Voltage And Amps For Electric Dryer

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Voltage and amps for electric dryer

Reply Subscription Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools Search this Thread #1 Old 08-11-18, 01:18 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts Voltage and amps for electric dryer I'm being told by the builder/developer of the home I'm moving into that it is ok for me to buy and plug in an electric dryer that requires 240V 30Amps into a receptacle wired for 220/240V 20 Amps. Logic says the appliance will try to draw 30 Amps from an outlet that can provide up to 20 Amps. Isn't this dangerous? Wouldn't it require a receptacle that's wired to 240V and 30 Amps? Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #2 Old 08-11-18, 01:58 PM P pattenp Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: United States, Virginia Posts: 1,765 Upvotes: 1 Received 295 Upvotes on 248 Posts A dryer that is stated by the manufacturer needing 240V/30A is to be on a 240V/30A circuit. Builder is wrong. Upvote pattenp View Public Profile Find all posts by pattenp #3 Old 08-11-18, 02:56 PM Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar Tolyn Ironhand Group Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: United States Posts: 15,158 Upvotes: 84 Received 1,114 Upvotes on 940 Posts While the dryer will not draw 30 amps it will draw more then 20, likely about 22-24 amps. A dryer plugged into a 20 amp circuit will surly trip the breaker. You need a larger circuit. Upvote Tolyn Ironhand View Public Profile Find all posts by Tolyn Ironhand #4 Old 08-11-18, 11:58 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts Thank you both. Sounds like the builder doesn't want to admit a mistake and hoping no one bothers to ask. Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #5 Old 08-12-18, 12:21 AM PJmax's Avatar PJmax Group Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jersey Posts: 70,126 Upvotes: 530 Received 5,006 Upvotes on 4,480 Posts What did they do...... install a 240v 20A receptacle at the dryer location ? Upvote PJmax View Public Profile Find all posts by PJmax #6 Old 08-12-18, 04:29 AM pcboss's Avatar pcboss Forum Topic Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 14,126 Upvotes: 13 Received 246 Upvotes on 209 Posts If they installed a 20 amp circuit and wiring i would seriously question their knowledge. Upvote pcboss View Public Profile Find all posts by pcboss #7 Old 08-12-18, 06:02 AM H Hal_S Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: USA Posts: 2,370 Upvotes: 53 Received 312 Upvotes on 269 Posts Quote: Originally Posted by calicitykid I'm being told by the builder/developer of the home I'm moving into that it is ok for me to buy and plug in an electric dryer that requires 240V 30Amps into a receptacle wired for 220/240V 20 Amps. The builder's an idiot, get them to put things in writing. (A) those plugs physically will not fit together, and (B) they now sound dumber than Michael Keaton in "Mr. Mom" A- No problem... of course re-wire it. Q- Ya gonna make it all 220? A- Yeah, 220, 221, whatever it takes... What does the builders's spec sheet say about the outlet ? Does their spec sheet say they are responsible for installing a 220/240 V 20A outlet, That's a "Nema 6-20" the and looks like this (the 240V 15A plug has 2 flat prongs, the 20A has one up, one down. or a 120/240V 20A outlet that's a NEMA 14-20 and looks like this or a "normal" dryer outlet, 120/240V 30A, that's a NEMA 14-30 and looks like this then Last edited by Hal_S; 08-12-18 at 06:23 AM. Upvote Hal_S View Public Profile Find all posts by Hal_S #8 Old 08-12-18, 05:32 PM CasualJoe's Avatar CasualJoe Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: United States Posts: 9,913 Upvotes: 1,768 Received 192 Upvotes on 172 Posts As dumb as the builder sounds, I'd want to be sure he has a proper circuit installed. It isn't 30 amps at 240 volts you need, what you need is 30 amps at 120/240 volts. This means the circuit should be installed with 10-3 NM-B cable (aka Romex), the orange stuff. The circuit MUST have 1 Black, 1 White, 1 Red and 1 ground conductor (All #10s) that can be either bare or green. If the builder balks, call your local building office and ask them if they will pass his installation. Upvote CasualJoe View Public Profile Find all posts by CasualJoe #9 Old 08-12-18, 09:08 PM L lambition Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 1,744 Upvotes: 10 Received 247 Upvotes on 211 Posts 240V only dryers do exists, but wont' be easy to find and will be more expensive as well. Only 240V only dryers I have seen are European ventless dryers that are designed to run on 220V to 240V. I think they were rated below 20A if I remember correctly. All they have to do when imported to the US is change the plug. The price was $1000+ They are also made to fit under the kitchen counter. Upvote lambition View Public Profile Find all posts by lambition #10 Old 08-13-18, 06:56 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts They're asking I sign an addendum acknowledging and signing off that the laundry closet is wired for 220/240V and 20 amps for the dryer. The dryer in question is an Eletctrolux EFDE210TIW or LGDLE888W. These are ventless electric dryers for a small space in a condo. In both owner's manuals, it says the dryer requires 240V 30 Amps...but the builder insist these are both compatible with the outlet and to hurry up and sign and select. The builder's stance is the receptacle is a 4 wire circuit, 4 prong receptacle, and for a 4 prong cord so what is the problem. never been more confused about if these people know what they're talking about or hoping I'm not going to ask any questions. Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #11 Old 08-13-18, 08:01 PM Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar Tolyn Ironhand Group Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: United States Posts: 15,158 Upvotes: 84 Received 1,114 Upvotes on 940 Posts It is not the configuration or the receptacle, or how many wires, (although that is part of it) It is the size of the wires. The circuit should be #10 wires, should be a 4 wire circuit if it is new, and should be protected by a 30 amp, two pole breaker. I could not find the current rating of the LG but the Electrolux is 21 amps. How is that going to work on a 20 amp circuit? It is not. Code says that the circuit is to sized for the expected load to be served. Upvote Tolyn Ironhand View Public Profile Find all posts by Tolyn Ironhand #12 Old 08-13-18, 09:28 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts Thanks everyone. It's likely that I'm not using the right vocabulary with the Dept. of Building Inspection because all I'm getting from the Chief Electrical Inspector is "ensure the contractor/builder installs according to the manufacturer's explanation." It's sounding like I may need a referral to a licensed electrician in SF to check out what they've done (or royally screwed up). Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #13 Old 08-13-18, 09:36 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts Yes. They installed a NEMA 14-20, contacted me and said oops, but hey, here are two models that are compatible, don't be so concerned about what the manufacturers are stating as electrical requirements in their specs, it's too late for us to go back and correct this because it'll take too much time. Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #14 Old 08-14-18, 03:35 AM pcboss's Avatar pcboss Forum Topic Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 14,126 Upvotes: 13 Received 246 Upvotes on 209 Posts Of you accept this 20 amp circuit you will always need to look for a special dryer. Tell the clowns.to fix their mistakes. Upvote pcboss View Public Profile Find all posts by pcboss #15 Old 08-14-18, 08:59 AM I ibpooks Forum Topic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Near Lansing, Michigan Posts: 9,783 Upvotes: 0 Received 47 Upvotes on 44 Posts There are 20A dryers out there, but they are few and far between - probably would need to be special ordered at most places. They're mostly designed for efficiency apartments and the like. The builder screwed this one up big time. Upvote ibpooks View Public Profile Find all posts by ibpooks #16 Old 08-14-18, 09:15 AM H Hal_S Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: USA Posts: 2,370 Upvotes: 53 Received 312 Upvotes on 269 Posts {auote]They're asking I sign an addendum acknowledging and signing off that the laundry closet is wired for 220/240V and 20 amps for the dryer. [/quote] Does the agreement of sale say Upvote Hal_S View Public Profile Find all posts by Hal_S #17 Old 08-14-18, 12:41 PM ray2047's Avatar ray2047 Group Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: USA Posts: 29,708 Upvotes: 0 Received 16 Upvotes on 14 Posts You could compromise by insisting on 10-3 to the receptacle. Than it will be easy to change. Upvote ray2047 View Public Profile Find all posts by ray2047 #18 Old 08-14-18, 01:13 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts It says "The following terms and conditions are hereby incorporated in and made a part of the Contract for the Sale and Purchase of Real Property dated.... Laundry closets are installed with a 220/240V power outlet that provides 20 Amps of power; this is intended for the dryer. And a 120V outlet that accommodates any washing machine. Many European brands require a 30 Amp circuit from the 220/240V outlet so please do not install these models; they will not work and will consistently trip the breaker. Please make sure that the model you elect to install will be compatible with the power supply provided. Known models that will work with the 20 Amp circuit are Electrolux and LG; both of these models are available via the Design Center." This makes my brain hurt. The models being recommended aren't even compatible. Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #19 Old 08-14-18, 01:40 PM I ibpooks Forum Topic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Near Lansing, Michigan Posts: 9,783 Upvotes: 0 Received 47 Upvotes on 44 Posts Hmm, that's an odd specification. They did build it per spec, but the question is why is that the spec? My guess is that perhaps you have a local, maybe very local like housing association, rule to limit electrical use? Perhaps some sort of energy efficiency rule or something to restrict use of an older shared infrastructure? I'm just taking guesses - do any of these sound reasonable? Upvote ibpooks View Public Profile Find all posts by ibpooks #20 Old 08-14-18, 01:42 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts No. This is a new build, new development from the ground up. Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #21 Old 08-14-18, 04:02 PM L lambition Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 1,744 Upvotes: 10 Received 247 Upvotes on 211 Posts Quote: he dryer in question is an Eletctrolux EFDE210TIW or LGDLE888W. If both of the dryers use less than 20A and came be made to work on your outlet. But since they call for 30A receptacle, it is technically wrong to install cord for 20A. If NEMA 14-20 is used, than it is 120/240V 20A. Not 240V 20A. NEMA 6-20 will be 240V 20A. The 240V only dryers I mentioned comes with NEMA 6-20 plugs pre-wired. I just don't remember the brand name. I strongly recommend getting correct receptacle and wires installed. Even if you get a correct dryer that will work with your setup, it will be just a headache later on. I wonder if they actually ran 10-3 cable, but made a mistake of putting wrong receptacle. Is the breaker 20A. Have you had a chance to open the junction box and check wire size? Upvote lambition View Public Profile Find all posts by lambition #22 Old 08-14-18, 07:05 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts Quote: I wonder if they actually ran 10-3 cable, but made a mistake of putting wrong receptacle. Is the breaker 20A. Have you had a chance to open the junction box and check wire size? I'll be in the unit later this week and taking photos so I know exactly what they did, and how big of a mistake they made. The stupefying bit is how they're trying to walk back this note that I don't think they intended for me to receive. They tried to recall the message, but I had already opened it: We have recently discovered per construction’s update, that xxx is not able to accommodate the xxx washer and dryer. The Laundry closets are installed with a 220/240V power outlet that provides 20 Amps of power; this is intended for the dryer. And a 120V outlet that accommodates any washing machine. Good luck, sorry they did that to you in the building! That’s really a big mistake not giving the 220 plug 30 amps. We have not seen that before, they all make sure 30 amps to allow for any washer/dryer. That's why I've been so confused and unable to determine what's what. I'm clearly not an electrician, and am really grateful to everyone for explaining what's what. Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #23 Old 08-15-18, 01:48 PM I ibpooks Forum Topic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Near Lansing, Michigan Posts: 9,783 Upvotes: 0 Received 47 Upvotes on 44 Posts Yeah it's a weird one. I would have to make a special trip to the supplier to get a 14-20 receptacle. I keep a box of 14-30 dryer receptacles and 10-3 cable spool since it's such a common job to install a dryer. I can't image how it wasn't obvious to whoever installed this that it was a mistake. Upvote ibpooks View Public Profile Find all posts by ibpooks #24 Old 08-15-18, 08:10 PM Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar Tolyn Ironhand Group Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: United States Posts: 15,158 Upvotes: 84 Received 1,114 Upvotes on 940 Posts I also agree it is odd. Any electrician would question running a 240v 20 amp circuit for a dryer instead of a 120/240 30 amp. I would question it if I was on that job. Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 08-16-18 at 04:20 PM. Upvote Tolyn Ironhand View Public Profile Find all posts by Tolyn Ironhand #25 Old 08-15-18, 09:51 PM L lambition Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 1,744 Upvotes: 10 Received 247 Upvotes on 211 Posts Quote: I would have to make a special trip to the supplier to get a 14-20 receptacle. I keep a box of 14-30 dryer receptacles A electrician would have ran most of the wiring, but often they don't finish all the way. It is possible that the receptacle was installed by a non-electrician. They probably wouldn't keep any receptacles in their truck. Upvote lambition View Public Profile Find all posts by lambition #26 Old 08-16-18, 05:36 AM H Hal_S Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: USA Posts: 2,370 Upvotes: 53 Received 312 Upvotes on 269 Posts Quote: Originally Posted by lambition A electrician would have ran most of the wiring, but often they don't finish all the way. Interesting, I can't imagine any electrician running 20A amp rated 3 conductor wire for a dryer, so perhaps there's hope that the cable is normal 30A, 4 conductor, and thenit would be possible to just swap out the 20A outlet and breaker, and replace them with a 30A outlet and breaker? Calicitikid should check the circuit breaker panels, or remove the face plate and hope for 4 wires. Upvote Hal_S View Public Profile Find all posts by Hal_S #27 Old 08-16-18, 06:28 AM ray2047's Avatar ray2047 Group Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: USA Posts: 29,708 Upvotes: 0 Received 16 Upvotes on 14 Posts Quote: so perhaps there's hope that the cable is normal 30A, 4 conductor [actually 3 conductors + ground] Yes as I suggested in post #17. #Fingers crossed. Upvote ray2047 View Public Profile Find all posts by ray2047 #28 Old 08-17-18, 06:48 PM C calicitykid Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 9 Upvotes: 0 Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts Quote: have you had a chance to open the junction box and check wire size? The best I could do was take photos of the exterior. Couldn't see the physical cables / don't know how to open it either. There is a NEMA 14-30R in the laundry closet, couldn't tell you what anything means in the breaker. I'm hoping and praying they did things correctly and that the communication about whatever the issue is, is a lack of understanding on the part of the folks sending these emails and documents out. Attached Images Upvote calicitykid View Public Profile Find all posts by calicitykid #29 Old 08-17-18, 08:54 PM Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar Tolyn Ironhand Group Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: United States Posts: 15,158 Upvotes: 84 Received 1,114 Upvotes on 940 Posts It appears that all this has been for nothing. I suspect the 2 pole 30 (breaker 14/16) is for the dryer and feeds the receptacle in the picture, which is also the correct configuration for a dryer. 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