, and often don't, have the designer or designs needed for a quality product, but if that is provided, they can produce a product to its design specifications, just as an American manufacturer can. I try to not discriminate over the origin of gear, but over its quality. But I do have a weakness for certain fly reels made in England. #12 · Jun 10, 2019 (Edited) Fourteen years ago I was given a personal tour of Hardy's in Alnwick (pronounced Ann-ick) and saw the piles of graphite rod sections made in the Far East to Hardys specifications, sections not just for rods but also the aerospace industry which Hardys have long been connected with. Presumably, the quality was there. Hardys used to have the Fibatube section of their company which rolled their own fibre glass and later graphite rod sections, from 1969, also making blanks for other companies, plus selling blanks to anglers. Fibatube also made products totally unrelated to the fishing tackle industry, amongst which were: Gas detector probes, Rocket tubes, Wing tubes for Formula One racing cars, Radome tubes (defence) Orthopaedic tubes, Underwater sonar devices, Man-marker shafts, Fixed aerial masts, Metal detector shafts, Temperature probes, Vaulting poles, Artificial limbs, Barra Sonnobuoy project, Mace shafts, Tent poles, Badminton racquet shafts, Golf club shafts, Ammeter tubes, Earth leak line tubes, Drug snifing booms, Tactical masts, Bomb hoists, Canoe paddles. In answer to the original question. Graphite rods usually have a fair amount of cheaper fibre glass mixed in the cloth, so presumably cheaper rods may well be more glass than graphite. In fishing, as in life, you tend to get what you pay for, much of the pleasure derived comes from that 'state of mind'. Cheaper rods may seem to perform just fine but may lack that sense of 'quality' of the more expensive rods not made in the Far East; the fittings are usually pretty basic and the cork is mostly heavily filled, the varnish gloopy around the guides. However, they do the job just fine usually and these days they may do that job almost as well as any out there. I have a few Far East made rods but find that they do not get much use for my fishing generally. I have a few Hardys from the 70's and 80's which I treasure. As an aside, I am very grateful for one material from China, bamboo. For the first time yesterday I took inventory not knowing the amount I have, also thinking it would do the bamboo culms some good to place them on the deck to bask in the hot sun. I read notes I had made on the butt end, of dates plus price at the time my three batches (ordered in bulk with friends) came in. First ones were from 2001 and were $19 each including shipping.. that price seems to have jumped in the years since. I saw that I have more than I thought, an amount which, if I make one rod per year, should see me into my mid eighties, a consoling but somewhat sobering thought. Malcolm #13 · Jun 10, 2019 I would not hesitate to buy a rod made in China. But I would definitely prefer that design and marketing were handled by a North American or European based company. That would, should ideally take care of the quality control issue.... most of the time. A Canada-based company started marketing over a decade ago fly rods made in China. The 2-hand 12' 6" 7/8 wt. rod was awful. The lower part of the rod literally buckled when it was hit hard. I have no idea whether that problem was ever fixed but I did meet a steelheader a few years later who very happily and successfully casting light Skagit heads with the upper part of the same rod. As for Orvis.... I have not cast any of their recent 2-hand offerings and cannot comment but frankly I still have not recovered from the awful single-handers Orvis put out in the late 1970s. They were not awful because of quality control or materials but rather awful because of design. Always assumed that those rods were designed in the USA. Come to think of it, SAGE has also put out some real dawgs over the years and there are many SAGE rods that I have absolutely loved/still love. So maybe I should work on my confirmatory bias. The Chinese are steadily putting out better and better electronics/information technology devices. Whether similar advances will be made in other areas of manufacturing remains to be seen. I recall all the put downs and slurs that Japanese "cheap" manufactured goods received in the 1960s. Within a few years, the Japanese were making electronics and optical devices that were world class. #14 · Jun 10, 2019 Most interesting thread...and a simple thought from me. On one of my recent visits to a local fly shop the discussion centered on the cross section of rod models and the price ranges of those rods. I said then and I still truly believe 99% of the people who walk through the door of your basic Orvis store are incapable of making the $200 Clearwater models perform to their limit, let alone the $900 Helios 3. Yet people will spend the money for that $900 rod because they believe it will make them better fishermen and women. Good marketing I suppose...and not just by Orvis, but a laundry list of manufacturers. Learn to cast and any rod will do the trick. I still use and cherish my cane rods. They get the job done and give a certain aesthetic pleasure to my day on the stream...but that's for trout. When chasing Atlantic Salmon...graphite is the choice of the day. Much more efficient tool!!! #18 · Jun 11, 2019 I think you are spot on with your comments about most anglers not being able to tap the full potential of price point rods. I freely admit that I am probably well within that 99% figure you mentioned. I don’t know about buying more expensive, or better marketed equipment being done in the hopes of becoming a better angler though. For me, and I don’t think I’m alone here at all; I will sometimes splurge a bit on some more costly goods mostly because I hope they will be more fun. “Fun” is a pretty broad term of course, and is derived in a variety of ways. For me personally, there is a noticeable joy in picking up a nicely made piece of gear that performs well; however, I would say that added level of pleasure is pretty small when compared dollars to dollars against the fun times and memories I get from spending that money to go on a fishing trip! My problem is that I am frequently finding the “need” for a new rod, reel, or line, or tying materials, etc for each upcoming trip. As for the bigger questions about buying imported rods/blanks from overseas, I’m pretty mixed. I have a decent percentage of cheaper foreign made rods/blanks in my quiver, and have been quite happy with the value to performance ratio. I do have concerns for how some of the smaller companies, will be affected over the long term. Same concerns really for how the fly shops will survive in the online sales discount wars. Unfortunately, I really don’t think that any one of us will ever be able to reverse that tide. I think it’s here to stay whether we like it or not. JB 0 Reply #15 · Jun 10, 2019 I bought a 7 1/4 foot 4 weight bamboo fly rod. The blank was made in Korea. I love the rod. Fun to fish with. #16 · Jun 11, 2019 I purchased a new Korean made Hardy 4" Bougle reel in 2012. The machining on this reel is excellent and it runs like a fine watch! So glad I got it before Hardy switched the production back to England. By contrast my 4" Hardy Perfect purchased new in 2016 was made in England and doesn't come close in quality. #17 · Jun 11, 2019 Interesting...I bought a English made Hardy Cascapedia 4/5 last year and it is flawless. Just a beautiful piece of work. One reason I admit to a little surprise about the Perfect is today's reels are all made on computerized equipment...not cast then finished by hand in the traditional sense. In a conversation I had with John Shaner about that he told me back in the day...on average 1 out of 3 reels were rejected as unacceptable...but with today's machined/computer made reels there are no rejects. Like I said earlier this is indeed a fascinating thread. 0 Reply #19 · Jun 11, 2019 I was there from '68 - '69, on the DMZ as well. The guys had to run the trucks all night to keep them from freezing up. But one thing I learned was that the Korean people could imitate anything so it figures that they would eventually get into manufacturing of all types. Some of the reels they build have better tolerances than the originals. The rods are pretty good, to, depending on the graphite used. Insert Quotes Post Reply

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