When Did Cars Start Having Computer Parts? Thinking About EMP ...

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Rancho5 R The kids are growing up and leaving the roost, so maybe I can afford a BOV. I'd rather not modify a newer one but just get an old 4x4 with no electronics. I'm thinking an older diesel Blazer, or something like that. What year would I need to go before, to make sure it had no parts an EMP could affect? Status Not open for further replies. #1 · Aug 19, 2011 The kids are growing up and leaving the roost, so maybe I can afford a BOV. I'd rather not modify a newer one but just get an old 4x4 with no electronics. I'm thinking an older diesel Blazer, or something like that. What year would I need to go before, to make sure it had no parts an EMP could affect? Sort by Oldest first Oldest first Newest first Most reactions #2 · Aug 19, 2011 A handful of vehicles in the mid-late 70's began using integrated circuits. Here's a rough timeline of onboard diagnostics from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#History #3 · Aug 19, 2011 around 1973 #4 · Aug 19, 2011 yea u have to go pretty far back to get something with little to no electronics. #17 · Aug 20, 2011 As far back as 1998? Dodge Rams with Cummins diesels before the 98 model year don't use electronics for critical systems except the charging system. If you bypass the fuel shutoff solenoid, which is very easy then you would be fine. The intake heater has a timer on it and maybe some relays, but you could have an override with a switch. This leaves relays and solenoids which you will have in almost any modern car or other equipment that doesn't have a manual mechanism to start it (like a kick start motorcycle). Many cars have had electric fuel pumps for a while. Before electronic ignitions, we had points and condensors (capacitor) and an ignition coil (transformer). This gets down to just how bad an EMP you expect. If it is really bad/close, then it can wipe out windings in motors/generators/alternators, ignition coils, condensors and yes even points. In that case, you are pretty much left with roll starting a diesel down a hill and hope that it is warm enough when you do because diesels are cold blooded. Modern IC (integrated circuit) electronics are much more sensitive to EMP/etc. because of their nature, compared to discrete electronics - they are not made to handle the amperages that discrete electronics often handle. But they have been improving in some applications over the years - I would rather take a chance on a 2010 car with EFI than a 1978 car with EFI. Personally, I am not too worried - my BOV is a 1997 Dodge Ram diesel 4x4 truck with manual transmission.

: My bike has EFI and no manual start, but I don't buy into any of the EMP scenarios much. I go the pre-electronics diesel because it is easier for me to work on. 0 Reply #5 · Aug 19, 2011 Except for HEI ignitions it's quite possible to find vehicles without computer controls up to 1980. After that it's very hard to find but a select few vehicles. As an example the 1980 Monte Carlo I have has an HEI ignition but no computer command module. Not sure how important points are over the HEI for an EMP. It also has a standard carburetor. No throttle body or fuel injection. #6 · Aug 19, 2011 I'd say about the simplest car you can probably still easily get would be any classic VW Beetle... Small enough too that you could probably craft a Faraday Cage to keep it in... #7 · Aug 19, 2011 So you guys protect your vehicle's electronics to run on what fuel? Pretty sure it takes electricity to produce it, pump it, right? I don't get the EMP thing... if it happens, there's no reason to protect anything, unless everybody (or a SUBSTANTIAL number) else does. You'd be better off prepping for the financial sheet storm that's coming. A saved vehicle without fuel is like a rifle without ammo. #8 · Aug 19, 2011 I'm not saying the likelihood is high. But think of it this way... If an EMP does strike, many vehicles would be inoperable. They'd likely all have on average a half tank of fuel, right? And it is possible that people have extra fuel stored. At a minimum, you may have enough fuel in your EMP proof vehicle to get a couple hundred miles, which is a hell of a lot faster with a car than on foot. 3 Replies #9 · Aug 20, 2011 Depends on the car. Big 3 went to electronic ignition in the mid 70's Japanese cars in the late 70's. It's usually easy to convert an early 80's car back to breaker point ignition and carb fuel system. #10 · Aug 20, 2011 If you can afford it, just buy yourself a classic car of some sort to occasionally drive around town. An old Ford El Rancho or Chevy El Camino are pretty good ideas. Some military vehicles, even the pretty new ones, sometimes come without computer chips in them so that is also an option too. Just check under the hood, with a good mechanis or with the internet before you buy a car to eliminate the computer chips. #11 · Aug 20, 2011 Dodge trucks had a mechanical diesel engine until 1997. Their gas vehicles had carbs into the '80s. Only electronics were the ignition modules. These would be easy to protect/change out. #12 · Aug 20, 2011 Get a deuce and a half. You're done. #13 · Aug 20, 2011 According to US Army tests, modern vehicles with sophisticated electronics also have a great deal of sophisticated EMI shielding that would prevent damage from an EMP. Even older cars have condensors that could be damaged, as well as starting systems and batteries. You really can't go wrong with a diesel. Or a bicycle. Az #15 · Aug 20, 2011

Rancho5 said: The kids are growing up and leaving the roost, so maybe I can afford a BOV. I'd rather not modify a newer one but just get an old 4x4 with no electronics. I'm thinking an older diesel Blazer, or something like that. What year would I need to go before, to make sure it had no parts an EMP could affect? Click to expand...

your going to have to get a REALLY old vechile for NO electronics. think hand crank but still you got to have something fireing the spark plugs. an emp will not just fry the computer on a car it will super charge any and all conductive wire , so any wireing will hold a charge and could burn up what ever its hooked up to,like a silanoid or starter #16 · Aug 20, 2011 Interesting fact -- a modern automobile has between 10 million and 20 million lines of software code for it's computerized electronics. This is way more than the first Space Shuttle had. #21 · Aug 20, 2011 I suppose there is always the Model T. Handcrank, about as simple as a car can be, no electrical parts whatsoever except a magneto and ignition coil. Maximum speed of maybe 20MPH, but they CAN traverse a surprisingly rugged terrain. They sort of had to, given that there were no paved roads to speak of back when they were designed... #22 · Aug 20, 2011 If EMP would knock out the windings in a starter motor or solenoid/relay, it will probably also knock out the windings in a coil - a transformer is a transformer (induction coil), if transformers on power lines get knocked out, then so too would the ignition coil in a car - even more so since most power line equipment is designed to take spikes and an ignition coil in a car is not. Show more replies 0 Reply #23 · Aug 20, 2011 The ignition coils in a Model T Ford are little more than coils of copper wire. How badly can something that simple be damaged by EMP? Especially if they aren't energized at the time it hits... The magneto in a Model T are nothing more than magnets in the flywheel. It's an extremely simple machine. It had to be, it was the first ever mass produced mechanical vehicle. #28 · Aug 20, 2011 Any wire can only take so much amperage before it overheats and melts and then there is an open - at which point it will no longer conduct electricity. Go look at a 1960s or 1950s points ignition car. On the firewall you will see something that looks like this:

The white thing, not the black box. That is a ballast resistor. As the car engine warms up so does it, and as it warms its resistance increases because the ignition coil needs less voltage because the engine needs less spark. When the engine is cold it needs all the spark it can get to start. Now have that resistor short, or more likely break (it is ceramic) and you bypass it to get home. Watch your ignition coil balloon up because it overheats and eventually it won't work anymore. It doesn't take much. It isn't about complexity, it is about whether something can conduct the current or not. It has very little to do with complexity at all (as much as I hate how complex and coupled car electronics have become, that has little to do with their vulnerability to EMP) - except for the fact that there are so many electronics systems that can cripple a car with those systems. It is fairly simple; if you are close enough and/or the EMP is strong enough, the EMP can overwhelm anything that conducts electricity - even just a wire between two poles. It also has little to do with whether it is energized, it has to do with whether it is shielded or not at the time of the burst. Turned on or not it makes no difference. 0 Reply #24 · Aug 20, 2011 Whilst you're getting an old style simple electrical system vehicle invest in a hand-powered pump for siphoning fuel from tanks - the type they use for pumping oil out of drums are ideal. There will be a lot of abandoned vehicles and inoperative fuel stations where a hand pump will be jolly useful. #26 · Aug 20, 2011 I think that any useable vehicles will be snatched by the authorities for there use..Improvized ambulance,patrol vehicle etc.. #27 · Aug 20, 2011 So you go to a junk yard, buy some extra computer chips and store those chips in a Faraday Cage to protect them from a CME or EMP. If you have a CME or EMP you replace the burned out part with one from your protected area. How's that for a simple plan? #29 · Aug 20, 2011 Make sure they work first. What I recommend if you are going to do that is to take the critical parts on your car and put those in shielding and replace them with new/used parts. Then the spare parts in the shielded container are known to be good when you put them in there. If you don't want to go to that trouble (there are a lot of sensors and stuff on a newer car), then get the new parts and make sure they stay in their shielding bag that they come in, and put those in a shielded container. 0 Reply Status Not open for further replies. You have insufficient privileges to reply here.

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