What Would Happen If Saruman Gained The One Ring? - ResetEra

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Hypothetical question: What would happen if Saruman gained the One Ring?

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• Start date Dec 18, 2018

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Deleted member 16516

User requested account closure

Member Oct 27, 2017 8,427 The Uruk-hai capture Frodo and Sam at Amon Hen, thus Saruman gains possession of the most powerful of the Rings of Power, which carries in it, a greater part of Sauron's inherent might. But what does Saruman do now? Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples of Middle-earth? Does he take command of the combined forces of the enemy in Sauron's place? Does he go into hiding to study the One, knowing he cannot wield it to its full potential, and try to replicate it and create his own ruling Ring? Does he enslave Sauron, thus making him the 10th Nazgul? Does Sauron assail Orthanc in an attempt to regain the One? And what of the free peoples of Middle-earth? Now faced with the potential of two foes waging war on each other, do they come together and strike both Sauron and Saruman while they're occupied fighting for possession of the One? Some notes from Tolkien as to what would happen if others gained possession of the One Ring:

"It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end." "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." "Thus while Sauron manipulated [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil." Click to expand... Click to shrink...

From Letter #246

Platy

Member Oct 25, 2017 32,406 Brazil Paging Edmo* ...oh Ok ... my first idea is that he would be BFF of Sauron but the text at the end of your post makes me think that he would obliterate Sauron forces and subjulgate the people, since how the book pairs Saruman and Gandalf to the point that Gandalf description might give us a good idea of what Saruman would do. Is this description related to White or Grey gandalf ? Because that should have some relation on how corruptible by the ring the istar can be, right ? if you go by the "Bombadil = godlike" therefore more power means less influence of the ring OP OP

Deleted member 16516

User requested account closure

Member Oct 27, 2017 8,427

Platy said: Paging Edmo* ...oh Ok ... my first idea is that he would be BFF of Sauron but the text at the end of your post makes me think that he would obliterate Sauron forces and subjulgate the people, since how the book pairs Saruman and Gandalf to the point that Gandalf description might give us a good idea of what Saruman would do. Is this description related to White or Grey gandalf ? Because that should have some relation on how corruptible by the ring the istar can be, right ? if you go by the "Bombadil = godlike" therefore more power means less influence of the ring Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Tolkien never really made a distinction between the two as they were essentially the same being, albeit the latter been less restrained in the use of his power in the White raiment. But yes, the greater the spirit, the greater the resistance to the One's corrupting influence it seems and Saruman was the greatest of the Istari, but still arguably lesser than Sauron. Anyone lesser in spirit than Sauron would seemingly succumb. The thing is, and this is extremely important, Saruman was already on his way to damnation even without the One and was crafting his own Rings in secret. Doing good in Middle-earth would not be high on his list of priorities and with the One, his fall to evil would be swift and complete.

Siggy-P

Avenger Mar 18, 2018 12,768 I think Sauron would have immediately redirected his armies towards Isengard, as he redirected them towards Minith Tirith when he though Aragorn had the ring. Sauramon would be extremely powerful but adversely Sauron would know he'd taken it for himself and go all out. I'm assuming Sauron would be limited to the physical forces under his command here as likely Sauramon has the will to resist any attempt to control or manipulate him. So is there anything to suggest Sauramon would have been able to stand against the Nazgul? Cus Sauramon feared them I believe.

Koukalaka

Member Oct 28, 2017 11,053 Scotland No Deal Brexit... wait, wrong thread. Spoiler ... Or is it?

legendofgood

Member Oct 25, 2017 514 My brain is having trouble reconciling this sentence: "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." I don't see how 'righteous good' would be worse than Sauron, haha. But I guess Tokien's the boss.

thefro

Member Oct 25, 2017 6,029 Probably similar to Tolkien's letter about Gandalf getting the ring, but Saruman would be more neutral/evil.

Siggy-P said: I think Sauron would have immediately redirected his armies towards Isengard, as he redirected them towards Minith Tirith when he though Aragorn had the ring. Sauramon would be extremely powerful but adversely Sauron would know he'd taken it for himself and go all out. I'm assuming Sauron would be limited to the physical forces under his command here as likely Sauramon has the will to resist any attempt to control or manipulate him. So is there anything to suggest Sauramon would have been able to stand against the Nazgul? Cus Sauramon feared them I believe. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

The Nazgul are controlled by the One Ring, so Saruman would be their master now.

Titik

Member Oct 25, 2017 7,491 Whoever was powerful enough to beat Sauron would beat him and then proceed to subjugate others according to thier idea of what's good for them. Galadrriel would have been a tyrannical queen obsessed with all things beautiful. Elrond would be similar. Gandalf would have made the hobbits his generals and demand pipeweed sacrifices. Saruman would have increased automation and industrialized the whole world. Ragadast would have made the world be overrun by animals.

Hayeya

Member Oct 29, 2017 4,051 Canada Galadriel with the ring will be something to behold due to her OP power and her weaknesses. The dark witch.

Rivenblade

Member Nov 1, 2017 37,681 Just made this for fun...

Hogendaz85

Member Dec 6, 2017 3,022 He probably would have put it back on his finger.

swift-darius

Member May 10, 2018 943 conjecture on my part, but here goes I think his power would be greatly amplified, and he'd no longer be just a peripheral subordinate to sauron. rather than merely submitting, he'd contest sauron's power, and definitely ramp up the industry and production of isengard from orthanc - think of the imagery associated with him as bespoiling nature and pastoral peace through his machinery and pollution. I could see him attempt to deforest all Fangorn, incorporate the dunlendings and basically enslave rohan as a vassal state to supply him and further blend orc and men. on that note, there'd almost certainly be a ramp up in the spawning (production?) of uruk-hai to establish the White Hand/isengard as a pre-eminent power in middle earth from there? with a consolidated power base and military capacity, maybe you see him march southeast to aid sauron in toppling gondor in a pincer siege, if the alliance holds. maybe he moves north to clash with the misty mountain goblins and secure some of moria for its riches, or even clash with his old ally galadriel and contest lothlorien - surely the one ring would overpower nenya's protection? I could see his dominian expand to mirkwood and the brown lands, closing in on mordor's borders - and in that situation, it would be near impossible for gondor to survive closed in as they would be by isengard to the north, mordor to the east and umbar and harad to the south. isengard's power would probably also cross the gap of rohan through vassal dunland and up into eregion, likely toppling the arnor rangers' protection and thus leaving the shire fully exposed - and we all know what saruman thinks of hobbits in the long run, I don't see the alliance with mordor lasting at all if he had the one ring. I imagine after the fall of gondor the kingdom would become a no man's ground in a war between the two evil powers, with isengard inevitably falling, both with insurrection of the free peoples in its territory but especially through the ring's betrayal to return to its true master. and thus sauron would win out in the end, given enough time! but middle earth would look really interesting and dystopian in the lead-up to it

Indy in the Fridge

Banned Oct 30, 2017 15,278

legendofgood said: My brain is having trouble reconciling this sentence: "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." I don't see how 'righteous good' would be worse than Sauron, haha. But I guess Tokien's the boss. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Think of it as Gandalf wielding immense power while deciding what was and wasn't "good." It would be Gandalf's will that held dominion over Middle-Earth without forethought as to what the will of his people might be. My way or the highway sort of thing.

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer

Member Oct 25, 2017 33,110 He'd probably try to overthrow Sauron

cj_iwakura

Banned Oct 25, 2017 10,195 Coral Springs, FL Twice the pride, double the fall.

Stouffers

Banned Oct 25, 2017 3,924 Nothing. None of this exists.

BlueGeezer

Member Oct 28, 2017 476 As pointed out Saruman was slowly corrupted over time without even going near the ring. While he had clearly a powerful will I feel it is not enough at the point of claiming the ring. I see an end for Saruman at the gates of Mordor as he leads an army to overthrow Sauron. Only for him to finally succumb to the rings influence and meekly hand over the ring to Sauron. And is then stabbed in the back by one of his army's lieutenant's. Oh let's say an enslaved Boromir.

Fliesen

Member Oct 25, 2017 10,897

Siggy-P said: I think Sauron would have immediately redirected his armies towards Isengard, as he redirected them towards Minith Tirith when he though Aragorn had the ring. Sauramon would be extremely powerful but adversely Sauron would know he'd taken it for himself and go all out. I'm assuming Sauron would be limited to the physical forces under his command here as likely Sauramon has the will to resist any attempt to control or manipulate him. So is there anything to suggest Sauramon would have been able to stand against the Nazgul? Cus Sauramon feared them I believe. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

legendofgood said: My brain is having trouble reconciling this sentence: "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." I don't see how 'righteous good' would be worse than Sauron, haha. But I guess Tokien's the boss. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I guess even a benevolent all-powerful dictator is still a dictator. Also, doesn't the ring inevitably corrupt? It doesn't just make a good person "good person with powers". Like, look at what happened to Frodo - a person who seems to be as pure of heart as it gets. And even he turned against his best friend in a fit of rage.

Deleted member 733

Banned Oct 25, 2017 3,686

thefro said: Probably similar to Tolkien's letter about Gandalf getting the ring, but Saruman would be more neutral/evil. The Nazgul are controlled by the One Ring, so Saruman would be their master now. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Stupid question, but why didn't Frodo control the Nazgul? Do you have to have strong will and "claim" it for that to happen?

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲

Member Oct 29, 2017 20,973 It would have amplified all of Saruman's worst qualities whilst slowly eating away at him; I don't think he would have ever been an equal or superior to Sauron. He clearly thought he could be, but it was in the ring's nature to fuel those delusions.

Dary

Member Oct 27, 2017 10,154 The English Wilderness

Koukalaka said: No Deal Brexit... wait, wrong thread. Spoiler ... Or is it? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

The hobbits would totally push for a second brexit.

Koukalaka

Member Oct 28, 2017 11,053 Scotland

Dary said: The hobbits would totally push for a second brexit. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

The Shire being Pro-Brexit actually makes a lot of sense. "If you break the current agreement with Bree and Rivendell, who will buy your oversized Pumpkins and beer?"

BladeoftheImmortal

Banned Oct 27, 2017 6,467 I still never understood what powers it had. The movies do a bad job of conveying it. So I'm a human and I take the ring for myself. What exactly does it do for me besides turning me into saurons lackey?

Keywork

Member Oct 25, 2017 3,477

Blizzard said: Stupid question, but why didn't Frodo control the Nazgul? Do you have to have strong will and "claim" it for that to happen? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Because Frodo was not the Master of the One as Sauron was. Remember they are controlled by the 9 rings Sauron crafted, so as long as Sauron lived, the Nazgul were always going to do as he bid. They faded away once Sauron died when the One was destroyed. This next part is more for Edmund Dante's, but wouldn't Sauron never really be defeated as long as the One existed? This is the whole reason there is even a threat in LOTR. Sauron never was actually dead due to Isildur not destroying the One. So as long as the One exists, Sauron will exist. So even if Saruman might enjoy some centuries of control, Sauron will always come back. That is until someone destroys the ring. Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

Anoregon

The SHAWshank Redemption

Member Oct 25, 2017 16,931

Dary said: The hobbits would totally push for a second brexit. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Fuck this is a good post. On topic: I'm honestly not sure how I think things would shake out between Saruman with the ring vs Sauron, but I expect the result wouldn't matter much for the free peoples. Saruman as a malevolent, selfish ruler would probably not look much different than Sauron if you are on the wrong side of it.

Deleted member 733

Banned Oct 25, 2017 3,686

Keywork said: Because Frodo was not the Master of the One as Sauron was. Remember they are controlled by the 9 rings Sauron crafted, so as long as Sauron lived, the Nazgul were always going to do as he bid. They faded away once Sauron died when the One was destroyed. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I could believe that, but the earlier poster said they would obey Saruman if he got the ring. That's where my confusion lay.

Atisha

Banned Nov 28, 2017 1,331 If the old White Wizard gained the Ring he would set his sights on the greatest threat - Mordor and Sauron. He would pine over a method to dispatch the Dark Lord Sauron, or overthrow him, or render him mute, and then take up Mordors Army. In disguise if need be. Then he would set out to rule, riding the might of both armies - and the power of the Ring.

Airegin

Member Dec 10, 2017 4,089

legendofgood said: My brain is having trouble reconciling this sentence: "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." I don't see how 'righteous good' would be worse than Sauron, haha. But I guess Tokien's the boss. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Sauron represents capitalism while Gandalf represents Marxism?

ahoyhoy

Member Oct 25, 2017 4,447

BladeoftheImmortal said: I still never understood what powers it had. The movies do a bad job of conveying it. So I'm a human and I take the ring for myself. What exactly does it do for me besides turning me into saurons lackey? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Jack and shit as far as I can tell. The Ring seems like it should be a power you can wield, but you can't. You might hear that wisdom, but if you're under it's sway you still really think you can benefit from having it. Maybe you heard the stories of how it only can be used by the Sauron and only in the pursuit of evil and control, but... surely you, a person of pure heart and personal strength, can make it work. It's gotta be worth the risk, right? I mean, it's the One Freakin Ring! Surely you can use it for something! Or at the very least keep it out of evil's hands! But of course ring is rigged, but you don't realize it until it's too late. It's a great metaphor for the temptations of wealth, power and influence in general.

Siggy-P

Avenger Mar 18, 2018 12,768

thefro said: The Nazgul are controlled by the One Ring, so Saruman would be their master now. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

But Sauron had the 9 rings, so he had control over the Nazgul: "Sauron ... still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills." - Tolkien, letter 246. I believe there is something from Tolkien son saying the wearer of the ring could give basic commands to them though but I can't remember where at the moment so don't quote me on that.

Platy

Member Oct 25, 2017 32,406 Brazil

Siggy-P said: But Sauron had the 9 rings, so he had control over the Nazgul: "Sauron ... still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills." - Tolkien, letter 246. I believe there is something from Tolkien son saying the wearer of the ring could give basic commands to them though but I can't remember where at the moment so don't quote me on that. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

ins't that the whole point of the "One Ring to rule them all" ?

Siggy-P

Avenger Mar 18, 2018 12,768

Platy said: ins't that the whole point of the "One Ring to rule them all" ? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

When in Sauron's possession.

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure

Banned Nov 3, 2017 5,215 Sauron would had send the ring wraiths to fuck Saruman up.

adj_noun

Avenger Oct 25, 2017 22,771 Pretty sure it'd be this 24/7, all across Middle Earth.

Anoregon

The SHAWshank Redemption

Member Oct 25, 2017 16,931

Fercho said: Sauron would had send the ring wraiths to fuck Saruman up. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

And Saruman would likely fuck them up. The primary power of the Nazgul is in their ability to instill fear and thus weakness, which even mortal humans can resist. The Witch King is, I believe, the only one who is actually a formidable opponent in battle. Saruman with the Ring in his possession (having the will, knowledge, and power to make far greater use of it than someone like Frodo or Gollum) would be more than a match for the Nazgul. That's assuming he can't use the ring to dominate them outright.

Weegian

Member Oct 27, 2017 3,889 In place of a Dark Lord, you would have a dark lord! Not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me, and despair!

Carl2291

Banned Oct 27, 2017 1,782 Wouldn't it take Saruman a significant amount of time to actually master the ring, giving Sauron the time to make a move against him?

Platy

Member Oct 25, 2017 32,406 Brazil

Siggy-P said: When in Sauron's possession. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I always saw it as "anyone powerfull enough can do it" like how anyone can wear a dc lantern ring but not everyone can tap it to it's full potential

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure

Banned Nov 3, 2017 5,215

Anoregon said: And Saruman would likely fuck them up. The primary power of the Nazgul is in their ability to instill fear and thus weakness, which even mortal humans can resist. The Witch King is, I believe, the only one who is actually a formidable opponent in battle. Saruman with the Ring in his possession (having the will, knowledge, and power to make far greater use of it than someone like Frodo or Gollum) would be more than a match for the Nazgul. That's assuming he can't use the ring to dominate them outright. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

But i was under the impresion that the ring can not be used by anyone other than Sauron.

Anoregon

The SHAWshank Redemption

Member Oct 25, 2017 16,931

Weegian said: In place of a Dark Lord, you would have a dark lord! Not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me, and despair! Click to expand... Click to shrink...

That's essentially what Gandalf says of himself with the ring, and Edmond elaborated on. Think of it as pure, unwavering Lawful Good. Adherence to the tenets and order imposed by Gandalf, in an effort to bring peace, would be utterly oppressive and stifling. Instead of extreme darkness, the world would be enveloped in blinding, terrifying light.

Fercho said: But i was under the impresion that the ring can not be used by anyone other than Sauron. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Sauron is the one true master of the ring and the only entity that can use it to its full and ultimate effect, but other powerful beings can still make great use of it. Remember that without the ring in his possession, Sauron is at a fraction of his former strength. A suitably strong entity in possession of the ring (such as Gandalf, Galadriel, or Saruman) would likely be able to defeat him, or at least subdue him so that he was no longer a threat to their rule.

Zvonimir Boban

Banned Oct 25, 2017 7,523

legendofgood said: My brain is having trouble reconciling this sentence: "Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)." I don't see how 'righteous good' would be worse than Sauron, haha. But I guess Tokien's the boss. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

He'd still be a total dictator but at least with Sauron the good guys could clearly set themselves and their goals apart from what was evil. When the good guy becomes a dictator then it's no longer black and white, what is 'good' becomes harder to identify and people even start to resent what the 'good' guy is doing. That's without mentioning the fact that he would become corrupted over time and then you have all the centrists lining up to chide the resistance with "but what about Sauron?" EDIT: There's plenty of sci-fi that asks similar questions, would want to you live in a Minority Report society where people get locked up for crimes they haven't yet committed? It's authoritarianism motivated by a sense of righteousness after all. Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

BladeoftheImmortal

Banned Oct 27, 2017 6,467

Anoregon said: That's essentially what Gandalf says of himself with the ring, and Edmond elaborated on. Think of it as pure, unwavering Lawful Good. Adherence to the tenets and order imposed by Gandalf, in an effort to bring peace, would be utterly oppressive and stifling. Instead of extreme darkness, the world would be enveloped in blinding, terrifying light. Sauron is the one true master of the ring and the only entity that can use it to its full and ultimate effect, but other powerful beings can still make great use of it. Remember that without the ring in his possession, Sauron is at a fraction of his former strength. A suitably strong entity in possession of the ring (such as Gandalf, Galadriel, or Saruman) would likely be able to defeat him, or at least subdue him so that he was no longer a threat to their rule. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

What does the ring do for sauron that he couldn't have done without it? OP OP

Deleted member 16516

User requested account closure

Member Oct 27, 2017 8,427

swift-darius said: conjecture on my part, but here goes I think his power would be greatly amplified, and he'd no longer be just a peripheral subordinate to sauron. rather than merely submitting, he'd contest sauron's power, and definitely ramp up the industry and production of isengard from orthanc - think of the imagery associated with him as bespoiling nature and pastoral peace through his machinery and pollution. I could see him attempt to deforest all Fangorn, incorporate the dunlendings and basically enslave rohan as a vassal state to supply him and further blend orc and men. on that note, there'd almost certainly be a ramp up in the spawning (production?) of uruk-hai to establish the White Hand/isengard as a pre-eminent power in middle earth from there? with a consolidated power base and military capacity, maybe you see him march southeast to aid sauron in toppling gondor in a pincer siege, if the alliance holds. maybe he moves north to clash with the misty mountain goblins and secure some of moria for its riches, or even clash with his old ally galadriel and contest lothlorien - surely the one ring would overpower nenya's protection? I could see his dominian expand to mirkwood and the brown lands, closing in on mordor's borders - and in that situation, it would be near impossible for gondor to survive closed in as they would be by isengard to the north, mordor to the east and umbar and harad to the south. isengard's power would probably also cross the gap of rohan through vassal dunland and up into eregion, likely toppling the arnor rangers' protection and thus leaving the shire fully exposed - and we all know what saruman thinks of hobbits in the long run, I don't see the alliance with mordor lasting at all if he had the one ring. I imagine after the fall of gondor the kingdom would become a no man's ground in a war between the two evil powers, with isengard inevitably falling, both with insurrection of the free peoples in its territory but especially through the ring's betrayal to return to its true master. and thus sauron would win out in the end, given enough time! but middle earth would look really interesting and dystopian in the lead-up to it Click to expand... Click to shrink...

A very good summary of what might have happened. One can also speculate that Saruman would want to emulate the technological advancements of the Númenóreans at the height of their power and even try to surpass their achievements.

Blizzard said: I could believe that, but the earlier poster said they would obey Saruman if he got the ring. That's where my confusion lay. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Tolkien said in a letter that the Nazgul would feign subservience to Frodo, humouring him until Sauron's arrival. At that moment Sauron would crush Frodo, not fearing Frodo as a 'Ring-Lord'. As follows:

"When Sauron was aware of the seizure of the Ring his one hope was in its power: that the claimant would be unable to relinquish it until Sauron had time to deal with him. Frodo too would then probably, if not attacked, have had to take the same way: cast himself with the Ring into the abyss. If not he would of course have completely failed. It is an interesting problem: how Sauron would have acted or the claimant have resisted. Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring. The wearer would not be invisible to them, but the reverse; and the more vulnerable to their weapons. But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted merely in fear and wished only to use (in vain) the Ring's subsidiary power of conferring invisibility. He had grown since then. Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of command and domination? Not wholly. I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him or taken him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand – laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills. That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack. Once he lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt – saving help from outside, which was hardly even remotely possible. Frodo had become a considerable person, but of a special kind: in spiritual enlargement rather than in increase of physical or mental power; his will was much stronger than it had been, but so far it had been exercised in resisting not using the Ring and with the object of destroying it. He needed time, much time, before he could control the Ring or (which in such a case is the same) before it could control him; before his will and arrogance could grow to a stature in which he could dominate other major hostile wills. Even so for a long time his acts and commands would still have to seem 'good' to him, to be for the benefit of others beside himself. The situation as between Frodo with the Ring and the Eight6 might be compared to that of a small brave man armed with a devastating weapon, faced by eight savage warriors of great strength and agility armed with poisoned blades. The man's weakness was that he did not know how to use his weapon yet; and he was by temperament and training averse to violence. Their weakness that the man's weapon was a thing that filled them with fear as an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility. I think they would have shown 'servility'. They would have greeted Frodo as 'Lord'. With fair speeches they would have induced him to leave the Sammath Naur – for instance 'to look upon his new kingdom, and behold afar with his new sight the abode of power that he must now claim and turn to his own purposes'. Once outside the chamber while he was gazing some of them would have destroyed the entrance. Frodo would by then probably have been already too enmeshed in great plans of reformed rule – like but far greater and wider than the vision that tempted Sam (III 177) – to heed this. But if he still preserved some sanity and partly understood the significance of it, so that he refused now to go with them to Barad-dûr, they would simply have waited. Until Sauron himself came. In any case a confrontation of Frodo and Sauron would soon have taken place, if the Ring was intact. Its result was inevitable. Frodo would have been utterly overthrown: crushed to dust, or preserved in torment as a gibbering slave. Sauron would not have feared the Ring! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of 'mortals' no one, not even Aragorn. In the contest with the Palantír Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form their power must be far greater when actually physically present." Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

Dragoon

Banned Oct 31, 2017 11,231

Indy in the Fridge said: Think of it as Gandalf wielding immense power while deciding what was and wasn't "good." It would be Gandalf's will that held dominion over Middle-Earth without forethought as to what the will of his people might be. My way or the highway sort of thing. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yeah I get it.. but it sounds like some proper bullshit coming out of Tolkien.

Siggy-P

Avenger Mar 18, 2018 12,768

Platy said: I always saw it as "anyone powerfull enough can do it" like how anyone can wear a dc lantern ring but not everyone can tap it to it's full potential Click to expand... Click to shrink...

The Ring is more like a Horcrux from Harry Potter though than just an energy source. But instead of pouring his soul I to it he poured his power. So anyone powerful enough can draw a lot of power from it, but not as much as Sauron can. And as long as the Ring exists Sauron will exist in some spiritual form. And the Ring will always subtly be trying to get to its original master.

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure

Banned Nov 3, 2017 5,215

Anoregon said: That's essentially what Gandalf says of himself with the ring, and Edmond elaborated on. Think of it as pure, unwavering Lawful Good. Adherence to the tenets and order imposed by Gandalf, in an effort to bring peace, would be utterly oppressive and stifling. Instead of extreme darkness, the world would be enveloped in blinding, terrifying light. Sauron is the one true master of the ring and the only entity that can use it to its full and ultimate effect, but other powerful beings can still make great use of it. Remember that without the ring in his possession, Sauron is at a fraction of his former strength. A suitably strong entity in possession of the ring (such as Gandalf, Galadriel, or Saruman) would likely be able to defeat him, or at least subdue him so that he was no longer a threat to their rule. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

But the Stari are low level beings , including Saruman. I don't see the ring being of much use to Saruman, specially for it to be used against Sauron, if i remember correctly the Ring has a mind of its own and always at the service of Sauron. Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

Anoregon

The SHAWshank Redemption

Member Oct 25, 2017 16,931

BladeoftheImmortal said: What does the ring do for sauron that he couldn't have done without it? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Specifically? I have no idea. But it's literally a part of him. He is not whole without it.

Fercho said: But the Stari are low level beings , including Saruman. I don't see the ring being of much use to Saruman, specially for it to be used against Sauron, if i remember correctly the Ring as a mind of its own and always at the service of Sauron. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Well, we are given no reason to disbelieve the accounts of folks like Gandalf and Galadriel, who state that if they had the ring they would be capable of great and terrible feats. Saruman was inherently stronger than Gandalf, at least at first, so it stands to reason that he would also gain considerable power from it.

Trojita

Member Oct 25, 2017 5,721 Sauron's One Ring works off a similar concept to the later works of Yoshihiro Togashi on the properties of the mystical energy and skill system named Nen within the comic book Hunter x Hunter. It is later introduced that within the world of Hunter x Hunter, specific abilities can be strengthened or even become possible by putting self restrictions or disadvantages in place. Sauron's One Ring made him overall more powerful because he put all of his power in an object that he was capable of losing. Somehow within the world of LOTR giving yourself a disadvantage like this, separating your power from your body into a crafted object, gives the wielder more power. The reason it is frightening to think about Gandolf and Saruman putting on the ring is that this would be in essence giving them the power of two Maiar with the corrupting influence. A non-Sauron Maiar would likely no longer be bound by the restrictions put on their mortal form as well as gaining all of the power Sauron implanted into the ring. OP OP

Deleted member 16516

User requested account closure

Member Oct 27, 2017 8,427

Keywork said: Because Frodo was not the Master of the One as Sauron was. Remember they are controlled by the 9 rings Sauron crafted, so as long as Sauron lived, the Nazgul were always going to do as he bid. They faded away once Sauron died when the One was destroyed. This next part is more for Edmund Dante's, but wouldn't Sauron never really be defeated as long as the One existed? This is the whole reason there is even a threat in LOTR. Sauron never was actually dead due to Isildur not destroying the One. So as long as the One exists, Sauron will exist. So even if Saruman might enjoy some centuries of control, Sauron will always come back. That is until someone destroys the ring. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yes, Sauron would endure as long as the One existed. His spirit was already very potent and with the One his power was amplified (when in possession) and sustained (without it). But in creating the One, he essentially gave himself an Achilles heel. Destroy the ring and you vanquish Sauron utterly, beyond recovery. Not death, but worse, clawing at the physical world with no power left, a mere ghost. He would have been better off without the One. There would no way to destroy him, only banishment into the Void along with his predecessor. His Master on the other hand was part of the world itself. Thus, Morgoth's Ring. The only way to remove the taint of Morgoth was to end the world itself and start anew. Last edited: Dec 19, 2018

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure

Banned Nov 3, 2017 5,215

Anoregon said: Specifically? I have no idea. But it's literally a part of him. He is not whole without it. Well, we are given no reason to disbelieve the accounts of folks like Gandalf and Galadriel, who state that if they had the ring they would be capable of great and terrible feats. Saruman was inherently stronger than Gandalf, at least at first, so it stands to reason that he would also gain considerable power from it. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yeah. I still think that these accounts are influenced by their percieved power of the ring and its lies (kinda like Boromir thinking that with the ring the could defeat Mordor) only for them to put the ring on find out the truth the hard way. But since we don't have any more information i believe it is open to interpretation.

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