Northern Kingdoms Compared To Modern Europe, I Think I Found The ...

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wichat

Mentor

#21 Jun 3, 2012 All that is pure especulation, isn't it? It's a suppossed imaginary world, but Loredo and Merse are Castillians ergo Spaniards, (a real kingdom) I don't know is the lily motive is mentioned in the books, but the fleur-de-lis is a symbol of French monarchy, precisely established by the King Loius Sixième at century XII (from the legend of how Clovis Ist get a gold lily from an angel). So.. every especulation would be welcome cause there's a lot of hidden references of mid-age European kingdoms and we, each of us, can be unwittingly feel reflected in them. K

Kris_teh_pwnz

Senior user

#22 Jun 3, 2012 Speaking of history, here's the best history lesson I've ever had: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DrXgj1NwN8&feature=related A 1000 years in 8 min, CGI animation. G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator

#23 Jun 3, 2012 I've always equated the Northern Kingdoms to the Baltic states, and the time to the Northern Crusades. At this time, the Baltic states were small, disunited pagan states (the Grand Duchy of Lithuania being the most powerful), and the Holy Roman Empire was determined to project its own power (and Roman Catholicism) into the region. They had an ally in the religious order of the Teutonic Knights. The names and motifs are taken from all over Europe, and so don't tell us so much as we'd like. I'm more interested in the dynamics and conflicts between powers, and these look more to me like the Baltics and the Northern Crusades. C

CostinRaz

Banned

#24 Jun 3, 2012 Redania is Poland and Temeria is France based on their flags. Nilfgaard is the Holy Roman Empire because their colors ( gold and black ) match HRE ones. Also the current Aedernian Flag might match Germany's modern one but not the medieval one. I'd say Aedirn is Hungary and Kaedwen Russia.

Aver

Forum veteran

#25 Jun 3, 2012

CostinMoroianu said: Redania is Poland and Temeria is France based on their flags. Nilfgaard is the Holy Roman Empire because their colors ( gold and black ) match HRE ones. Also the current Aedernian Flag might match Germany's modern one but not the medieval one. I'd say Aedirn is Hungary and Kaedwen Russia. Click to expand...

Redania doesn't resemble Poland at all (culturally nor politically). Only flag is similar. I have same feeling about Temeria and France. K

Kris_teh_pwnz

Senior user

#26 Jun 3, 2012

Aver said: Redania doesn't resemble Poland at all (culturally nor politically). Click to expand...

Plus, I can't seem to find any jokes about how stupid and dirty redanians are so I guess you're right.

gregski

Moderator

#27 Jun 3, 2012

Kristehpwnz said: Speaking of history, here's the best history lesson I've ever had: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DrXgj1NwN8&feature=related A 1000 years in 8 min, CGI animation. Click to expand...

And it was done by Tomasz Bagiński & Platige Image, the guys behind Witcher intros. P

poohunter

Rookie

#28 Jun 4, 2012 Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Kristehpwnz said: Speaking of history, here's the best history lesson I've ever had: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DrXgj1NwN8&feature=related A 1000 years in 8 min, CGI animation. Click to expand...

Yes this, I've seen this before. I'm very sure a lot of people who know about Polish history have seen this. What really Struck me to write this post is this one Polish keychain I had, I noticed the eagle on it, and instantly thought of Redania, which drove me to investigate this whole thing. Also, my grammar and stuff in the post might have sucked because it was 2:00 am and I was tired when I wrote it . Either way, I'm learning as I go with this and am really interested with all your guys feedback, thanks! A

ajuc

Rookie

#29 Jun 27, 2012 I think Sapkowski just glued up a couple of ideas from real history to make the Witcher world, but it's not allegory, so there's no one true mapping from The Witcher World to our world, medieval or not. For example Cintra (country from books, not appeared in game) political situation is very similiar to Poland political situation around 1939-1945 - first it's got annexed by nearby empire, then other countries that fought with this empire liberated it, but no country really cared about Cintra, so they gave it up to the evil empire, it's only superficialy free, and really it's still under occupation, just indirectly. But it's not ideal allegory, so Niflgaard takes role of both Nazi Germany and USSR But Cintra isn't really Poland, cause names are not slavic, culture is very different, etc etc. Kovir is similiar in many ways to USA before WW1 - it's isolated land far away, slightly idealistic, and growing in power thanks to trade and neutrality. Other part of 1939 Europe history is borrowed for Kaedwen annexation ("liberation") of Upper Aedirn when Nilfgaard invaded Northern Kingdoms before Battle of Brenna. One country annex its neighbourn when he has to defend itself from the other side. Classical political maneuver, performed by USSR in 1939, Poland (shamefully) in 1938, and I'm sure many, many countries before and after that. Other than that - both Redania and Temeria have many slavic named characters, cities and myths, and Eagle is a big hint, but I doubt Sapkowski intended to make one country "the Poland" of The Witcher World. And there's Radovid, which is similiar in many ways to "Ivan the Terrible" from Russia.

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Mentor

#30 Jun 28, 2012 I agree with ajuc. While there are parallels here and there, I don't think countries in the Witcher world match to real ones 1:1. Also, historical context is intentionally anachronistic in Sapkowski's writings. I.e. it doesn't match well any real period in our world history. Consider advanced knowledge in genetics, mechanical industries of the gnomes with the general background of that world - they are a strange mix, and Sapkowski explicitly said that he made it on purpose. L

LambertTheWitcher

Rookie

#31 Oct 4, 2014 Intresting i found another point. http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Regions/Europe_Orientale/Blasons/Charles_Robert_Hongrie.gif This was the Hungarian/anjou flag in the early 14th century.(left: Red and white stripes Right:Gold lillies on a blue flag) Now a pictures of Vincent Meis Clothing with the Temerian Flag. http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081017033427/witcher/images/4/44/People_Vincent_full.png Intresting isn't it? Oh and in sometime ago Hungary and Poland had the same king (End of TW:2 in Roche's side) so: Redania: Poland Temeria:Hungary Aedirn:maybe Germany Nilfgaard: I don't know for sure if you have any ideas im really curious about it. Kaedwen: I don't know for sure maybe some Russian or idk here is the Anjou flag when Poland and Hungary had the same king. http://vilagbiztonsag.hu/keptar/albums/userpics/10001/I__Nagy_Lajos_cimerei__anjou_c.gif (you have the Poland/Redanian Eagle the Anjou Hungarian/Temerian Stripes with the Lillies on blue standard and the standard Hungarian Cross and the flag of Dalmatia) Cheers! G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator

#32 Oct 4, 2014 The games contain no fixed parallels to any real-world countries or dynasties. There are many partial correspondences, and this makes it entertaining to speculate, but any kind of certainty is just as lacking. "Lilies" (irises) were so widely used as a heraldic device that it's hard to draw much in the way of conclusions. You could just as easily draw the conclusion that Vizima represents Florence. The united rule of Poland and Hungary under Wladislaw III was short-lived and more of an expedient for fielding a united force against the Turks. There was a much longer, prosperous union between Poland and Lithuania. The political system of Temeria, with an interrex following Foltest's death and pending an election of a king by the nobles, is much more like the historic system in Poland than in Hungary or elsewhere. The context and events of the games are much more similar to the time of the Northern Crusades, in which then-pagan Baltic states were beset by the Teutonic Knights and the Holy Roman Empire. Last edited: Oct 4, 2014 T

Tjerra

Rookie

#33 Oct 4, 2014 Although I always see the Polish eagle in the Redanian one, I wouldn't say Sapkowski intented it so. Like others said before, for me the similarities are rather coincidentally. Let's take only the eagle as state emblem - it's like half of Europe took it, just take a look on Russia or Germany. And outside Europe - the US. The eagle symbolizes strength and power, and so many nations made it their state emblem. So, nothing's for sure, we can only speculate. Nilfgaard resembles some Empire with a strong army and a smart emperor (Emhyr knows what he does) and a culture relatively different from that of the Northern Kingdoms. There may be some examples in history and Sapkowski may have taken some of them to create his own aggressive Empire, but I don't think he thought about some specific country. Of course, the Northern Kingdoms seem to resemble medieval Europe, but what exactly - no clue. Countries like Cintra are so different from e.g. Temeria, but they're all featured under the term "Northern Kingdoms". Eagles and lilies all inclusive. So - could be. But rather not, in my opinion.

Sephira

Mentor

#34 Oct 4, 2014 Speaking of Nilfgaard, Sapkowski had in mind Roman Empire:

Q:Nilfgaard can be compared to Napoleonian France, Northern Kingdoms are similar to European monarchies resisting Bonaparte’s revolution, and so on... AS: Myself I imagined Nilfgaard rather as Rome with its pax romana, Northern Kingdoms as Gauls or Britons, but your paralell could work as well. Click to expand...

Source D

DonSwingKing

Rookie

#35 Oct 4, 2014

LambertTheWitcher said: so: Redania: Poland Temeria:Hungary Aedirn:maybe Germany Nilfgaard: I don't know for sure if you have any ideas im really curious about it. Kaedwen: I don't know for sure maybe some Russian or idk Click to expand...

I would not simplify it like that. The lily is a common symbol and mostly known as the symbol of the Bourbons, the french heir dynasty. In Temeria we already met people with names like La Valette and so on, which suggest its more inspired by France. But there are all kinds of influences in it. I guess Sapkowski mixed it all up a bit, which is good, so it doesn't get too obvious and uncreative. Kaedwen could be inspired by Austria-Hungary. Henselt sounds like a german name and geographically it would support your twisted Europe theory. Last edited: Oct 4, 2014 V

vivaxardas2015

Rookie

#36 Oct 5, 2014

DonSwingKing said: Kaedwen could be inspired by Austria-Hungary. Henselt sounds like a german name and geographically it would support your twisted Europe theory. Click to expand...

Kaedwen is Russia, just look at Henselt and his cossacks. Austria-Hungary was a pretty modern state, established around the time Napoleon defeated Holy Roman Empire. It was officially proclaimed in 1804, created out of Habsburg lands, and overlapped Holy Roman Empire until 1806, when Napoleon dissolved it in 1806. Actually it was just Austrian Empire (Kaisertum Österreich) first, and became dual monarchy in 1867. So it is a bit too modern to serve as a model for anything. I think in general Nilfgaard is similar to Roman Empire, just imagine it survived into Middle Ages. How their troops looks reminds me Northern crusades against pagan people of Northern Europe and Russia, undertaken by the German Livonian and Teutonic military orders. A

adridu59

Senior user

#37 Oct 5, 2014

DonSwingKing said: I would not simplify it like that. The lily is a common symbol and mostly known as the symbol of the Bourbons, the french heir dynasty. In Temeria we already met people with names like La Valette and so on, which suggest its more inspired by France. Click to expand...

Yes. S

saricc

Rookie

#38 Oct 7, 2014

Aditya said: thats an interesting carch. Ya Andrzej Sapkowski is an historian and many european themes are an inspiration in the witcher world. And UK being Nilfgaard? now that is osmething Click to expand...

Andrzej has said that Nilfgaard is mostly similar to the Roman Empire. H

hardom

Rookie

#39 Oct 8, 2014

hobodealer said: Andrzej has said that Nilfgaard is mostly similar to the Roman Empire. Click to expand...

It makes sense since there is slavery and strong duty and service for the country morals Damn Lyria is italy (Really similar names plus both resembles a damn leg, in real Lyria has an almost perfectly shaped feet) Damn temeria resembles a bit of france a bit for culture and a lot by the flag Kaedwen -> Russia, Big country that use his bigness as strengh, even if only part of it is densely populated and also climate Redania and aedirn are tough one, but if you see aedirn's cities names, vergen, aldesberg, they for some reason sound really germanish for me, or at least one of the language based on germanic Redania could be poland with that flag, yeah "eagle is a common simbol" but not all eagles themed coat of arms are white with red background, which both were Redania could have some Denmark on it -Copenhagen, Aalborg, both populous cities of denmark vs blaviken, novigrad (that novigrad resembles novgorod, guess what this prefixe means) (in real aalborg matches with aedirn cities too, aldesberg and vengerberg, then copenhagen and vergen...)- and then let's see: Denmark was "the land in the middle" for some time in medieval age (or something like that) after viking end, both were big countries of commerce and novigrad of redania was the most important city for commerce in old ages, and denmark had quite a central role in commerce in hanseatic league in the north PLUS it had quite big cities Earlier I mentioned the matches between aedirn and denmark cities... So: F THIS SHIT, and both countries have a sausage shape I'm mostly sure denmark leaved his mark somewhere, maybe both countries who knows Or sapkowski could not have been based on countries at all and invented them quite randomly, well temeria-france we can't negate obvious references, but mainly was that D

DonSwingKing

Rookie

#40 Oct 8, 2014 Denmark is similar to Cidaris.There lies Bremervoord that sounds norse. We obviously know the german town Bremen, which is hanseatic and not far away from Denmark. Again it would fit into the twisted Europe model. Prev

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