| generj on Nov 6, 2017 | parent | context | favorite | on: A look at inner workings of Joycon and Nintendo Sw... Nothing in the breakdown explains why the Joycons are so expensive at $80. The MEMS accelerometer they use costs $1.88 each when buying 500 at a time. Presumably the other chips are about that much as well. There are a lot of connectors on the PCB, but in bulk they, the case, and the battery should be fairly inexpensive. The entire concept of the Switch as a multiplayer in-couch experience is heavily undermined by the excessive cost of a controller. |
 | writeslowly on Nov 6, 2017 | next [–] I'm not sure if any of this is particularly costly, but the teardown on iFixit[1] says that each controller has a Bluetooth transceiver, LRA, flash memory, NFC reader, and the right side has an IR (depth sensing?) camera. It's also a lot of small parts that have to be assembled once you add in additional components like the docking rails and physical controls [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Switch+Teardown/782... |
| | simias on Nov 6, 2017 | prev | next [–] Has there been a videogame console which didn't have overpriced peripherals? As far as I can remember additional controllers were always ridiculously overpriced, even back when they were just a plastic case with a bunch of buttons. Let's not even talk about Sony's price gouging with memory cards (all the way back to the PS1). I guess it's a way to make a nice profit from what is effectively a captive audience. You can either buy the original peripherals at extortionate prices or you can try your luck with off-brand copies. |
| | com2kid on Nov 6, 2017 | parent | next [–] > I guess it's a way to make a nice profit from what is effectively a captive audience. You can either buy the original peripherals at extortionate prices or you can try your luck with off-brand copies. Typically the first generation of controllers are not sold at a large profit. They get cost reduced and a couple iterations in they are major money makers. > You can either buy the original peripherals at extortionate prices or you can try your luck with off-brand copies. AFAIK all major consoles have security chips for their controllers, collecting a licensing fee from 3rd party peripheral manufacturers may sound nice, but if the team doing the licensing is the same team who gets credited for profits from first party sales, then there is a huge conflict of interest. This is why the market for third party controllers can be a bit slim for some consoles. It is up to the political whims, and fiscal arrangement, of a company during that console's lifetime. |
| | tdb7893 on Nov 6, 2017 | prev | next [–] Each joycon being 40$ seems pretty reasonable. If one component costs almost 2$ then it's not hard to see how after buying different components, designing the system, assembling the components, packaging, shipping, and everything else adds up pretty fast, especially when you consider that people also want to make a profit on top of all of that |
| | woodrowbarlow on Nov 6, 2017 | parent | next [–] i think the argument made by GP (which i agree with) is that the controllers should be sold basically at the cost of materials in order to encourage the "multiplayer in-couch experience". i would expect most of the profit comes from licensing fees and royalties, anyway. that's where they'll recouperate the engineering cost. |
| | TazeTSchnitzel on Nov 6, 2017 | parent | prev | next [–] Each joycon is a fully-independent controller, after all! |
| | pjc50 on Nov 6, 2017 | prev | next [–] Wireless Xbox One controllers are at least $40, and about the same complexity. Or even the licensed minecraft controller, which is identical apart from being green and costing $72: https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Wireless-Controller-Minecraft-Cr... Remember, electronics cost has basically nothing to do with BOM cost, other than that the bare minimum for profitability is going to be roughly twice the BOM cost. |
| | CamelCaseName on Nov 6, 2017 | parent | next [–] Sure, but that's because Microsoft likely makes virtually no money off the sale of a console. [0] They need to make the cost of advertising and risk taking back somewhere, and accessories is one way they do that. Also, with regards to the retail markup, big brands generally do not sell directly to department stores, they will rent the space out instead. [0] https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/251038-theres-no-profit-m... |
| | Analemma_ on Nov 6, 2017 | prev | next [–] > Nothing in the breakdown explains why the Joycons are so expensive at $80. It's because people will pay $80. This is a common misconception, that the price of a product is calculated using "how much it costs to manufacture, plus some profit margin percentage". That is false. Cost to produce only sets a floor on retail price (and sometimes not even that); apart from that they have nothing to do with each other. You charge what the market will bear. |
| | generj on Nov 6, 2017 | parent | next [–] The "market" will bear varying levels of cost though. The demand and supply curves are curves and not lines intersecting at 90 degree angles. Often a firm can make more money by lowering price because of the higher quantity. I believe Nintendo would be better off making little to no money on the Joycons. As a spillover of Switch owners having more Joycons and thus the ability to play with their friends, Nintendo will sell more multiplayer games and more Switches. |
| | bcassedy on Nov 6, 2017 | root | parent | next [–] Switches are perpetually sold out. Maybe they could sell more multiplayer games, but I'm betting they can actually charge a premium for the controllers right now because there's a lot of demand to play that can't be met by people getting their own console. |
| | saberworks on Nov 6, 2017 | root | parent | next [–] This may be true in some areas but where I live every retailer (gamestop, target, best buy, walmart, fred meyer) is full of available switches, with no bundles attached, selling at MSRP (no additional markup). It's been like that for about a month. I'm sure they will start selling out again as we get closer to the holidays. That said, I'm with the OP in that Nintendo would make more money off me if they sold the controllers for less. So far I bought 3 games (Mario Kart [again!], Street Fighter II [again!], and Super Mario Odyssey), all of which have multiplayer modes, but none of which we have played multiplayer more than once because using the tiny joycons sideways is just terrible, but the cost of an additional controller is too much. It's not that I can't afford it, it's just that the value isn't there. So far, none of the games is good enough that it's worth spending the extra $$ to buy another controller. If the controllers were $40 I would have bought 2 of them by now, probably. I get how silly that sounds. |
| | NoodleIncident on Nov 7, 2017 | root | parent | next [–] Many games, especially the ones that let you play with a sideways joycon, are fully-functional with gamecube controllers and an adapter. I know Mario Kart is for sure. The drawbacks are the missing motion, "minus", and ZL buttons. If the game works without that and you have some gamecube controllers already, getting an adapter could be a good idea. |
| | plandis on Nov 7, 2017 | root | parent | prev | next [–] Where do you live it took me most of my weekend to find one in a store in Seattle? |
| | saberworks on Nov 8, 2017 | root | parent | next [–] Silverdale / Bremerton / Poulsbo area out in Kitsap County. |
| | Goronmon on Nov 6, 2017 | root | parent | prev | next [–] I believe Nintendo would be better off making little to no money on the Joycons. What's funny if you abstract this concept out a bit in becomes "I believe the company would be better off making little to no money on their products." Joking aside, that sounds like quite the gamble to me. And it doesn't appear to me that Nintendo likes that gamble, as they have been pretty averse to taking losses on hardware in the past. Not to mention I don't know of too many other console makers that are willing to take losses on the accessories. |
| | msabalau on Nov 7, 2017 | parent | prev | next [–] Given that Nintendo wasn't able to keep them in stock for the longest time, lowering the price would have simply left money on the table. And not lowered the cost for consumers--this spring people were buying them and reselling for $120ish. |
| | TYPE_FASTER on Nov 6, 2017 | prev | next [–] I bought this for RetroPie use: https://smile.amazon.com/Logitech-940-000110-Gamepad-F310/dp... It doesn't have wireless, vibration motors, or accelerometers. This model has wireless and vibration motors, not sure about accelerometers: https://smile.amazon.com/Logitech-940-000117-Gamepad-F710/dp... |
| | Crespyl on Nov 6, 2017 | parent | next [–] The wireless F710 does not have accelerometers or gyros, but is otherwise a pretty nice controller if you don't already have a PS or XBox pad lying around. The default Windows drivers and associated "configuration" program are rather badly out of date though, and to get it working on a Windows 10 system I had to override it to use the XBox gamepad driver instead. The Linux drivers worked just fine out of the box though. |
| | com2kid on Nov 6, 2017 | prev | next [–] To get video game consoles on shelves, the manufacturers ask the stores to sell the physical hardware at much lower margins than normal, in return promising sales of peripherals with a huge markup. Having talked to a few people who were directly involved, for controllers the manufacturer get maybe 10% of the purchase price as profit, the store would take 40%+. The markup was basically 100% from what the distributor charged. This is also why for the longest time consoles shipped with bare bones everything. E.g. External wifi, sometimes extra video cables were even needed. Anything to help the store turn an actual profit on selling the physical consoles. |
| | 5ilv3r on Nov 6, 2017 | prev [–] Looking at this in the other direction, this is giving them quite a bit of profit now with lots of room to lower the price to remain competitive later. Nintendo is just posturing to undercut the next gen releases from sony and ms. |
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