What Is The Point-buy System? And Point Arrays? - D&D Beyond

• (Perfect)
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Sorry for the newb question. I'm used to rolling dice for attributes.

I've seen it mentioned in several posts/forums, a reference to point-buy and point arrays.

Can you someone please point me to a reference so I can learn more? (Or explain here) Also, if anyone can share Pros/Cons? I would be very grateful.

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• (Perfect)
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Point buy system is a method determine ability score without the randomness of the dice. Standard array is a fixed array of ability score.

Specifics here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/step-by-step-characters#3DetermineAbilityScores

• Waghalter
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https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/step-by-step-characters#3DetermineAbilityScores

Basically standard array means you get a set of pregenerated numbers such as : 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8

Point buy uses a total point number you are allow to distribute as you choose, but increasing the stat to higher levels costs more points.

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Let me make sure I understand. I _did_ read that section of the rules but I just skimmed over it, knowing I would roll attributes.

Using the example: I have 27 points with which to buy higher scores above all 8's. I guess the 'standard' result would be the 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 set. But I'm free to spend those 27 points as I see fit. Now if I wanted higher scores I could increase the number of points, yes?

And the point arrays would just be some different 'configurations'

Am I understanding this now?

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• Waghalter
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Quote from InsanityRocks >>

Let me make sure I understand. I _did_ read that section of the rules but I just skimmed over it, knowing I would roll attributes.

Using the example: I have 27 points with which to buy higher scores above all 8's. I guess the 'standard' result would be the 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 set. But I'm free to spend those 27 points as I see fit. Now if I wanted higher scores I could increase the number of points, yes?

And the point arrays would just be some different 'configurations'

Am I understanding this now?

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Let's see: with 27 points I can buyt 3 14s and 3 10s, or

1 15, 2 14s, 2 10s and 1 8.......and so on with any combination you desire.

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Thank you @Filcat and @Thain - most helpful :D

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• Adventurer
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can you buy anything above 18? also could you please show the modifiers corresponding to the scores

• Racaraide
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The default point buy system does not let you get a stat above 15 (before racial modifiers)

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Quote from Houligan >>

The default point buy system does not let you get a stat above 15 (before racial modifiers)

Or let you go below 8 - which I think is its biggest flaw. It's nice to have stats below 8 occasionally.

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• Horseman
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Personally I’ve never liked point buy. Sure it eliminates randomness, but it also eliminates the possability of really good or bad stats. Now to some people that may seem good, as it keeps everyone on a mostly level playing field. And that is nice. In my experience though, the characters I’ve had the most fun with in D and D are the ones that have been really good at one thing and really bad at another. For instance, my favorite character of all time is my Goliath giant soul sorcerer. We rolled stats at level 5 he had a 6 in intelligence, rolled an 18 that I put into strength for a 20 with racial bonuses. And I rolled a 16 and 15. The 15 I slapped into con which gave me 16 with facials, the 16 I slapped into charisma. Sounds weird for a sorcerer right? To top it off I grabbed the tough feat, green flame blade, and booming blade. So I had a really dumb melee sorcerer, capable of some actually legit damage output with barbarian levels of hp. If I’d been rolling with point buy that would actually be impossible to build. Oh, and just to put it out there, we roll stats before character creation in my group. That way we can decide what’s most practical for us to choose after taking a look at our stats.

• Professional Bard
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Everyone is going to have different opinions on what is the best stat generation method. And there's no wrong or right answer, just the answer that works for you and your DM.

Personally I like standard array for beginner players, and then offering point buy as well. Both of those methods offer a good range of stats, allowing you to get a good score in the two places that will help you be effective while still giving you at least one poor stat to help with role playing and character balance. And if you are the DM and all your players use one of those two stat generation methods you won't have some characters who are much more powerful or much less powerful the others.

Rolling stats is fun, but in long term campaigns it can be difficult if one or more of your players rolled really well and have top level stats to begin. Not only can the other players feel outclassed/useless but it limits the level up excitement for the high stat player. If the Wizard already has 20s in Intelligence and Constitution in the early game and start taking feats, they can find ASI level ups to be boring by level 12...this example is from experience.

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• Horseman
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Fair enough, like I said I’ve just never liked point buy. Not to say it’s bad, it works well for some people, just not for me. My biggest problem with point buy I guess is that it pretty much forces you to choose what stats you want to be ok, and what stats you want to be complete garbage. Because you can’t have really good, and you can’t have anything below 8.

• Swashbuckler
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Sure you can't have really awesome stats and you can't have really crappy stats with point buy, but you can have reasonably balanced stats that fall somewhere on the spectrum of 13 13 13 12 12 12 (jack of all trades, master of none)--> 15 14 13 12 10 8 (Standard Array)---> 15 15 15 8 8 8 (I only need 3 abilities. What are those other for again?). While the extremes on this list aren't likely to be super helpful to most players, they can potentially have there place. For example, the jack of all trades build could favor a half-elf bard such as ddb.ac/characters/18886784/tqRbHC. The difference between the 15 and changing one of the 12s to a 13 is negligible and likely depends on long term preference (like mine figuring that some increase in a primary stat long term would be beneficial since those stats are on the lower end.

The flip side of that is the hyper focused 3 ability set. I altered it a bit with ddb.ac/characters/18887684/6ahYow since the difference between having 17 15 16 8 8 8 and 16 15 16 8 10 8 was enough that it met a need for me, and a barbarian that is at least somewhat proficient in survival, perception, and medicine at least makes some sense. Animal Handling... I guess knowing what to do to avoid battles you don't want can fall under that as well.

• Prestidigitator
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I like the point buy system, it removes the randomness of roll and allow for customization.

I really dislike the Roll since it can scew unlucky players and make lucky ones so much better. If I were to ever use it, I would make my current players (3) roll 3 stats each and use the 2 best results from each player to create the array every player would use.

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Quote from BigLizard >>

When using "Random" systems for determining attributes, you are kind of forced into the Character Sheet first, background second method of creating characters. After all, if you write up a background that you are a brilliant scholar and roll a 5 on your INT, your characters background and sheet don't match.

Well if you roll for stats but force their order so the first one you roll is your strength and second dexterity and so on then sure you'll end up with only a couple of classes and backgrounds that make sense. But I've rarely seen anybody force order. Usually if you roll for stats you can choose where you put them so a scholar wouldn't put their 5 in intelligence - they'd probably put it in strength or charisma and put their best or second best in intelligence.

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Quote from Emmber >>

Quote from BigLizard >>

When using "Random" systems for determining attributes, you are kind of forced into the Character Sheet first, background second method of creating characters. After all, if you write up a background that you are a brilliant scholar and roll a 5 on your INT, your characters background and sheet don't match.

Well if you roll for stats but force their order so the first one you roll is your strength and second dexterity and so on then sure you'll end up with only a couple of classes and backgrounds that make sense. But I've rarely seen anybody force order. Usually if you roll for stats you can choose where you put them so a scholar wouldn't put their 5 in intelligence - they'd probably put it in strength or charisma and put their best or second best in intelligence.

Matt Colville developed a method he likes that forces the order. He has players roll the standard set of 4d6-drop lowest, in attribute order. If you don't have at least two stats of 15 or higher, you do it again. He likes the idea of players "discovering" their character rather than rolling with a pre-determined build in mind. Obviously the players need to be on board with not knowing ahead of time what class they'll be playing, but it's an intriguing idea. I don't think I'd want to use his method for a long-term campaign character, but for a game expected to last no more than a handful of sessions it might be fun.

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Quote from jd2319 >>

Matt Colville developed a method he likes that forces the order. He has players roll the standard set of 4d6-drop lowest, in attribute order. If you don't have at least two stats of 15 or higher, you do it again. He likes the idea of players "discovering" their character rather than rolling with a pre-determined build in mind. Obviously the players need to be on board with not knowing ahead of time what class they'll be playing, but it's an intriguing idea. I don't think I'd want to use his method for a long-term campaign character, but for a game expected to last no more than a handful of sessions it might be fun.

Ew yea I wouldn't like that. I'm really bad at coming up with backstories so not knowing my character ahead of time would be terrible. I mean I could make a character no problem based on stats - but they'd be completely faceless and goalless.Then again I have 20 characters here on DNDBeyond with all manner of stat layouts that I'm sure I could find one to fill the shoes of whatever I rolled.

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• Racaraide
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That is method used in Ye Olden Times (1st / 2nd ed), usually by the most grognard of DMs. I don't like it because what if someone has really wanted to try out some specific class for a while, like rogue or wizard. But then they roll their stats, and Dex/Int is a 10. Guess you can't play that character now, or if you do, have fun feeling like you can't contribute.

I don't like randomness in the dice rolling, especially in 5e, because having poor stats can make you feel underpowered, as ability boosts are much rarer to come by. But I also know that having high stats is really fun too. So I use a modified point buy, which will let you start with an 18 if your race gives a +2:

Ability Scores

stats will be a modified point buy, 35 total points, costs are

One of the other people that DMs in our group loves rolling, and the weirder the better, so we have done characters with roll all of the following, reroll one option once.1d8+101d10+82d8+24d4+24d6k31d12+6

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While I like the idea of point buy so everyone can be even on stats. I think 27 is a bit low and doesn't allow higher than 15 and lower than 8.

I think I read the average of 4d6 drop lowest is 12.24

so 6 stats could be 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13. which would make an pretty average person. Average people normally don't become adventurers or do heroic things, they become book keepers, merchants, work at a bar.