BMW C650 GT In 2021? - Adventure Rider

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Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by BUZZARD II, Oct 16, 2020.

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1. BUZZARD II, Oct 16, 2020 #1

   BUZZARD II Old Geezer Supporter

   Joined: Jun 4, 2007 Oddometer: 2,214 Location: No.VA

   On another forum there's a question if the big Beemer scooter will return to the US. Any thoughts, rumors or even hope? If the Forza 750 stays in Europe I would like a GT next spring.

   #1
2. Slow Bob, Oct 17, 2020 #2

   Slow Bob Slow going late bloomer

   Joined: Oct 12, 2020 Oddometer: 204 Location: Portsmouth, VA

   I would love to see it and it's a bit overdue for a face lift. But I'm not so optimistic that we will see it in the US. And I would love to see them bring the Forza here too.

   #2 ClearwaterBMW likes this.
3. ClearwaterBMW, Oct 17, 2020 #3

   ClearwaterBMW The Examiner Supporter

   Joined: Jul 17, 2005 Oddometer: 10,226 Location: Clearwater, FL USA

   Slow Bob said: ↑

   I would love to see it and it's a bit overdue for a face lift. But I'm not so optimistic that we will see it in the US. And I would love to see them bring the Forza here too.Click to expand...

   No more BMW scooters to the US for the foreseeable future That was announced recently very sad

   #3
4. byee, Oct 18, 2020 #4

   byee Long timer

   Joined: Sep 16, 2016 Oddometer: 2,968 Location: Vancouver, BC

   ClearwaterBMW said: ↑

   No more BMW scooters to the US for the foreseeable future That was announced recently very sadClick to expand...

   Was there an actual announcement by BMW Motorrad? Will you be able to post a link? Thanks and stay safe!

   #4 ClearwaterBMW likes this.
5. ClearwaterBMW, Oct 18, 2020 #5

   ClearwaterBMW The Examiner Supporter

   Joined: Jul 17, 2005 Oddometer: 10,226 Location: Clearwater, FL USA

   byee said: ↑

   Was there an actual announcement by BMW Motorrad? Will you be able to post a link? Thanks and stay safe!Click to expand...

   I will try to find it for you It was mentioned on this forum

   #5
6. Bueller, Oct 18, 2020 #6

   Bueller Cashin?

   Joined: Sep 25, 2003 Oddometer: 24,468 Location: Pisgah National Forest

   Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see that you are correct Greg. BMW really screwed the pooch with their scooter offerings here in the U.S. The 650 series was expensive to buy and just as expensive to pay a dealer to maintain, and the 400 launch was a disaster with recalls and stop sale orders that took way too long to remedy. They can’t blame their lackluster scooter sales numbers on the American public. I’ve owned a bunch of their motorcycles over the years but finally came to the conclusion that for me BMW stands for “beaten my will”. Loved riding them, hated owning them. For the OP, the C650 depreciation curve looks like the glide slope of a rock. There are some smokin’ deals on lightly used models out there, and if you insist on new I’m sure there is new old stock out there as well.

   #6 Blue&Yellow and ClearwaterBMW like this.
7. ClearwaterBMW, Oct 18, 2020 #7

   ClearwaterBMW The Examiner Supporter

   Joined: Jul 17, 2005 Oddometer: 10,226 Location: Clearwater, FL USA

   Bueller said: ↑

   Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see that you are correct Greg. BMW really screwed the pooch with their scooter offerings here in the U.S. The 650 series was expensive to buy and just as expensive to pay a dealer to maintain, and the 400 launch was a disaster with recalls and stop sale orders that took way too long to remedy. They can’t blame their lackluster scooter sales numbers on the American public. I’ve owned a bunch of their motorcycles over the years but finally came to the conclusion that for me BMW stands for “beaten my will”. Loved riding them, hated owning them. For the OP, the C650 depreciation curve looks like the glide slope of a rock. There are some smokin’ deals on lightly used models out there, and if you insist on new I’m sure there is new old stock out there as well.Click to expand...

   i've had 9 BMWs and i won't disagree with you loved riding them couldn't believe how much they cost to maintain (no... i never did the work myself) the new RT is intriguing (NOT buying a big bike again) the scooter situation has been odd i really don't understand ANY of their thinking love the IDEA of the 400... but, they NEVER put any effort into that scooter beyond the typically-cool BMW marketing campaign don't even get me started on the R18

   #7 Bueller likes this.
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8. Slow Bob, Oct 18, 2020 #8

   Slow Bob Slow going late bloomer

   Joined: Oct 12, 2020 Oddometer: 204 Location: Portsmouth, VA

   I haven't seen anything in the online media stating that they weren't going to import them anymore, I have heard folks talking about that happening, but nothing other than word of mouth. I've only had one other BMW besides the c650 and that was a hexhead R12RT. I found the maintenance on that bike pretty straightforward for routine items like oil and filter changes. I bought it used with all the maintenance records and it had about 28K on it. Besides having all the recalls done free of charge, there wasn't that much dealer work done and it wasn't terribly expensive. I sold it with about 5k more miles and serviced it myself with the exception of having it at the dealer for inspection and they found a vac leak causing a bit of rough idle. That was fixed for about 60 bucks. What stands out to me is that the bike aged very well and had more miles then many comparable brands. Not necessarily more miles than comparable BMW's, since they seem to all have that many or more miles. These bikes seem to be ridden quite a lot. Now I'm not sure how much I would have wanted to do with K bike, esp the 6 cylinder ones, but thats another story. The boxers have a following because of the longevity and ease of maintenance. I bought the C650 knowing that the dealer maintenance could be expensive but planning on doing most of it myself. Oil changes should be easy enough with a spin on filter and cleaning out the strainer. Belt replacement is at 12K miles. My Swing it was 16. For this bike you have to remove the right side tupperware and if you want to make it a bit easier, get the tool to lock the variator so you can remove the nut holding it together. The other wear item are the plastic rails in the swing arm. If you have slack then you move up to a B or C rail from the installed A rail. That should not be an issue till you get to about 12k miles, for me thats probably at 3 or 4 years. I think you are buying a very high level of tech with these bikes compared other makes. That can be good and bad. I thought about the C400x but in the end decided to go with the 650 since it is still built in Berlin even though the engine is sourced from Kymco. I've had a pretty good look over having the bike for the last month and I'm impressed with the quality of the machine. Once you start comparing any of the recent large scooter models, the cost of all of them are up there. Even my old Swing was priced at over 9K and that was back in 2009. So I didnt see this bike as that far out of line price wise and you do get options like the windshield, grips and seat that arent on other machines. Now if the new Forza 750 was up for sale I would have given that a good look as well.

   #8
9. Slow Bob, Oct 18, 2020 #9

   Slow Bob Slow going late bloomer

   Joined: Oct 12, 2020 Oddometer: 204 Location: Portsmouth, VA

   Bueller said: ↑

   For the OP, the C650 depreciation curve looks like the glide slope of a rock. There are some smokin’ deals on lightly used models out there, and if you insist on new I’m sure there is new old stock out there as well.Click to expand...

   Not really. Have you searched for any late model scoots lately? Very late model years are going for maybe 2-3K off new. 2016 C650GTs are going for about 6-7 depending on mileage but they are as rare as hens teeth. For that matter try and find a late model Burgman 650, they just arent out there. Covid has changed the market. Not many in the pipeline new and the used prices are pushed up. Hopefully will change once we are past the virus, but that probably wont be till next year. You want a bike now, you are going to pay for it.

   #9
10. Bueller, Oct 18, 2020 #10

    Bueller Cashin?

    Joined: Sep 25, 2003 Oddometer: 24,468 Location: Pisgah National Forest

    https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2016-BMW-C-650-GT-5009380396 https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2015-BMW-C-650-GT-5013804849 https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2013-BMW-C-650-GT-5014176822 Three easily found examples, varying in age and mileage. But there is not a one of them that doesn’t have a ton of life left in it. I can’t speak about Burgmans. I was only talking about the C650. if I was in the market and it wasn’t so far away, I’d offer $3000 for the $3499 listed ‘13 with 21000 miles in a heartbeat. A handful of years ago dealers were getting almost 10 grand for that bike.

    #10
11. Slow Bob, Oct 18, 2020 #11

    Slow Bob Slow going late bloomer

    Joined: Oct 12, 2020 Oddometer: 204 Location: Portsmouth, VA

    Bueller said: ↑

    https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2016-BMW-C-650-GT-5009380396 https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2015-BMW-C-650-GT-5013804849 https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2013-BMW-C-650-GT-5014176822 Three easily found examples, varying in age and mileage. But there is not a one of them that doesn’t have a ton of life left in it. I can’t speak about Burgmans. I was only talking about the C650. if I was in the market and it wasn’t so far away, I’d offer $3000 for the $3499 listed ‘13 with 21000 miles in a heartbeat. A handful of years ago dealers were getting almost 10 grand for that bike.Click to expand...

    Interesting the first two, were on my radar when I started looking. The first is within range of my location. I emailed the guy several times and he finally responded. Bike had really low mileage on it, but has been stored outside all its life under a tarp. And the guy wasnt going to take any more pictures. So this is actually his second ad and he dropped the price down from about 6800 when he relisted it several weeks ago. I didnt bother with it because a bike that has sat for 4 years under a tarp with very little miles on it is not something I want to deal with. Apparently I wasnt alone in that evaluation, its been listed for months now. With so few miles on it and being a 2016 with the factory topcase, it should have sold long ago. The second example has also been listed a very long time and the ad hasnt changed since I started looking a few months ago. Its at about 15K and I wonder if it got the belt changed. But its a 15 and most people are looking for 16 and up which is the facelift with new variator and some other improvements. Its at a non BMW dealer and I guess they can afford to hold on to it. Can't comment on the last bike, thats on the left coast and I would have looked at it if it were local. Highest mileage and oldest too. But I also scoured the listings and the newer ones with low mileage didnt tend to last for long. The dealers were selling out of the NOS bikes and were not budging too far of the msrp. Mine was a 2019 and I got it for about a grand off which I considered good. I was told by all the dealers I contacted near me (Adventure, Mortons, Bob's) that there weren't any in the warehouses and what dealers had was the last of them. Because of that, they were not coming too far if any off of list. Interesting aside, one dealer up in PA had a NOS Evolution on sale for 9995, which was listed new for about 14k. I considered that bike since I didnt plan on using it to tour any long distances and my daily rides never go longer than about 80 miles which was in its range. What killed it was that the local dealer Adventure in Chesapeake would not service it since they would have to send one of their techs for training at their cost. The closest would have been Bob's up in MD. It sold a short time after I got my 2019. I looked for newer Burgmans, but even the 2018 650's are long gone. I only found one Burgman 400 locally, it was a NOS that had been moved in from some other dealer and they didnt even bother to clean it up before they put it on the floor. When I called on it the sales guy said they would deal on it but the story changed when I got there. I think they were somewhere around 8k and no test drives unless you bought it. I walked away. So I stand by my original "Not Really". The good bikes are selling out and the ones with problems or higher mileage are sitting for whatever reason. And they are selling for some higher bucks. Supply and demand, and the supply is limited right now.

    #11
12. Bueller, Oct 18, 2020 #12

    Bueller Cashin?

    Joined: Sep 25, 2003 Oddometer: 24,468 Location: Pisgah National Forest

    Sounds like you’ve acquiesced to the false sense of urgency some in the vehicle industry have managed to create over Covid. It’s predominately false. I worked in the car and motorcycle business for 29 years and still follow industry trending quite closely, as I have many friends still in the business. One of those friends owns one of the largest multiline dealers in the country and talks to me about his sales data often. The used motorcycle market was absolutely flooded and pricing was severely depressed. People couldn’t give used bikes and scooters away. This persisted into June, because Covid lockdowns killed the normal spring demand. Now only four months later there’s a supply issue? Please . The only areas where demand really has changed that significantly are in heavy duty pickups and RV’s, in direct response to Covid, air travel and hotel issues. Supplies of new inventory in some areas of the powersports business have diminished (such as side by side UTV's and their more sporty equivalents), but the vast majority of the scooter market - especially used - is unaffected. As for the ads, yes, used bikes may sit under tarps. They may sit outside without tarps. They may get ridden a lot or a little. Sellers may be responsive or not, and may be cranky or not. All part of the "experience", and the reason they are so much cheaper. For those who don't want that, the new ones can still be found. The buyer can expect the dealer to ask for all of the money and create urgency in all of the ways they have always tried to do exactly those things. There's no right or wrong. It's all in what someone wants to pay. But to believe that Covid has suddenly made a C650 suddenly worth a bunch more money is both silly and untrue.

    #12
13. Blue&Yellow, Oct 18, 2020 #13

    Blue&Yellow but orange inside...

    Joined: Jan 31, 2010 Oddometer: 1,455 Location: Planet X

    The whole setup with BMW Motorrad, their dealers and scooters is weird. BMW wants to be a high-end boutique brand these days, they don't like mingling with other brands. So they have their own showroom, their premium motorcycles, their own clothes and their BMW/Schubert helmets, GPS systems and so forth. You're supposed to be able to walk in there and walk out with everything except money. And it feels like someone at BMW headquarters thought they needed a bunch of scooters in their line-up, not a bad idea. And they are fine scooters, for the most part. But I've never actually gotten the impression that their dealers are that keen on stocking or selling any of them. And if they have one or two in stock they're always treated as the poor cousins of the brand. The overly complicated R1250GS is typically front and center in the showroom, or the $24k K1600GT, or the R9 boxer or the 1000RR. If they do have a C650GT it's a safe bet it's covered in dust and stuffed somewhere along the back wall with a drained battery. At least that's been my experience. If you go and look at a T-Max Yamaha are proud of it and tell you how cool it is and how good the chassis is and how many they've sold in France etc. If you go to Honda they tell you about the technology on the X-Adv and their heritage with the Super Cub etc. But go to BMW and you get the impression they'd rather not be bothered about the C650 in the back.

    #13 lucky6600, BUZZARD II, Super Dirt Dud and 1 other person like this.
14. FreewheelBurning, Oct 20, 2020 #14

    FreewheelBurning Been here awhile

    Joined: Jan 27, 2019 Oddometer: 188 Location: Norway

    The c650 (Sport/GT) is old and outdated. Put in some led ligths! Give it cruise control. Add keyless like all the modern smaller scooterse have. Possibly add a screen to it too. This would make it the top scooter, surpassing the closest rivals like tmax, burgman and now the new forza 750.

    #14
15. BUZZARD II, Oct 20, 2020 #15

    BUZZARD II Old Geezer Supporter

    Joined: Jun 4, 2007 Oddometer: 2,214 Location: No.VA

    It already gets test reports as the top maxi scooter due to handling, power etc. But yes adding cruise, a big integrated tft and such would be great. But none of that helps if it's excluded from the USA. Of course maybe we deserve it. Scooters are not high on the American wish list. As a geezer with arthritic everything, I want to keep touring in relative comfort. My Harley is comfortable but the weight and clutch is bringing those days to a close. I've liked the scooters I've had. Now is time for a big one for big trips.

    #15 ClearwaterBMW and Bueller like this.
16. ClearwaterBMW, Oct 20, 2020 #16

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner Supporter

    Joined: Jul 17, 2005 Oddometer: 10,226 Location: Clearwater, FL USA

    BUZZARD II said: ↑

    It already gets test reports as the top maxi scooter due to handling, power etc. But yes adding cruise, a big integrated tft and such would be great. But none of that helps if it's excluded from the USA. Of course maybe we deserve it. Scooters are not high on the American wish list. As a geezer with arthritic everything, I want to keep touring in relative comfort. My Harley is comfortable but the weight and clutch is bringing those days to a close. I've liked the scooters I've had. Now is time for a big one for big trips.Click to expand...

    please add electronic adjustable windscreen to that of course the TECH MAX version of the Yamaha TMAX 560... Sells for $15,000 in Europe and no one can keep them in stock that BMW that has all those things will cost that much as well I don't know how many people will be convinced to spend $15,000 on a scooter especially one with 1/3 as much horsepower as a Gold Wing with automatic transmission for 2/3rds of the price of course it would only be 2/3rds of the weight and they'd have to put a little bit more thought into it as a company because the evidence surely suggests they have not with the C400x

    #16
17. BUZZARD II, Oct 20, 2020 #17

    BUZZARD II Old Geezer Supporter

    Joined: Jun 4, 2007 Oddometer: 2,214 Location: No.VA

    I did a test ride on the DCT Wing as soon as it came out. What a wonderful bike. But, as soon as I lifted it off the kick stand I remembered why I sold my '01 Wing. It was heavy even with the diet it was on. What stopped me was knowing the right knee couldn't take the weight my left did. I've tossed the C 650 GT around and that is workable. To your point of the electric windshield my two up ride is the Can Am. Normally the windshield is set to the lowest position. Bit whoa is it nice in November rains to push that button up. And in February.... I'm spoiled. I'll pay what Beemer wants.

    #17 ClearwaterBMW likes this.
18. ClearwaterBMW, Oct 20, 2020 #18

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner Supporter

    Joined: Jul 17, 2005 Oddometer: 10,226 Location: Clearwater, FL USA

    BUZZARD II said: ↑

    I did a test ride on the DCT Wing as soon as it came out. What a wonderful bike. But, as soon as I lifted it off the kick stand I remembered why I sold my '01 Wing. It was heavy even with the diet it was on. What stopped me was knowing the right knee couldn't take the weight my left did. I've tossed the C 650 GT around and that is workable. To your point of the electric windshield my two up ride is the Can Am. Normally the windshield is set to the lowest position. Bit whoa is it nice in November rains to push that button up. And in February.... I'm spoiled. I'll pay what Beemer wants.Click to expand...

    I agree with you at least with the Honda you have forward and reverse... A real one not like the one BMW gives you tied to the starter motor... Technology from the 1960s I don't suppose we will ever see that 650 GT in the United States but if it comes here it needs cruise control and a way to adjust that screen... That's what will make it a true tourer for me it's shocking to me that Kymco has the amazing AK550 but you still need tools to adjust the windscreen like on my Yamaha XMAX... So very odd in 2020 for the Kymco which is almost twice the cost of the Yamaha

    #18
19. FreewheelBurning, Oct 20, 2020 #19

    FreewheelBurning Been here awhile

    Joined: Jan 27, 2019 Oddometer: 188 Location: Norway

    Doesn't the c650gt have electronically adjustable wind screen? You may compare with a gold wing, but a scooter no matter how big (?) should work well in busy city streets as well as twisty country roads and highways (maxi scooters at least). But a goldeing would never be as versatile?

    #19 ClearwaterBMW likes this.
20. BUZZARD II, Oct 20, 2020 #20

    BUZZARD II Old Geezer Supporter

    Joined: Jun 4, 2007 Oddometer: 2,214 Location: No.VA

    Yes the Beemer has a power windshield, don't know about the Forza yet. They all need cruise to be real highway flyers. But none of this matters if they are kept offshore.

    #20

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