MAPP Gas Is DISCONTINUED!! - The Melting Pot

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  1. 03-11-2008, 08:49 AM #1 DesignsOnTheHeath's Avatar DesignsOnTheHeath
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    DesignsOnTheHeath is offline Glass-a-holic Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 2 Rep Power 0

    Default MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    I don't know if anyone here is aware, or if it's been posted yet, but Petromont, the company that is the sole North American supplier of MAPP gas is no longer producing MAPP gas and is closing its Canadian operations indefinitely! I just found out last night when I was looking at the site that delivers fuels in my area. They have a pdf about that and that they have made a new gas called Map-Pro. They say that the new gas burns hotter-good?, or bad??? Hotter would be quicker but I wonder if it will burn the glass... Here is a link to their pdf: http://www.worthingtoncylinders.com/...nce_021908.pdf Worthington is the brand of most of my MAPP cylinders, and they are the ones who are making the new gas. I am going to call my local gas delivery company and see if I can get some specs on the Map-Pro. I was just going to switch from cylinders to a bulk tank but now I'm not sure if I'll need to go with propane or if I might be able to get just a small cylinder of the Map-Pro to try out. If I get any info on the new gas, I'll post it. Smiles, Sue
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  2. 03-11-2008, 10:17 AM #2 Mike_Aurelius's Avatar Mike_Aurelius
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    Mike_Aurelius is offline Glass-a-holic Higher Learning MemberVendor BadgeWiki BadgeSupporter BadgeNinja Badge Join Date Jun 2005 Location Sauk Rapids, Minnesota Posts 2,568 Rep Power 61

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    They call it a "premium fuel"...and they are probably going to charge through the nose for it.
    Aura Visual Concepts website Chaotic Glass a blog by Mike Aurelius By the Blood of Patriots an e-novel
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  3. 03-11-2008, 01:20 PM #3 DesignsOnTheHeath's Avatar DesignsOnTheHeath
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    DesignsOnTheHeath is offline Glass-a-holic Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 2 Rep Power 0

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Here is what I've found out so far (not much yet); "the guy" told me that they have chemoline, but said that's usually used with oxygen and wasn't sure if it can be used without it. He's checking on that and if the hot head torch would even be compatible with that type of gas, I'm thinking it won't be. He is also going to try and get me some info on the Map-Pro. I'll post any updates as I get them. Smiles, Sue
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  4. 03-11-2008, 07:20 PM #4 Dale M.
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    Dale M. is offline Glass-a-holic Join Date Jun 2005 Location A Tiny Bit West of Yosemite Valley Posts 468 Rep Power 22

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Here is a listing of alternate fuels that can be used in place of MAPP. http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7 Dale
    http://www.artglassanswers.comhttp://www.artglassanswers.com/vast/
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  5. 03-11-2008, 07:21 PM #5 jiminyrootkit's Avatar jiminyrootkit
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    jiminyrootkit is offline Chair of the Joint Subcommittee Join Date Jun 2005 Posts 1,862 Rep Power 33

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    i thought chemolene was a sort of propane additive that made a real reducing fire? could be wrong, never used it personally, but there's an antique thread on it around here somewhere. -f
    ************************************************* I promise to comfort the afflicted, and to afflict the comfortable. That I will never accept what I am told. That I will never fall in love with safety and forget liberty. I promise that I will look for the lie in every pretty story, and the bribe in every convenience.
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  6. 03-11-2008, 08:32 PM #6 menty666's Avatar menty666
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    menty666 is offline Borovangelist Higher Learning Board MemberTMP VIP0-1 years in glass!1-6 years in glass!7-12 years in glass!TMP VIPTMP VIPSupporter BadgeNinja Badge Join Date Jul 2006 Location Auburn, MA Posts 5,880 Rep Power 121

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    I vaguely recall it being mentioned in Bandhu's book
    Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around, and desert you.
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  7. 03-11-2008, 08:38 PM #7 Udai Hussien's Avatar Udai Hussien
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    Udai Hussien is offline Professional "tardfucker" Wiki BadgeSupporter Badge Join Date Jun 2005 Location Passing the Gential Germ around N.C. for over 30 years Posts 8,573 Rep Power 0

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    MAPP gas? who the hell uses that shit? Not even plumbers
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  8. 03-12-2008, 04:59 AM #8 Brian Newman's Avatar Brian Newman
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    Brian Newman is offline Just another unique individual, like all the rest. Higher Learning MemberNinja Badge Join Date Aug 2005 Location Hamilton, Ontario Posts 1,862 Rep Power 28

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Udai Hussien View Post MAPP gas? who the hell uses that shit? Not even plumbers Bead ladies who want a little more heat out of their hot-head torches.
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  9. 03-12-2008, 05:37 AM #9 Mike_Aurelius's Avatar Mike_Aurelius
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    Mike_Aurelius is offline Glass-a-holic Higher Learning MemberVendor BadgeWiki BadgeSupporter BadgeNinja Badge Join Date Jun 2005 Location Sauk Rapids, Minnesota Posts 2,568 Rep Power 61

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Newman View Post Bead ladies who want a little more heat out of their hot-head torches. Jeebus, here we go again...
    Aura Visual Concepts website Chaotic Glass a blog by Mike Aurelius By the Blood of Patriots an e-novel
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  10. 03-12-2008, 05:53 AM #10 susheke's Avatar susheke
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    susheke is offline Glass-a-holic Supporter BadgePlastic Free Badge Join Date Mar 2006 Location Exeter, NH Posts 13,859 Rep Power 48

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Actually, many beginner classes taught at local bead shops use a small mapp gas cannister attached to the hot head. It is an affordable, easy way to set up and break down a class situation. The student can walk away with a couple hours of torch time in their hand. She (or he) can then buy a few more for $10 a piece and see if flameworking is something they want to explore. People also use the set up for demonstrations.
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  11. 03-12-2008, 05:57 AM #11 Brian Newman's Avatar Brian Newman
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    Brian Newman is offline Just another unique individual, like all the rest. Higher Learning MemberNinja Badge Join Date Aug 2005 Location Hamilton, Ontario Posts 1,862 Rep Power 28

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Let me rephrase myself. Soft glass lampworkers using air for their flames oxygen source.
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  12. 03-12-2008, 11:18 AM #12 jiminyrootkit's Avatar jiminyrootkit
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    jiminyrootkit is offline Chair of the Joint Subcommittee Join Date Jun 2005 Posts 1,862 Rep Power 33

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Newman View Post Let me rephrase myself. Soft glass lampworkers using air for their flames oxygen source. oh. so bead ladies on a hot head? -f
    ************************************************* I promise to comfort the afflicted, and to afflict the comfortable. That I will never accept what I am told. That I will never fall in love with safety and forget liberty. I promise that I will look for the lie in every pretty story, and the bribe in every convenience.
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  13. 03-12-2008, 12:22 PM #13 ShttrdSpctrm's Avatar ShttrdSpctrm
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    ShttrdSpctrm is offline Skill Level: Dangerous Join Date Aug 2006 Posts 1,658 Rep Power 25

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    somebody's gonna get the BLM to come out and play. watch yourself, they dont f-around.
    I'm a slow typer...........a so-so writer been the shit ever since I was an infant in diapers
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  14. 03-12-2008, 12:27 PM #14 phab's Avatar phab
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    phab is offline Glass-a-holic Higher Learning MemberSupporter Badge Join Date Jun 2005 Location seattle Posts 3,227 Rep Power 52

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    ...no wonder i didnt care.
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  15. 03-12-2008, 12:49 PM #15 Shadow's Avatar Shadow
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    Shadow is offline New Wings Plastic Free BadgeGraphics Badge Join Date Jun 2006 Location Missouri Posts 5,259 Rep Power 34

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Now come on boys... play nice. the HH is a great way to test the waters. it is inexpensive, easy to set up and takes a lot of abuse. It can even (given enough time) melt boro. Sure you cannot do lots with it, but it is a good starting tool Not all of us have a lot of $ or time or even room to play with fire, so this little dragon (very little LOUD dragon) is a good investment. it also teached yuo a LOT about the glass. working a HH teached you patience ( low heat here) and fine control (believe me you learn control when you set up outside in the wind... got to find that sweet spot!) this from a BLM who does occasionally get out her dragon and melts some glass...
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  16. 03-12-2008, 09:14 PM #16 richsantaclaus's Avatar richsantaclaus
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    richsantaclaus is offline Glass-a-holic Join Date Jan 2006 Location Riverside Southern California Posts 1,588 Rep Power 49

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    I hope this helps those who did use MAPP gas. Received from Gordon Willey at Worthington Cylinders: Fuel Flame Properties Acetylene MAPP /MPS MAP-Pro Propane Butane Methane Flame Temperature[1] (In Oxygen) - oF 5560 5390[2] 5360 5110 5150 5090 Flame Temperature4 (In Air) - oF 4690 3750[3] 3730 3600 3580 3550 Flame Speed4 (Cv) (In Oxygen) - Ft./Sec 24.9 15.4 12.8 10.9 10.9 12.8 Flame Speed4 (Cv) (In Air) - Ft./Sec 4.8 3.5 3.3[4] 1.7 1.2 1.3 Primary Flame Heat Value[5] (Ch) - BTU/cu.ft. 507 571 438 255 315 11 Secondary Flame Heat Value8 (Ch) - BTU/cu.ft. 963 1889 1962 2243 3114 989 Total Heat Value8 (Ch) - BTU/cu.ft. 1470 2460 2400 2498 3374 1061 Total Heat Value of Gas[6] (after vaporization) (Ch) BTU/lb 21,500 21,000 21,100 21,800 21,5008 23,900 Volume to weight ratio9 Ft3/lb @60oF 14.6 8.9 8.9 8.7 6.48 23.6 Combustion Intensity Primary flame In Air (Ch x Cv) – Btu/ft2 sec 2,433 1998 1445 433 378 14 Combustion Intensity Secondary flame In Air (Ch x Cv)– Btu/ft2 sec 4622 6112 6494 3813 3736 1285 Combustion Intensity In Air (Total heat) - Btu/ft2 sec 7055 8110 7939 4246 4114 1299 Air Fuel – atmospheric air mixed with fuel in torch assembly prior to combustion Oxy Fuel – pure oxygen supplied from cylinders mixed with fuel in the torch assembly prior to combustion Flame Speed – velocity of fuel mixture at the reaction zone; speed is dependent upon flame temperature Primary Flame – interior cone or shell of the combustion zone with a characteristic blue/white color Secondary Flame – exterior cone of combustion zone were gaseous products mix with surrounding air identifiable by its darker blue color Heat Value – hotter burning fuels generally have higher heat content (BTU’s) in the primary flame Combustion Intensity – product of the heat value x the flame speed of the gas; directly dependent on flame temperature [1] Air Liquide – Gas Encyclopedia, Gas Data Sheets [2] TWI-UK- Job Knowledge for welders 49, http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/protected/band_3/jk49.html [3] The Fabricator – Nov. 1999 - Selecting the best gas, Jeffrey P. Johnson [4] Eclipse – Combustion Engineering Guide, 1986 [5] Bernzomatic – Product Knowledge Guide [6] AWS - Welding Handbook –1978, Volume Two, Table 13.1
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/MRnMRS?ga_s...facet=handmade http://www.santasbling.com National Geographic photos - click on links at my web site
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  17. 03-12-2008, 09:50 PM #17 Udai Hussien's Avatar Udai Hussien
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    Udai Hussien is offline Professional "tardfucker" Wiki BadgeSupporter Badge Join Date Jun 2005 Location Passing the Gential Germ around N.C. for over 30 years Posts 8,573 Rep Power 0

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Newman View Post Bead ladies who want a little more heat out of their hot-head torches. LOL correct!!!
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  18. 03-12-2008, 09:53 PM #18 Udai Hussien's Avatar Udai Hussien
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    Udai Hussien is offline Professional "tardfucker" Wiki BadgeSupporter Badge Join Date Jun 2005 Location Passing the Gential Germ around N.C. for over 30 years Posts 8,573 Rep Power 0

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post Now come on boys... play nice. the HH is a great way to test the waters. it is inexpensive, easy to set up and takes a lot of abuse. It can even (given enough time) melt boro. Sure you cannot do lots with it, but it is a good starting tool Not all of us have a lot of $ or time or even room to play with fire, so this little dragon (very little LOUD dragon) is a good investment. it also teached yuo a LOT about the glass. working a HH teached you patience ( low heat here) and fine control (believe me you learn control when you set up outside in the wind... got to find that sweet spot!) this from a BLM who does occasionally get out her dragon and melts some glass... why not invest like 30 bucks more and get a national? I still never saw the use for a hothead. Its the Ez-bake oven of the glass community. sure, you can make a cake with it, but it's still just a toy
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  19. 03-12-2008, 11:47 PM #19 richsantaclaus's Avatar richsantaclaus
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    richsantaclaus is offline Glass-a-holic Join Date Jan 2006 Location Riverside Southern California Posts 1,588 Rep Power 49

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    I'd like to see these haters make beads on a HH and maybe they'd understand it's purpose. It's easy to bash something you've never tried or been good at. My opinion only but I'll happily accept a challenge from one of the haters to make a focal bead using a HH only in soft glass.
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/MRnMRS?ga_s...facet=handmade http://www.santasbling.com National Geographic photos - click on links at my web site
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  20. 03-13-2008, 04:42 AM #20 BSD_Radiant_Glass
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    BSD_Radiant_Glass is offline Glass-a-holic Join Date Nov 2006 Location Madison, WI Posts 11 Rep Power 0

    Default Re: MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

    I'm a hot glass blower and there are a ton of things in the hot shop that a MAPP cylinder on an autolight plumbers torch will do for us. They're super portable and very quick to grab and light. They're great for quick polishing cut marks on bit work or parts or whatnot. I'd agree that a ranger on a gas saver might be a better torch for almost everything, but my $30 plumbers torch has been running the same cylinder of MAPP gas since 2003. I wrote it on the tank. It's WAY hotter and faster than trying to do the same things with a propane bottle. I do have a national 6b on a gas saver that I use to fire polish punty marks before I box blown stuff in the oven. It's plumbed with natural gas and oxy so isn't super portable, but with a longer hose I could wheel it anywhere in my shop. I used to run it with propane, but the 20# cylinders are not legal to use or store inside so I hooked it up to the wall. For most around the shop stuff, we grab the MAPP. I'm just saying, there's a lot of way to work with glass. I'm gonna pick up 2 cylinders to keep in stock so I don't run out until 2020. BSD
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