Premoving Is Legitimized Cheating. - Lichess

Accessibility - Enable blind modePremoving is legitimized cheating.12345 … 22Eleuthero

@zembrianator

I don't think this is something I'd want to go public about. Chess is a very old game and supporting premove is like saying that we should throw out centuries of history. Premove simply nullifies the meaning of the clock. If the clock says 6 seconds and you're in perpetual premove mode, it doesn't matter whether the clock says 6 seconds or 1 second. In certain endgame positions it becomes totally meaningless. Why not have the clock have a Shakespeare Sonnet on it? Why not have it say E = mc^2?

Last I checked, 6 seconds is 1 more than 5 and one less than 7. Why not write equations that say 2 = 3? That's how utterly absurd premove is. Even the very word "premove" is an insult because it's a semantic absurdity. The meaning of "premove" is literally "a move before a move". Oh but a player only gets one move so there is no "move before a move"?! How very Orwellian the very word "premove" is because, like the cliches in Orwell's novels, it's a made up word whose very semantics make no sense whatsoever.

I'll never use premove. I respect the meaning of time and, I'm sorry, but ten moves in 0.00 seconds is a physical impossibility and those who play chess should respect the simple meanings of simple words and in chess 2 is never equal to 3. This isn't semantic nitpicking. This is about agreeing that 6 doesn't equal 0 or 2 or 3. If you can't beat your opponent in EXACTLY the amount of time you have left, you should lose. This isn't rocket science.

@zembrianator I don't think this is something I'd want to go public about. Chess is a very old game and supporting premove is like saying that we should throw out centuries of history. Premove simply nullifies the meaning of the clock. If the clock says 6 seconds and you're in perpetual premove mode, it doesn't matter whether the clock says 6 seconds or 1 second. In certain endgame positions it becomes totally meaningless. Why not have the clock have a Shakespeare Sonnet on it? Why not have it say E = mc^2? Last I checked, 6 seconds is 1 more than 5 and one less than 7. Why not write equations that say 2 = 3? That's how utterly absurd premove is. Even the very word "premove" is an insult because it's a semantic absurdity. The meaning of "premove" is literally "a move before a move". Oh but a player only gets one move so there is no "move before a move"?! How very Orwellian the very word "premove" is because, like the cliches in Orwell's novels, it's a made up word whose very semantics make no sense whatsoever. I'll never use premove. I respect the meaning of time and, I'm sorry, but ten moves in 0.00 seconds is a physical impossibility and those who play chess should respect the simple meanings of simple words and in chess 2 is never equal to 3. This isn't semantic nitpicking. This is about agreeing that 6 doesn't equal 0 or 2 or 3. If you can't beat your opponent in EXACTLY the amount of time you have left, you should lose. This isn't rocket science.729931Mehzinho

@EleutheroThe original goal is checkmate. Flagging came later. So with using a clock, in your own words you are literally robbing the game of its original goal.

And it is a game indeed. So why act so excited?

@Eleuthero The original goal is checkmate. Flagging came later. So with using a clock, in your own words you are literally robbing the game of its original goal. And it is a game indeed. So why act so excited?1011Eleuthero

@Mehzinho

Blitz has been around since 1883. Paul Morphy was a major instigator for putting clocks in chess because Louis Paulsen would literally take hours for a move. However, the chess clock did NOT change the very MEANING of TIME. It meant that your opponent had to OUTWIT you, not OUTSIT you. And, unlike "premove" (again, it's a semantically illegitimate word), time didn't change meanings before, or after, Morphy. With premove, suddenly the number on that clock loses its strict meaning. Theoretically, you can play a zillion moves in zero seconds. So with premove, what's the definition of, for example, a second? Answer: It has no definition.

Premove is a blight and shouldn't be legal in year 2020 or in year 10020. That's because in the year 10020 one second won't have any different meaning than it has right now. Premove literally redefines time. The dictatorships that Orwell wrote of in his novels featured the invention of new meanings for old words (called "Newspeak"). Well, I happen to think that we're heading into a world where lots of words will get redefined into senselessness. When I lose to premovers, I let them know how cheap their "points" are. They turn a second into 15 moves. Wow. Now that's alchemy.

@Mehzinho Blitz has been around since 1883. Paul Morphy was a major instigator for putting clocks in chess because Louis Paulsen would literally take hours for a move. However, the chess clock did NOT change the very MEANING of TIME. It meant that your opponent had to OUTWIT you, not OUTSIT you. And, unlike "premove" (again, it's a semantically illegitimate word), time didn't change meanings before, or after, Morphy. With premove, suddenly the number on that clock loses its strict meaning. Theoretically, you can play a zillion moves in zero seconds. So with premove, what's the definition of, for example, a second? Answer: It has no definition. Premove is a blight and shouldn't be legal in year 2020 or in year 10020. That's because in the year 10020 one second won't have any different meaning than it has right now. Premove literally redefines time. The dictatorships that Orwell wrote of in his novels featured the invention of new meanings for old words (called "Newspeak"). Well, I happen to think that we're heading into a world where lots of words will get redefined into senselessness. When I lose to premovers, I let them know how cheap their "points" are. They turn a second into 15 moves. Wow. Now that's alchemy.51651GyrythIIedited

@Eleuthero Clearly you are joking, but time controls and clocks in chess are a comparatively recent innovation, driven by commercialisation and the commodification of time.Premove (meaning "before-move" and referring to your decision, is etymologically unimpeachable) is an essential part of chess if played without an increment. Nobody is entitled to penalise their opponent to the extent of requiring the time it takes them to react, click the cursor, move the mouse and release, plus the latent time of the net and server, to be taken off their clock.I have found myself in ridiculous dead-draw endgames where I am low on time and my opponent is effectively relying on me not being able to physically make the 50 moves required to claim the draw in the time that is left to me. This is not chess - it is a very dull platform game. One feature of chess.com is that it allows multi-premoves. Nothing is more satisfying than pre-moving a forced checkmate while your opponent is trying to filibuster out the time to annoy you, going and making a cup of tea, and coming back to the win screen having wasted precisely no time on his churlish antics.Pre-move is here to stay, and thank god.

@Eleuthero Clearly you are joking, but time controls and clocks in chess are a comparatively recent innovation, driven by commercialisation and the commodification of time. Premove (meaning "before-move" and referring to your decision, is etymologically unimpeachable) is an essential part of chess if played without an increment. Nobody is entitled to penalise their opponent to the extent of requiring the time it takes them to react, click the cursor, move the mouse and release, plus the latent time of the net and server, to be taken off their clock. I have found myself in ridiculous dead-draw endgames where I am low on time and my opponent is effectively relying on me not being able to physically make the 50 moves required to claim the draw in the time that is left to me. This is not chess - it is a very dull platform game. One feature of chess.com is that it allows multi-premoves. Nothing is more satisfying than pre-moving a forced checkmate while your opponent is trying to filibuster out the time to annoy you, going and making a cup of tea, and coming back to the win screen having wasted precisely no time on his churlish antics. Pre-move is here to stay, and thank god.12423Roadto2_1k

YES, BAN THE THOUGHT POLICE INDOCTRINATING US WITH THE PREMOVE

YES, BAN THE THOUGHT POLICE INDOCTRINATING US WITH THE PREMOVE2192General0_0Advance

I swear everytime I've seen you post you're whining about something. Lobby all you like, the dislikes on your original post says it all. @Eleuthero

I swear everytime I've seen you post you're whining about something. Lobby all you like, the dislikes on your original post says it all. @Eleuthero 11321Ben_634

Like @SteveMulchCivic said, Premoving is a HUGE risk. You premove to capture something, then oops! That piece moved and you just blundered.

Like @SteveMulchCivic said, Premoving is a HUGE risk. You premove to capture something, then oops! That piece moved and you just blundered. 4221Mehzinho

@EleutheroI think we could have an interesting thread about the introduction of time controls, and the rules that currently are in place. For example in OTB after your opponent releases his piece and has not yet pressed his clock, you are allowed to execute your move. Do you agree with this rule? It means you can effectively move with no to very little cost of time. I have done 6 in a second, but it can certainly be more.

However, the reason why I pointed it out, is that the introduction of the chess clock was a (recent) change. The fact that you point out the benefits of the change (outthinking vs out sitting) does not mean it did not add new elements in chess such as time scrambles, losing won positions due to time etc. This was clearly not part of the original goal. Yet, you support it.

The pre-move is not even a change of the FIDE rules, but just an online feature, an easy solution is to play on sites whom don't allow it, or start one yourself.

@Eleuthero I think we could have an interesting thread about the introduction of time controls, and the rules that currently are in place. For example in OTB after your opponent releases his piece and has not yet pressed his clock, you are allowed to execute your move. Do you agree with this rule? It means you can effectively move with no to very little cost of time. I have done 6 in a second, but it can certainly be more. However, the reason why I pointed it out, is that the introduction of the chess clock was a (recent) change. The fact that you point out the benefits of the change (outthinking vs out sitting) does not mean it did not add new elements in chess such as time scrambles, losing won positions due to time etc. This was clearly not part of the original goal. Yet, you support it. The pre-move is not even a change of the FIDE rules, but just an online feature, an easy solution is to play on sites whom don't allow it, or start one yourself. 121tpr

#18this is not trueFIDE Laws of Chess:"6.7 a. During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stophis own clock and start his opponent’s clock. A player must always be allowed tostop his clock. His move is not considered to have been completed until he has doneso, unless the move that was made ends the game. (See the Articles 5.1.a, 5.2.a,5.2.b, 5.2.c and 9.6)The time between making the move on the chessboard and stopping his own clockand starting his opponent‘s clock is regarded as part of the time allotted to theplayer."

#18 this is not true FIDE Laws of Chess: "6.7 a. During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop his own clock and start his opponent’s clock. A player must always be allowed to stop his clock. His move is not considered to have been completed until he has done so, unless the move that was made ends the game. (See the Articles 5.1.a, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c and 9.6) The time between making the move on the chessboard and stopping his own clock and starting his opponent‘s clock is regarded as part of the time allotted to the player."4411pointlesswindowsedited

I don't see anything bad with premoving. It can be helpful in time trouble when you are up material but the oponent has more time left. If you play with an increment you get an important time charge and after a few easy premoves, you gain enough time to checkmate the rascal. And if you can premove difficult moves it means that you are a very good player. I also have seen self confident chessmen of high rating who premoved in the opening and lost a piece after move 2. But for me it doesn't matter if there is a premove option or not. I don't play quick chess.

I don't see anything bad with premoving. It can be helpful in time trouble when you are up material but the oponent has more time left. If you play with an increment you get an important time charge and after a few easy premoves, you gain enough time to checkmate the rascal. And if you can premove difficult moves it means that you are a very good player. I also have seen self confident chessmen of high rating who premoved in the opening and lost a piece after move 2. But for me it doesn't matter if there is a premove option or not. I don't play quick chess.61212345 … 22

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