Train Length Question

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Western Railroad Discussion > Train Length Question Date: 02/12/04 22:21 Train Length Question Author: Scott I understand that there are many (maybe hundreds) of different lengths of cars, but is there a "rule of thumb" or guesstimate that is used to estimate train length? In other words I know the crew gets a printout showing the number of cars, types, and exact train length, but if you were told a train had say, 90 cars, would you be able to come close to guessing it's length? I saw a manifest train go by on the Roseville sub at Gold Run and the detector noted 512 axles. I figured the four locos brought the car's axle count down to 488, so divide by four and it was 122 cars long. I was curious if I could guess the train length from that if there was a "rule of thumb" or an average car length. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 00:21 Re: Train Length Question Author: chessie For a mixed "manifest", I'd ballpark about 80-85 cars = 1 mile. For intermodal, about 26-27 cars = 1 mile. Randy [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 00:54 Re: Train Length Question Author: twsmike When I started railroading 40ft was the standard length of a box car, now its 60ft a 90 car train can be guesstamated 5400ft. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 06:07 Re: Train Length Question Author: toledopatch If you think a train is mostly boxcars/tankcars/etc. I'd guesstimate the average car at about 50 feet, which is the "normal" boxcar length. Many centerbeam lumber cars, tank cars, and covered hoppers are longer than that, but other tank cars and hoppers are shorter -- it depends on what their intended load is (the denser the commodity, the smaller the car involved before you reach maximum weight). Here in the heart of the auto industry, average length per car is much higher because of the auto-parts cars and autoracks; parts cars range in length from 50 (engines) to 86 (body panels) feet, while most autoracks are 89 feet long -- except for the three-truck, articulated ones. Intermodal cars are longer also because their loading is relatively lightweight. So if a train of mostly automotive or intermodal traffic is coming, you can guesstimate by dividing the axle count by four (after eliminating the engines) and multiplying by 85 or 90 -- or just multiplying by about 22 -- to get a length in feet. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 06:23 Re: Train Length Question Author: gladhand toledopatch Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you think a train is mostly > boxcars/tankcars/etc. I'd guesstimate the average > car at about 50 feet, which is the "normal" boxcar > length. Many centerbeam lumber cars, tank cars, > and covered hoppers are longer than that, but > other tank cars and hoppers are shorter -- it > depends on what their intended load is (the denser > the commodity, the smaller the car involved before > you reach maximum weight). > > Here in the heart of the auto industry, average > length per car is much higher because of the > auto-parts cars and autoracks; parts cars range in > length from 50 (engines) to 86 (body panels) feet, > while most autoracks are 89 feet long -- except > for the three-truck, articulated ones. Intermodal > cars are longer also because their loading is > relatively lightweight. So if a train of mostly > automotive or intermodal traffic is coming, you > can guesstimate by dividing the axle count by four > (after eliminating the engines) and multiplying by > 85 or 90 -- or just multiplying by about 22 -- to > get a length in feet. > > > > 50' is considered the normal car length. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 07:55 Re: Train Length Question Author: Scott Excellant. Thankyou for your responses. I kind of figured there must be an "average" to guess with. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 08:38 Number of cars not used Author: tomstp Railroads used to list the number of cars a passing siding would hold and dispatchers used that and the number of cars a train had to determine if they could put it in the siding. This changed in the late 1960's-70's due to the many differing lengths of cars and they redesignated siding measurments into feet, not cars. Signs were placed at the exit to yards every 100 to as much as 500 feet going out to usually 10,000 ft. The conductor would radio the engine when the caboose passed the starting point and the engineer would call back the number of feet sign he was passing. That information would be relayed to a dispatcher for use in staging meets. Now trains lenghts are given by computer to the dispatcher and crew. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 09:44 Re: Train length readouts Author: toledopatch Another source of train-length information are wayside detectors, some of which have programming to provide a length estimate. But an Amtrak trip I took some years ago showed how ANY length calculation is rough, because slack in the train causes length to vary, depending on whether a train is going uphill or downhill, or accelerating or decelerating. As I recall it, the length of our passenger train varied by 5 to 10 feet when we passed various detectors, so think about what that means for a freight train with 10 times as many cars! [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 11:43 Re: Train Length Question Author: nvsubfoamer In regards to the autoracks being 89' the consists issued to train crews show those cars as being 94 feet and those six axle articulated racks at 144', Auto parts box cars are usually around 93' 94'. The standard RBOX is 56', Cement hoppers 43' Standard hoppers average out about 58' to 64'. Dash 9's 73', SD70m's 72', ADMX, CHSX, and those ag products tank cars are around 60'. I would say average manifests around 55-65 cars length out around 3800' to 4500'. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 15:09 Re: Train Length Question Author: jdb I thought that train length was computed from information taken from the ORER that has the length of each car. I realize that this isn't practical for cars picked up enroute between terminals and some "rule of thumb" should be used. jb [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 17:14 Re: Train length readouts Author: TCnR toledopatch Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Another source of train-length information are > wayside detectors, some of which have programming > to provide a length estimate. What RRs are using detectors that call out length?? Trying to figure out how that would work, possibly calculated from speed and time. If the speed varied it would cause the calculated length to change. Interesting info, guess they don't need to be too accurate, plus or minus half a car length would work, thanks. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 17:24 Re: Train Length Question Author: grande473 The Santa Fe used to use the distance between line side poles, 200 feet, to measure train length. Since cabooses and the poles are gone, so is that method. One way would be to get out the equipment register and add them. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 18:44 Re: Train length readouts Author: airbrake TCnR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > toledopatch Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Another source of train-length information > are > > wayside detectors, some of which have > programming > > to provide a length estimate. > > What RRs are using detectors that call out > length?? > Trying to figure out how that would work, possibly > calculated from speed and time. If the speed > varied it would cause the calculated length to > change. Hotbox detectors count axles and time between axles so you can estimate from that count. The AEI tags on the side of the cars and Locomotives must be placed a certain distance from the ends of the cars and Locomotives so you can come exceptionally close with the readers. There are two readers at Tehachapi Depot (one on each side of the rail) and two on the Joint Line here in Pueblo. The readers are also located at the entrance and exit of practically every yard and shop track. The readers are all over the place and are very accurate. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/13/04 19:52 Re: Train length readouts Author: gladhand TCnR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > toledopatch Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Another source of train-length information > are > > wayside detectors, some of which have > programming > > to provide a length estimate. > > What RRs are using detectors that call out > length?? > Trying to figure out how that would work, possibly > calculated from speed and time. If the speed > varied it would cause the calculated length to > change. > Interesting info, guess they don't need to be too > accurate, plus or minus half a car length would > work, thanks. > > > Our man in Toledo is correct. The IC detectors gives your train length. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/14/04 00:24 Re: Train length readouts Author: Scott There used to be a train length detector at San Bernadino and there was a light that remained a constant color as long as the train stayed at a given speed, The detector measured time from first to last axle and used the speed to calculate length. I heard the detector on my scanner and an MOW guy told me how it worked. So take the info with that in mind. There are no length detectors that I know of on the Roseville Sub [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/14/04 16:00 Re: Train length readouts Author: TCnR gladhand Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > TCnR Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > toledopatch Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Another source of train-length > information > > are > > > wayside detectors, some of which have > > programming > > > to provide a length estimate. > > > > What RRs are using detectors that call out > > length?? > > Trying to figure out how that would work, > possibly > > calculated from speed and time. If the speed > > varied it would cause the calculated length > to > > change. > > Interesting info, guess they don't need to be > too > > accurate, plus or minus half a car length > would > > work, thanks. > > > > > > > Our man in Toledo is correct. The IC detectors > gives your train length. > So the info is from the AEI tags and added together? Anybody else get irritated when the whole text message is repeated? [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/14/04 16:50 Re: Train length readouts Author: gladhand TCnR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > gladhand Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > TCnR Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > toledopatch Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > > Another source of train-length > > information > > > are > > > > wayside detectors, some of which > have > > > programming > > > > to provide a length estimate. > > > > > > What RRs are using detectors that call > out > > > length?? > > > Trying to figure out how that would > work, > > possibly > > > calculated from speed and time. If the > speed > > > varied it would cause the calculated > length > > to > > > change. > > > Interesting info, guess they don't need > to be > > too > > > accurate, plus or minus half a car > length > > would > > > work, thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > Our man in Toledo is correct. The IC > detectors > > gives your train length. > > > > So the info is from the AEI tags and added > together? > Anybody else get irritated when the whole text > message is repeated? > No, that doesn't irritate me. What does irritate me though is attempting to answer someones question only to have that person dictate in what manner the question is answered! Tell ya what, ask your local defect detector the exact process used to measure train length. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/14/04 17:22 Re: Train length readouts Author: TCnR Point is whether it's an actual measurement or is based on the info on the AEI tags. If it's based on the info from the AEI tags the calculated length of the same train would be the same every time. In this context, the accuracy of reading the tag doesn't change, it's reading digital information not a quantitative measurement (of time or speed). Where does the error described occur? Thats what leads to the question of timing the passage of the train, as in the example of maintaining constant track speed. Of course, there could be different techniques, that's why other people have bothered to ask questions and answer questions. Thanks for the info, suggest trying some de-caf. [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ] Date: 02/15/04 20:36 Re: Train Length Question Author: RustyRayls I don't know for sure but I would think that car lengths (pulling face to pulling face) would be data-based by reporting marks or they would be coded on the data stickers on the side of the car. 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