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You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. ménage à trois

• Thread starter Thread starter dd333
• Start date Start date Feb 28, 2018

D

dd333

New Member

English What does 'ménage à trois' mean among French people? When a French person uses this term, when speaking French, what are they referring to? Are they referring to a threesome, or are they referring to some type of relationship? Would a French person say (in the French equivalent), 'I'm having a ménage à trois tonight'. Or would they say they are in a ménage à trois type of relationship, as an ongoing thing? Does that make any sense? How do the French use it among themselves? Quite curious to hear from French native speakers.

guillaumedemanzac

Banned

Aquitaine English - Southern England Home Counties What is your definition in English? Menage-a-trois without accents is English for a sexual relationship where 3 people are involved - not always living in the same house which is what the menage should mean. e.g. He's in a weird menage-a-trois with the two sisters. She's got herself involved in a menage-a-trois with a gay couple from Brighton.

Yendred

Senior Member

Paris Français - France "J'ai un ménage à trois ce soir" is meaningless in French. In French, "être en ménage" means to have a lasting relationship with someone. So "un ménage à trois" is a lasting relationship with two other people. The sexual meaning of this expression is not present in French. To specifically mean a sexual "one-shot" relation with two other people, we will say "un plan à trois" (= a threesome). Last edited: Feb 28, 2018

guillaumedemanzac

Banned

Aquitaine English - Southern England Home Counties D'accord!! French definition!! but threesome in English is just hanging out/going out as a "three-group", not sexual unless specified in the context of three people living or sleeping together. We're going out somewhere and I really need a chaperone - could you possibly make up a threesome? He's got a weird situation living in a small flat with both sisters. I think they're "in a threesome." contexte is all because threesome can be either in English. Last edited: Feb 28, 2018

Yendred

Senior Member

Paris Français - France

guillaumedemanzac said: but threesome in English is just hanging out/going out as a "three-group", not sexual unless specified. Click to expand...

Ok thanks for the precision!

Philippides

Les mods passent

Français - France

Yendred said: In French, "être en ménage" means to have a lasting relationship with someone. So "un ménage à trois" is a lasting relationship with two other people. The sexual meaning of this expression is not present in French. Click to expand...

Disons que l'expression ne dit pas qu'il y a des relations sexuelles à trois mais indique quand même qu'il y a des relations sexuelles au moins alternatives, non ?

LART01

Senior Member

La Haye Pays-Bas French-France

Philippides said: Disons que l'expression ne dit pas qu'il y a des relations sexuelles à trois mais indique quand même qu'il y a des relations sexuelles au moins alternatives, non ? Click to expand...

On joue un peu sur les mots,non? si quelqu'un vit avec 2 personnes...qui sait ce qui se passe dans la chambre à coucher? mais on n'imagine pas que c'est en tout bien tout honneur de mon point de vue

Philippides

Les mods passent

Français - France

LART01 said: On joue un peu sur les mots,non? Click to expand...

Je réagissais juste à la remarque de Yendred "The sexual meaning of this expression is not present" (mais je coupe peut-être les cheveux en 4 (ou en 3)

Itisi

Senior Member

Paris/Hastings UK English UK/French WIkipedia says (and I agree) that "A ménage à trois is a domestic arrangement in which three people having romantic and/or sexual relations with each other occupy the same household. It is a form of polyamory." D

dd333

New Member

English

guillaumedemanzac said: D'accord!! French definition!! but threesome in English is just hanging out/going out as a "three-group", not sexual unless specified. Click to expand...

Actually, I disagree. I was talking about a threesome as the sexual conotation. So the French would not use ménage à trois to describe the threesome with a sexual connotation? But something else. S

Soleil_Couchant

Senior Member

English ^ From what I've gathered on this thread, they don't use "menage à trois" for the obvious sexual threesome meaning that we do in English. And yes, in English, both threesome and menage à trois immediately bring to mind sexual relations between three people. The "menage à trois" term I feel is sometimes used in a tongue-in-cheek way to try to make "threesome" sound classier lol. D

dd333

New Member

English Yes, but my question was, do they use it this way in France? In America, it has its obvious connotation that refers to a specific sexual act. But is it so in France?

Yendred

Senior Member

Paris Français - France

dd333 said: So the French would not use ménage à trois to describe the threesome with a sexual connotation? But something else. Click to expand...

Yes, we would use "plan à trois" for a sexual threesome. "Ménage à trois" does not refer to a sexual threesome, but to a love/affective relationship between three people (which may of course include sex). And in addition, if we can say "ce soir, j'ai un plan à trois", we cannot say "ce soir, j'ai un ménage à trois", since ménage à trois implies a non "one-shot" relationship, and the expression cannot be grammatically used this way. Instead, we would say for example, "je vis en ménage à trois depuis un an." or "Mon frère et sa femme hébergent l'ex-femme de mon frère chez eux. Ça sent le ménage à trois." Last edited: Feb 28, 2018 S

Soleil_Couchant

Senior Member

English

dd333 said: Yes, but my question was, do they use it this way in France? In America, it has its obvious connotation that refers to a specific sexual act. But is it so in France? Click to expand...

I know, that's why I said "From what I've gathered on this thread, they don't use "menage à trois" for the obvious sexual threesome meaning that we do in English." And Yendred answered that up above, too (even before their latest post). My other comments were responding to some of the other remarks from English speakers on here as to what threesome and/or ménage à trois mean.

Nicomon

Senior Member

Montréal (Québec) Langue française ♀

Yendred said: To specifically mean a sexual "one-shot" relation with two other people, we will say "un plan à trois" Click to expand...

Et au Québec, on dirait : un trip à trois. This thread reminded me of an old TV sitcom : Three's Company But those three friends lived together platonically... or so we were led to believe. I think it was translated as « Vivre à trois » , but I could very well have said « Ménage à trois » in French. Last edited: Mar 1, 2018

wildan1

Moderando ma non troppo (French-English & CC Mod)

Virginia Piedmont - USA English - USA

Soleil_Couchant said: both threesome and menage à trois immediately bring to mind sexual relations between three people. Click to expand...

I don't agree. While the French term, as used in English without translation, (sometimes shortened to "a menage") does indeed mean three-way sex, even one time, a threesome without further specific context can mean three people doing many things--in golf, it is common to call three people playing the game together a threesome. S

Soleil_Couchant

Senior Member

English uhhhhh....well don't go up to any young people asking if they want a threesome with you because they will assume it's sex. Maybe it's a generational thing (no offense). For what you said, I would say "a trio" ...definitely not a threesome.

wildan1

Moderando ma non troppo (French-English & CC Mod)

Virginia Piedmont - USA English - USA Then maybe you don't play golf SC... * Threesome (Golf) - Definition,meaning - Online Encyclopedia What you are describing is what I hear people call a three-way.

Anglais Français three-way n (sex with three people) (familier) plan à trois nm Click to expand...

Last edited: Mar 1, 2018 S

Soleil_Couchant

Senior Member

English Nope, I don't. The majority of (non-golf playing) people are going to assume this is sexual. Like I said, maybe it's a generational thing. Threesome = sex with three people. Yes, three-way and menage à trois mean it, too. I think the sexual meaning of "threesome" culturally has overridden its other meanings, nowadays, so it's not typically used except for that (unless you're playing golf, apparently ). I'm not saying threesome is the ONLY way to describe it. But that nowadays, in non-golf circles, when people hear "threesome" it's likely that the sexual connotation will be the immediate first thing that comes to mind. And even in the Wikipedia article for Threesome, at the top it says "Three-way" redirects here ... soooo.... Last edited: Mar 1, 2018

tartopom

Senior Member

Nougatville French Je me vois pas dire, en parlant de mes 2 collocs: " On fait ménage à trois". "On partage le même appart / on est en colloc" ou ce genre de truc, d'accord. Mais franchement " on fait ménage à trois" - to me - sounds horny.

Nicomon

Senior Member

Montréal (Québec) Langue française ♀ I agree with wildan that threesome doesn't automatically mean sex. By definition, it is :

a group of three people engaged in the same activity. Click to expand...

Said activity doesn't have to be sex. Just as I wouldn't associate foursome to group sex. But that's apparently said too... @ tartopom : J'aurais dit « Ménage à trois » pour le titre de la sitcom mentionnée. Pas pour ton contexte de trois colocs (un seul « l ») qui partagent le même appart' . En clair, je pense comme Yandred :

"Ménage à trois" does not refer to a sexual threesome, but to a love/affective relationship between three people (which may of course include sex). Click to expand...

Last edited: Mar 1, 2018 S

Soleil_Couchant

Senior Member

English Nicomon, yes that is what the dictionary says. I see that. But if you go to the United States, please don't mention a threesome to someone unless you want three-way sex with them. Just sayin. As mentioned, the sexual meaning dominates nowadays. D

dd333

New Member

English

tartopom said: Je me vois pas dire, en parlant de mes 2 collocs: " On fait ménage à trois". "On partage le même appart / on est en colloc" ou ce genre de truc, d'accord. Mais franchement " on fait ménage à trois" - to me - sounds horny. Click to expand...

Yes, perhaps it has sexual implication that there are romantic relations occurring in the 'household', but ménage à trois does not refer to a specific sexual act (being a threesome), correct?

tartopom

Senior Member

Nougatville French I think for some people it doesn't but to me it does. It sounds like "plan à 3 / triolisme".

lentulax

Senior Member

Cumbria , England UK English (UK) In a 'threesome' (in a sexual context) three people are involved together at the same time in sexual activity. In a menage a trois, this is not usually the case. Let's say a husband, his wife , and his mistress share a home ; the husband may have sex with his mistress, he may have it with his wife too (though not at the same time); wife and mistress do not meet in bed. This is the normal type of situation suggested : the Wikipedia article referenced in #9 gives many historical examples , and in most of these it is clear that , of the three possible pairings, only one or two were sexual, and that the three individuals were in some cases not each linked to each of the other two even by ties of affection. Though sex may usually be involved in some way, we certainly sometimes use the expression where it isn't at all . I don't remember seeing (until #2) or hearing the term menage a trois used for three people who were not actually living together, but perhaps it is in some places. S

Soleil_Couchant

Senior Member

English

lentulax said: (UK) I don't remember seeing (until #2) or hearing the term menage a trois used for three people who were not actually living together, but perhaps it is in some places. Click to expand...

Yes. In the US, it's used as a "fancy" way of saying threesome or three-way. Edit: And it appears there is already a thread along these same lines under "threesome"...talking about how "menage à trois / plan à trois / triolisme / trip à trois" are French equivalents...complete with wildan1 talking about his golf threesomes and another American saying how threesomes has a chiefly sexual connotation nowadays... threesome Different title but very similar theme... Last edited: Mar 1, 2018

Nicomon

Senior Member

Montréal (Québec) Langue française ♀ Wildan wrote in the thread that S_C linked to :

wildan1 said: If the three people are also in love (having sex or not, all three in love, or two people sharing the third as a love object), we call it a love triangle Click to expand...

That's indeed what I've heard. Literally translated as triangle amoureux. Last edited: Mar 1, 2018

Kecha

Senior Member

Région parisienne French (France)

tartopom said: I think for some people it doesn't but to me it does. It sounds like "plan à 3 / triolisme". Click to expand...

As a lot of people have said above, "plan à trois" has the connotation of a one-night thing, while "ménage à trois" suggests a more "long-term", settled-down thing. I don't think anyone said "ménage à trois" can describe a "coloc", I think what people meant when saying "it's not sexual" is that it describes the relationship aspects of it, more than the sex aspects of it. Same difference than between "être en couple" and "s'envoyer en l'air", yes, couple do have sex, but that's not the main description of "être en couple".

Monicaallred

Senior Member

São Bernardo do C, São Paulo, Brasil Portuguese - Brazil Bonjour ! J'aimerais ajouter deux constatations au fil. D'abord, sur Wiktionnaire, la troisième définition de ménage à trois est telle que transcrite ci-dessous : "(Sexualité) Triolisme, pratique sexuelle impliquant trois personnes.

• Cappie veut improviser un ménage à trois pour prouver à ses frères qu’il n’est pas l’homme d’une seule femme."

Deuxièmement, il y a un article datant de 2014 qui s'appelle "Comment avoir un ménage à trois dans les règles d'art" qui parle clairement d'une relation sexuelle pas fréquente entre trois personnes : Comment avoir un ménage à trois dans les règles de l’art ? (apparemment il s'agit d'un site québécois...) A

Aristide

Senior Member

france, french C'est intéressant de consulter Ngram Viewer pour voir de quand datent ces différentes expressions. Google Books Ngram Viewer Au départ, en France, "ménage à trois" était certainement une formule ironique. On la trouve dans des romans et pièces de théâtre légères du 19e siècle. Maintenant encore, les gens normaux l'utilisent de façon humoristique. C'est seulement wikipedia et la presse en général qui utilisent cette expression d'un air sérieux, comme s'il s'agissait d'un terme technique. C'est seulement à partir des années 2000 que les médias et les milieux publicitaires ont commencé à répandre les expressions "bon plan", "plan cul", "plan à trois", etc. C'est censé faire jeune, mais ça vient des publicitaires, et non pas des jeunes. On se demande pourquoi les médias veulent faire croire que leurs inventions linguistiques proviennent du peuple. Pour la presse et les agences de publicité, "bon plan" est souvent synonyme de promotion commerciale. Ou bien ça désigne des idées de sorties, de restaurants ou de vacances pas trop chères. Ensuite, les même médias ont commencé à introduire ce vocabulaire dans le domaine de la vie sexuelle, comme si les gens étaient des objets de consommation... Tout ça pour dire qu'à mon avis, il vaut mieux laisser ce vocabulaire-là aux médias. You must log in or register to reply here. Share: Bluesky LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

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