What We Saw In Chapter 683 : Was It In Fact Aizen's Bankai? Kubo's ...

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You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. What we saw in Chapter 683 : Was it in fact Aizen's Bankai? Kubo's 4th level secret?

• Thread starter Thread starter scheneizel
• Start date Start date May 21, 2017

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scheneizel

Joined May 11, 2017 Messages 107 Reaction score 21 Points 0 Firstly, I would like to point out that Kyoka Suigetsu cannot make illusions out of thin air. It requires a substitute. I would also like to point out that Kyoka Suigetsu no longer has a blade. It appears as though Aizen merged with his zanpakuto, and has retained it's hypnotic abilities. However, what we saw in chapter 683 was different from his usual illusions. 1. Aizen had activated his Kyoka Suigetsu before Yhwach arrived at Soul Society (this indicates that he has control over his zanpakuto, even though he doesn't have the physical blade). 2. His first illusion was the arrival of Ichigo and Renji. Yhwach even stated : "You're early." But the thing is, in case of Aizen's illusions, he requires a person or an object as a stand-by and then uses Kyoka Suigetsu to make it appear to be something else. So basically, it is "one person/object per illusion." But here, he created two: Ichigo and Renji appearing side by side. 3. I'm going to assume that Renji wasn't even present during the fight. I'm also going to assume that Ichigo only arrived at the scene just at the end to lop off Yhwach with Getsuga Tenshou. So if that is the case, then doesn't it appear as though two Aizens were fighting Yhwach? I'll elaborate. 4. In the beginning of the chapter, we see 'fake Ichigo' in front of Yhwach. Then we see 'fake Renji' use Souou Zabimaru from behind. Now the question is : How on earth did Aizen know that Renji had obtained a new bankai? Also, as I mentioned before, if the person in front of Yhwach was 'fake Ichigo', and the person attacking from behind was 'fake Renji', here again, we see two separate illusions operating simultaneously, a feat which we had never seen previously from Aizen. 5. We see 'fake Renji's' left arm get ripped off. Immediately afterwards we see 'fake Renji' turn back into Aizen, but this time he held a sword in his right arm and cast Hado 99 with his left (but we know that the left arm is gone). I don't know if Hado 99 was an illusion or not, to be honest. 6. After that, Yhwach tells Aizen that the fake Kyoka Suigetsu in his hand had been broken. However, the cracks were the exact same ones that were on Ichigo's sword in chapter 682. Here the question arises : Yhwach already saw Aizen bound to the chair, he had no blade in his hand. So why did Yhwach not get confused when he saw Aizen having a sword in his hand? He had probably been hypnotized to the point of no return, he probably could not even tell left from right. 7. Aizen is then blasted away from Yhwach. Then 'fake Ichigo' appears from behind. You can see parts of Souou Zabimaru falling off him and his arm already missing. So you see, again there are two separate illusions acting up at the same time. 8. Finally, Yhwach pierces a hole through Ichigo's torso. Then, the 'real Aizen' appears and says "So you think you're gazing at Kurosaki Ichigo. Fascinating." This indicates that he does not know what exactly his opponent sees as an illusion. What if this was actually Aizen's bankai? His shikai requires a substitute for his illusions, but what if his bankai can actually create illusions out of thin air? That would perfectly explain how the simultaneous illusions came into being. What if his bankai can make his opponents see things from their own knowledge? That would explain why Yhwach saw both fake Renji's and fake Ichigo's bankais. Aizen had no knowledge about them. Imagine how flawless his illusions would be if they were perceived from his opponents knowledge.. Several people speculated that this time his illusions were different because he had merged with his sword and thus has no control over his illusions, but that does not explain how Aizen was using multiple illusions at the same time. Sorry for making this post so long. But with the manga getting all rushed, perhaps Kubo wanted to show Aizen's bankai, but because of time-shortage, he had to make it cryptic and open-to-intepretation. Also, there's one more thing that leads me to believe that it was his bankai. Remember when Ichigo used Mugetsu? He had essentially merged with his zanpakuto as well, in a bankai state. Please tell me what you think. I apologize once more for making this post so long.

B. Haddrell

Joined Mar 24, 2013 Messages 6,856 Reaction score 1,753 Points 5,541 I admit it - I do not understand Aizen's part in this battle at all. There is a lot that wasn't fully explained or just left to interpretation. I understand Uryuu's part which was clear, at least to me. I have a theory about Ichigo's sword reappearing. But what Aizen thought up, how he did it, where he got that knowledge from (like, as you said, Renji's new Bankai), I have no idea. T

TripKing

Joined Apr 14, 2017 Messages 22 Reaction score 2 Points 0 I always thought Aizen somehow influenced the Almighty to make Yhwach see false futures. False "grains of sands" if you will. So when Yhwach choose these illusion futures, these illusion were shown to him. Not to say the illusion futures were real, just that once he choose an illusion future, he was forced to see it. Aizen did make Yhwach perception of time off during the first invasion. We never seen that. Perhaps that's apart of his Bankai too? S

scheneizel

Joined May 11, 2017 Messages 107 Reaction score 21 Points 0 Regarding that thing you said about 'perception of time', there was a very interesting theory that was discussed on reddit. The theory was by andygoesrawr. It was a well-accepted theory some time ago in reddit that the Hogyoku was a part of the Soul King. Some said that it was the 'third eye' of the Soul King (remember how Aizen had a third eye during his battle with Ichigo anf how he resembled the Soul King to some extent?) Anyway, the theory was that the Hogyoku had the Almighty to some extent. Because you see, the Hogyoku could lead a person to their desires, but only if that person is capable of achieving it in the first place. Isn't that similar to what the Almighty does? The Almighty picks the most favourable future and brings that to the present. But if the person in question in incapable of doing the thing he/she wants, there will be no such favourable future in case of that person.Normally, Kyoka Suigetsu alters all of your senses : sight, sound, touch, smell, taste, BUT 'perception of time' is something that is altogether different. Kyoka Suigetsu is incapable of that. Andygoesrawr said that Aizen used the Almighty on Yhwach (during the first invasion) to bring a few minutes from the future to the present, that's how he did it. It also explains how Aizen was able to undo his seals when Shunsui came to release him. He saw the future in which Shunsui had already unlocked all his seals and brought that to the present. I've made this my personal headcanon, because it sort of makes sense.But as you said, TripKing, altering the perception of time might've been a part of his bankai too. R

rharyx

Joined Aug 8, 2015 Messages 102 Reaction score 13 Points 1 I forget, when did it state that Kyokasuigetsu needed an object for the illusion to substitute with? Like, that would only make sense with visual illusions in the first place, wouldn't it. And I don't remember that ever being the case outside of the time with Momo -- like, when he made the corpse doll for Squad 4 to autopsy, that wasn't switched with anything else, it was made out of thin air and then it disappeared when he turned off his shikai.

shodic

Joined Feb 11, 2014 Messages 683 Reaction score 89 Points 76 Good theory! I don´t know if this is a bankai or not, but one thing I know for certain. Aizen is much stronger than before thanks to Ichigo so could a new capacity of his sword S

scheneizel

Joined May 11, 2017 Messages 107 Reaction score 21 Points 0

rharyx said: I forget, when did it state that Kyokasuigetsu needed an object for the illusion to substitute with? Like, that would only make sense with visual illusions in the first place, wouldn't it. And I don't remember that ever being the case outside of the time with Momo -- like, when he made the corpse doll for Squad 4 to autopsy, that wasn't switched with anything else, it was made out of thin air and then it disappeared when he turned off his shikai. Click to expand...

In case of the corpse doll, the sword itself was the substitute. In the Pendulum arc, he used a man to take his place as Shinji's second-in-command, while making that man appear to be him. A lot of us were confused about the illusion against Halibel, but on the reddit forum it was pointed out that her fin was used as the substitute. Then, on Sokyoku Hill, the illusion he used against Sajin, well, he used Gin for that one. He has always required a substitute.

Seirei55

Joined Mar 24, 2013 Messages 6,446 Reaction score 1,247 Points 2,641 Interesting conversation. Let's look back at chapter 682-I believe Renji was there; as Ichigo confronted Renji about tagging along with him and that he should have stayed back with Rukia and Orihime Spoiler Here we have Yhwach telling Ichigo about following him and included Renji as well (we can see Renji at the bottom panel, Aizen isn't in this panel). Spoiler However, here's when the confusion starts: In this panel Renji attacks and have his arm severed: Spoiler But as Yhwach begins to give the fatal blow to Renji, we see Aizen attacking: Spoiler So if Aizen has to have a substitute image, then I guess it would have been Renji (if that is the case)...who is really versed in Aizen's zanpakutou abilities? On the next page we have Aizen standing before Yhwach with a severed left arm: Spoiler So from this, it could be that it was Aizen all along attacking and not Renji, remember, Aizen told Ichigo that he had activate KS before he arrived (I believe). This might give rise to premise that Renji might not have been at the fight just yet and possibly Ichigo. Like the post held, that Ichigo might have just came in just in time to do the killing blow. My question is how is it that Aizen has KS and it supposed to have been shattered in Deicide? Funny thing, Yhwach thought he was fighting Ichigo with a severed arm? Didn't he realized that Aizen's arm was severed? Was he that much under KS influence; as to not being able to tell reality from an illusion? Last edited: May 22, 2017 S

scheneizel

Joined May 11, 2017 Messages 107 Reaction score 21 Points 0

Seirei55 said: Interesting conversation. Let's look back at chapter 682-I believe Renji was there; as Ichigo confronted Renji about tagging along with him and that he should have stayed back with Rukia and Orihime Spoiler Here we have Yhwach telling Ichigo about following him and included Renji as well (we can see Renji at the bottom panel, Aizen isn't in this panel). Spoiler However, here's when the confusion starts: In this panel Renji attacks and have his arm severed: Spoiler But as Yhwach begins to give the fatal blow to Renji, we see Aizen attacking: Spoiler So if Aizen has to have a substitute image, then I guess it would have been Renji (if that is the case)...who is really versed in Aizen's zanpakutou abilities? On the next page we have Aizen standing before Yhwach with a severed left arm: Spoiler So from this, it could be that it was Aizen all along attacking and not Renji, remember, Aizen told Ichigo that he had activate KS before he arrived (I believe). This might give rise to premise that Renji might not have been at the fight just yet and possibly Ichigo. Like the post held, that Ichigo might have just came in just in time to do the killing blow. My question is how is it that Aizen has KS and it supposed to have been shattered in Deicide? Funny thing, Yhwach thought he was fighting Ichigo with a severed arm? Didn't he realized that Aizen's arm was severed? Was he that much under KS influence; as to not being able to tell reality from an illusion? Click to expand...

Renji wasn't there at all in chapter 683. In the first image that you showed us here, Renji was using Shikai Zabimaru, but Yhwach had shattered the real Zabimaru a few chapters back. So it couldn't have been Renji. It had to have been an illusion. Also, in chapter 684, Ichigo tells Aizen : "On my way here, I had this strange familiar feeling, similar to when you had placed everyone under Kyoka Suigetsu's spell." This suggests that Ichigo had just arrived and had quickly responded to the situation, and had seized his chance to attack Yhwach from behind. Edit: Also, I believe that the images that we (the readers) saw were not what Yhwach saw. Yhwach saw fake Ichigo, with an arm missing and Souou Zabimaru falling off him, and yet he says "Now the one whose arm I shall pluck off will be yours, Ichigo." Last edited: May 22, 2017

Quincy Aizen

Joined Mar 25, 2013 Messages 252 Reaction score 80 Points 76 Edit* 2 truth and a lie. Aizen does not have the power of "complete hypnosis". His shikai is water based, and while he can use it to cast illusions. He uses his shikai only to "hide his reflection" so he appears invisible. That means his bankai is just a copy of himself. He revealed this to shunsui by already walking around in the muken before he released all three seals. That's why he seems so powerful. He hid and let his bankai (bad guy) do all the work. He could also make his bankai look like other people through the HK bc it had souls in it and could copy them. But that is "advanced Aizen". The soul king is time (starts things) and everyone sees what they want. especially in their dreams. Aizen and Urahara have both used the outlawed space time techniques (which is similar to Ichibei stealing the black from the nights in the future), and that thing Aizen is referring to is Ywach. They both have their own plans to stop them. Hoyoku are "time machines", but something has to get the ball rolling. Secret war potential (a-list of "no bodies")- Kenpachi (Strength), Urahara(Charm),Mayuri(Accuteness),Ukitake (Balance), Aizen(Desire). Last edited: Jun 25, 2017

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