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  1. #1
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    JedKent is offline WHT Addict Join Date Apr 2002 Posts 150

    <br /> tag alternatives?

    I'm sure most of you are already aware of this, but Firefox and Internet Explorer handle <br /> tags differently. IE will make it seem as if there is more space than there really is, and Firefox will make it seem like there is less. I'm not sure which browser handles them correctly, but regardless... I need to be able to make the spaces in my design be consistent in both Firefox and Internet Explorer. I was hoping someone could inform me on how to go about doing this? ...I was thinking maybe like a 1x1 transparent .gif or whatnot, but something tells me that's not really the correct way to go about it. Please help me out - it's kind of important. -Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    RMF is offline Web Hosting Master Join Date Sep 2002 Posts 1,056
    Could create a spacer table.
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  3. #3
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    vigo is offline Newbie Join Date May 2004 Location Sheffield, UK Posts 24
    Use padding or margin in your CSS. But why is it so important for your design to come out exactly the same in MSIE and FF (which will never happen anyway)?
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  4. #4
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    BigBison is offline rogue element Join Date Jun 2004 Location Northwest Colorado Posts 4,636
    Vigo's right; it'll never happen. As to which browser is "correct", the answer is both. The amount of whitespace to use for a line break isn't part of any standard. You will find this is not only different between browsers, but also for the same browser on different platforms, or even on the same platform depending on font settings, both in the browser and the OS. If you're relying on line break spacing to make a design work, I hate to break it to you, but you may need to re-evaluate your design. It's hard to say as you haven't provided a link, but I don't think a spacer .gif is your answer either.
    Eric J. Bowman, principal Bison Systems Corporation coming soon: a new sig! I'm just a poor, unfrozen caveman Webmaster. Your new 'standards' frighten, and confuse me...
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  5. #5
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    JedKent is offline WHT Addict Join Date Apr 2002 Posts 150
    Well, I do well at designing layouts, but my coding is a bit rusty (I hate doing it). But, anyway... my design looks completely identical in both IE and Firefox, all except for the spacing between text and whatnot... which is why I was trying to find some alternatives to the <br /> tag. I'd like to think that making a layout look the same in both browsers is possible. I am already practically there (except for this issue with the text, obviously). I mean, the difference in spacing between my text is not going to make or break my layout, but, I am a perfectionist, and I want things to look perfect in both browsers. I know there has to be a way to accomplish this... as some other sites already have.
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  6. #6
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    the_pm is offline Retired Moderator Join Date May 2004 Location Pflugerville, TX Posts 11,231
    br { height:10px } But if you're using more than one in a row, you're using them incorrectly anyway. Ths means you need to wrap whatever it is you're specing apart into separate containers, and apply margins or padding, as suggested by Vigo and confirmed by BigBison.
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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  7. #7
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    joe2kiss is offline Junior Guru Wannabe Join Date Feb 2004 Location S.Wales Posts 97
    What are you using <br /> to put a space between? I find using a mixture of <p>, padding and margin enough to space objects how I want them.
    Joe2Torials - HTML, CSS & Much More...... Weborum
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  8. #8
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    sephira is offline Junior Guru Wannabe Join Date Mar 2002 Posts 36
    I sent you an e-mail with some additional possible solutions.
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  9. #9
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    RMF is offline Web Hosting Master Join Date Sep 2002 Posts 1,056
    Like I said, with tables. Sometimes if I want a space, but not as big as a br tag, I'll use a table. I create a table with one cell, no cellpadding/spacing, then make the td with a width of "1", or whatever I want the space to be. You wouldn't want to use this a lot, because there would be a lot of code, but sometimes its a nice to thing to do.
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  10. #10
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    the_pm is offline Retired Moderator Join Date May 2004 Location Pflugerville, TX Posts 11,231
    Originally posted by RMF Like I said, with tables. Sometimes if I want a space, but not as big as a br tag, I'll use a table. I create a table with one cell, no cellpadding/spacing, then make the td with a width of "1", or whatever I want the space to be. You wouldn't want to use this a lot, because there would be a lot of code, but sometimes its a nice to thing to do.
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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  11. #11
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    Zopester is offline Web Hosting Master Join Date Jan 2003 Location Houston, TX - Originally from UK Posts 707
    Quote Originally Posted by RMF Sometimes if I want a space, but not as big as a br tag, I'll use a table. I create a table with one cell, no cellpadding/spacing, then make the td with a width of "1", or whatever I want the space to be. May I ask why you'd promote a solution in 2004 that is reminiscent of web design from 1997? CSS padding and margins are supported in every browser that matters, therefore your technique is obsolete and unwieldy. This isn't a personal attack, this is a genuine question about old-school design methodology.
    Kinkamono Internet Services - The Internet. Done Right. Dive In...
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  12. #12
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    RMF is offline Web Hosting Master Join Date Sep 2002 Posts 1,056
    Its just another way to do it. Thats what he asked for.
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  13. #13
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    the_pm is offline Retired Moderator Join Date May 2004 Location Pflugerville, TX Posts 11,231
    Sort of like an alternative to going to the hospital for a vasectomy would be to remove your testicles with a rusty spoon. Yeah, you'll get the desired effect, but I still wouldn't suggest it to someone!
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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  14. #14
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    BigBison is offline rogue element Join Date Jun 2004 Location Northwest Colorado Posts 4,636
    Nice image! Do you talk to your fianceé with that mouth? J/K! Congratulations, btw!
    Eric J. Bowman, principal Bison Systems Corporation coming soon: a new sig! I'm just a poor, unfrozen caveman Webmaster. Your new 'standards' frighten, and confuse me...
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  15. #15
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    RMF is offline Web Hosting Master Join Date Sep 2002 Posts 1,056
    It's not that bad.
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  16. #16
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    Website Rob is offline learning is in the doing Join Date Sep 2000 Location Alberta, Canada Posts 3,146
    Is the discussion about "spacing" or "line height"? Each one is different than the other and using the term "spaces" with the BR tag, the two do not fit. If you are looking for consistency with your "line height" whenever a BR tag is used, then declare one in your CSS. line-height: 24px &nbsp;-or-&nbsp; line-height: 124% I prefer percentages myself, makes it easier to work with any Browser whilst keeping the overall "look" consistent.
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  17. #17
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    Mx-James is offline New Member Join Date Dec 2004 Posts 3
    Yea use CSS to do it.
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  18. #18
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    JedKent is offline WHT Addict Join Date Apr 2002 Posts 150
    Thanks for the help. -Adding style="margin-bottom:15px" to the images I wanted the spaces underneath was much easier than fiddling around with the <br /> crap. Appreciate it!
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  19. #19
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    JedKent is offline WHT Addict Join Date Apr 2002 Posts 150
    Sorry for the double post, but, I actually have another issue: I tried putting the br{height:5px} in my CSS, but it did absolutely nothing. I even changed the px value to see if it was just too low, but, that wasn't the case, either, so... are you sure this is exactly how I input it into the CSS file? -Also, someone was telling me you could do something like: <br style="height:5px" /> ... so I tried it ... and nothing. ...why didn't this work, either? I'm sorry if any of my questions seem stupid, but, I am simply trying to learn how to go about accomplishing these things, so... if you are a really great coder or whatnot, I would appreciate if it you could just help me out, and not make cracks at my poor coding knowledge/etc. -I am looking for some serious/helpful responses here. Thank you.
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  20. #20
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    Website Rob is offline learning is in the doing Join Date Sep 2000 Location Alberta, Canada Posts 3,146
    line-height: 24px -or- line-height: 124% See the difference between your code syntax and the example? height:5px - incorrect &nbsp;&nbsp; line-height: 5px - correct
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  21. #21
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    JedKent is offline WHT Addict Join Date Apr 2002 Posts 150
    Okay, so I add the line-height to the CSS exampe I gave... or to the <br /> tag example? Or both? If CSS, just to clarify... it would be br{line-height:5px}, right? ...and if it is for the <br /> tag, it would be <br style="line-height:5px" />, correct? Just want to make sure. -Thanks.
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  22. #22
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    Website Rob is offline learning is in the doing Join Date Sep 2000 Location Alberta, Canada Posts 3,146
    You are correct. CSS is specific to the HTML it is attached to. (confused yet? ) For site-wide application then in your CSS you would have: br { &nbsp; line-height: 5px; } Then, everytime you use the <br /> tag the line-height is automatically applied. If you only want to use it in specific situations on a Web page, then you would use: <br style="line-height:5px" /> &nbsp; or <span style="line-height:5px"><br /></span> Personally, and whenvever possible, I like to put as much CSS into the CSS file rather than within a Web page.
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  23. #23
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    JedKent is offline WHT Addict Join Date Apr 2002 Posts 150
    Thanks a lot for the quick and helpful responses. -This information will help greatly.
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  24. #24
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    Website Rob is offline learning is in the doing Join Date Sep 2000 Location Alberta, Canada Posts 3,146
    Your welcome.
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  25. #25
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    JedKent is offline WHT Addict Join Date Apr 2002 Posts 150
    /sigh, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but... ...I have put that into the CSS file, and still nothing is happening. -Also, if I put it into the style of the BR tag, nothing happens, either. What's going on? I'm doing it just as you said...
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