When In Doubt Throtte Out. What Does That Mean? | Page 2

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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by HoratioLegrande, Nov 5, 2011.

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1. DAKEZ, Nov 6, 2011 #21

   DAKEZ Long timer

   Joined: Mar 18, 2007 Oddometer: 19,879 Location: Begin Op Zoom

   "When in doubt, Gas it! It may not solve the problem but it will end the suspense"

   #21
2. high dangler, Nov 6, 2011 #22

   high dangler Been here awhile

   Joined: Aug 6, 2011 Oddometer: 535 Location: pa.

   markk53 said: ↑

   I can't remember the last time I heard someone say "I got into a corner way slow and ran off the inside!" Click to expand...

   now thats funny!

   #22
3. HoratioLegrande, Nov 6, 2011 #23

   HoratioLegrande Adventurer

   Joined: Sep 16, 2011 Oddometer: 60

   Look at the guy in the kill boy thread. It's not stupidity it's ignorance and it won't be ignorance once I understand. . So I ask. markk53 said: ↑

   Then you sure as heck aren't in any sort of danger other than your own stupidity if you don't take advantage of the margin you have to the outside. :huh Hardly a drastic situation. I can't remember the last time I heard someone say "I got into a corner way slow and ran off the inside!" Click to expand...

   #23
4. JeffS77, Nov 6, 2011 #24

   JeffS77 cheap bastard

   Joined: Apr 23, 2006 Oddometer: 3,475 Location: Riverside , CA

   markk53 said: ↑

   Roll up in a ball and kiss your ass goodby? :eek1 If you locked the rear wheel in a corner you usually will have dumped your butt on the ground at that time, so it's kind of too late... sorry.Click to expand...

   not always the case...I have located up my rear tire (knobbies) on asphalt a lot of times and have never hit the deck or over shot/ran off a corner...maybe my experience racing speedway and flat track help..dont know but in those situations its a throttle on skid. Coming in hot on the brakes and down shifitng a little early is usually what locks it up for me...keep your eyes on where you want to go and ez off the brake hold throttle or roll on a little..seems to work at least thats what i think i do...or maybe when it happens enough times it becomes more of a reflex to save it and you dont really think about it

   #24
5. greybeard rider, Nov 6, 2011 #25

   greybeard rider Adventurer

   Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Oddometer: 45

   got twist of the wrist. when I first started riding sportbkikes helped me understand alot. think I'll reread it . Thanks

   #25
6. markk53, Nov 7, 2011 #26

   markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

   Joined: Dec 20, 2007 Oddometer: 32,372 Location: Delaware Ohio

   JeffS77 said: ↑

   not always the case...I have located up my rear tire (knobbies) on asphalt a lot of times and have never hit the deck or over shot/ran off a corner...maybe my experience racing speedway and flat track help..dont know but in those situations its a throttle on skid. Coming in hot on the brakes and down shifitng a little early is usually what locks it up for me...keep your eyes on where you want to go and ez off the brake hold throttle or roll on a little..seems to work at least thats what i think i do...or maybe when it happens enough times it becomes more of a reflex to save it and you dont really think about itClick to expand...

   No shit Sherlock! Hey, if it is as you call it "a throttle skid" either you are backing it in off the gas and will soon get back on or you are sliding in on the gas and sure ain't gonna shut off. Either way, it is controlled, not the kind of situation wher the old saying is made for. That old addage is for when things start getting loopy - nail it!

   #26
7. P B G, Nov 7, 2011 #27

   P B G Long timer

   Joined: Mar 7, 2008 Oddometer: 10,004 Location: Greater Chicago

   If you are going so fast into a corner that you absolutely need to be on the brakes, you really need to get on the brakes and stand the bike up if required and just get rid of the speed. That's its own scenario called "Oh Fuck I'm going to hit the guard rail." Before a problem is that bad there is a situation where you're entering a corner "hot" but reasonably so. In this case the most prudent course of action is to stay the course, and if in doubt roll on a bit of gas through the corner. When people say these things they aren't saying to just crack the throttle all the way open, more that you are in the corner experiencing an issue and you should just slightly "roll" the throttle one. This has been clear through the years when Porsche's go off the road back asswards. Rear drive car, massive rear tires, entering a corner hot. Action A: Hit the brakes, weight shifts forwards off the massive rear tires, which lose traction and the weight of the engine/transaxle swing the car backwards off the road. Action B: Driver loads the suspension and throttles up slightly. Not enough to cause the tires to break free, but enough to cause a shift in the COM towards the massive rear tires and push the car through turn. Bikes work similarly, there is almost always more traction available if you subtly apply throttle, as the loaded rear tire will have more effective mass. This goes entirely out the window if you overdo the throttle and cause the tire to slip.

   #27
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8. Tripped1, Nov 8, 2011 #28

   Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

   Joined: Aug 6, 2009 Oddometer: 59,989 Location: Andalusia

   P B G said: ↑

   This goes entirely out the window if you overdo the throttle and cause the tire to slip.Click to expand...

   Not entirely, you can "steer with the rear" on a bike as well, its a very fine thing with a street bike and sticky rubber, Hunter S Thompson's sausage creature await if you screw it up in either direction (initiating or return), but its far from beyond the realm of reason. You nailed it though, a sport bike you have a around 40/60 split in tire surface (maybe more) between front and rear, ......arguments about what traction is aside....you want more weight on the rear wheel because one, you are more likely to get peak traction out of it, and two the bike is designed around heavy throttle application, if you aren't on the throttle the tail unloads and you reduce compliance from your rear shock, AND available traction. With the added bonus that the larger rear wheel provides more camber thrust (usually) do to a greater delta in working circumference between the inside and outside of the contact patch.

   #28
9. Truckin_Thumper, Nov 8, 2011 #29

   Truckin_Thumper low profile

   Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Oddometer: 29,548 Location: Denton,TX

   "When in doubt, throttle out" Means: Don't think the front wheel is up straight enough? Give it mo'gas Want to drift around a corner, gotta get that ass sliding, so pin it Dad! actually, the best way to learn how to use a throttle to gas out of a situation is to ride/operate a stand up jetski, or any impeller style craft. they only maneuver with throttle. Best learning I ever had.

   #29
10. LuciferMutt, Nov 8, 2011 #30

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

    Joined: Aug 19, 2008 Oddometer: 22,497 Location: New(er) Mexico

    Truckin_Thumper said: ↑

    actually, the best way to learn how to use a throttle to gas out of a situation is to ride/operate a stand up jetski, or any impeller style craft. they only maneuver with throttle. Best learning I ever had.Click to expand...

    Very good point. Those things flat out won't turn unless you're gassing it.

    #30
11. ricochetrider, Nov 8, 2011 #31

    ricochetrider MotoMojo

    Joined: Sep 5, 2011 Oddometer: 3,630 Location: Out There Somewhere

    throttling on works just like if you get in trouble on skis, simply point em down hill and ski out of it. i'm not expert enough to know the technicalities of the dynamics but i know from personal experience that adding gas or speed can sure save your butt at times. the point is well taken that you don't wanna over-do it, a little goes a long way. being in control enough to NOT slam it is key, it seems, more often than not.

    #31
12. Wop, Nov 8, 2011 #32

    Wop Been here awhile

    Joined: Aug 5, 2007 Oddometer: 110 Location: Brisbane

    Those are all valid points but I straight out read it different. "When I doubt throttle out" to me means when in doubt about the corner ie: can't see the apex you follow the old maxim "slow in fast out" (throttle out of the bend instead of into it) So when in doubt is not about what to do after you find your self in trouble but in doubt about the corner or conditions. Don't assume it will be the same as all the other 50kmh corners and come in at 90kmh. Go in at 70kmh and once you can see the apex pin your ears back, grin and throttle out. Also just adding to some of the other posts if you come in too hot both throttle on or off will increase the centrifical force and try to stand the bike up ('off' more so along with a variety of other undesireable affects). Once you commit to going around the corner instead of standing it up and braking hard, getting back to neutral throttle where you are neither accelerating or engine braking is how I undestand it. I have also read that pulling the clutch in will give you the best chance of keeping your weight and the bike down. I takes a bit of nerve to reach for the throttle or clutch instead of the brakes but I have found it works very well

    #32
13. BgDadddy, Nov 8, 2011 #33

    BgDadddy Long timer

    Joined: Sep 10, 2008 Oddometer: 3,722 Location: Nunya

    I always tell people (mainly riding in Florida's sugar sand), when it starts to get squirrelly, gas on it. It will either straighten the bike right out or it will make the crash that much more spectacular!

    #33
14. Tripped1, Nov 9, 2011 #34

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

    Joined: Aug 6, 2009 Oddometer: 59,989 Location: Andalusia

    Wop said: ↑

    Also just adding to some of the other posts if you come in too hot both throttle on or off will increase the centrifical force and try to stand the bike up ('off' more so along with a variety of other undesireable affects). Once you commit to going around the corner instead of standing it up and braking hard, getting back to neutral throttle where you are neither accelerating or engine braking is how I undestand it. I have also read that pulling the clutch in will give you the best chance of keeping your weight and the bike down. I takes a bit of nerve to reach for the throttle or clutch instead of the brakes but I have found it works very wellClick to expand...

    If you are too hot you still need to add throttle. Once you are past tip in if you are too hot for the available traction, you are going to biff it anyway, so you add throttle and lean (both) to balance the chassis and allow the tires and suspension to do their thing. ...and hope... Chop the throttle, you risk overloading the front end, pull the clutch and you ave have less control over the chassis AND you are overloading the front end. You increase throttle slightly once you are off the brakes anyway, because the tire is effectively smaller as you lean the bike over. That is "maintenance throttle" used to maintain speed and keep the wheels weighted right.

    #34
15. scarysharkface, Nov 9, 2011 #35

    scarysharkface Broke it/Bought it

    Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Oddometer: 15,066 Location: Indiana

    DAKEZ said: ↑

    Rolling on the throttle stabilizes the bike. Chopping off the throttle you are letting the inertia of the bike control you. Rolling on the throttle YOU are controlling the inertia. As already stated earlier there are many times when rolling off the throttle and attempting to slow or stop will end badly when all that needed to be done is look where you want to go and give it gas.Click to expand...

    Needs to be a poster, and a sticker over the speedometer of every bike.

    #35
16. Wop, Nov 9, 2011 #36

    Wop Been here awhile

    Joined: Aug 5, 2007 Oddometer: 110 Location: Brisbane

    chopping the throttle loads the front and unloads the rear mostly due to engine breaking. If you pull the clutch there is no engine break and all you do is remove the force that was being applied through acceleration. I agree with what your saying but I think we are talking about a slighty different situation. You said throttle and lean. You know that sickening feeling when you've been caught high on the bike and you are going to run wide. Its not because you don't have enough traction or even too much speed but your weight was not low enough entering the corner. it's a bit like trying to walk down the edge of the gutter and over balancing. You stand there with one leg out for a counter balance waving your arms waiting to correct the centre of gravity to regain your balance. In that situation which is where so many accidents happen that i refere to pulling the clutch. The bike acts like a big lever with the centrifical fore trying to stand the bike up and your weight and the angle of the bike fighting against that force. Power on and power off both add to the force trying to stand the bike up. What do you do when exiting a bend? wind the power on and let the extra speed and force stand the bike up for you. Finding a neutral throttle will also minimise that force trying to stand the bike but pulling the clutch is a lot easier when your arse is puckered so hard you have to recover your seat. I have seen a lot of newer riders run wide at speeds half what their bikes are capable of because their did not set up properley for the corner. Give it a try half through a sweeper, pull the clutch in and fell the bike drop in.

    #36

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