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 | XBimmers.com | BMW X6 Forum X5 Forum > BMW X5 Forums > General BMW X5 (E70) and X5M Forum (2006-2013) |  Breakdown:X5M CCV system & dual catchcan plans | |
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| 04-04-2016, 12:54 AM | #1 |
Travis1807 Private First Class    112Rep 184Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0) | Breakdown:X5M CCV system & dual catchcan plans Not having had a BMW before my current 2013 X5M I’m not to familiar with their CCV system or PCV valves. Historically PCV valves have always had high failure rates or just plain won’t work the way they are designed to in forced induction applications. Our CCV system in particular has remained especially elusive to me. So recently I experienced a boost leak that forced me to replace a few CCV pipes as well as the intake air duct on the engines 1-4 side and decided to do some digging around. I took the old pieces that I had to replace apart to get a better look at our PCV valves as well as taking a closer look at the CCV connection point on the intake air duct. I had originally planned on replacing the entire set up with SS hose, –AN fittings and aftermarket check valves but after examining our system I’m actually kind of impressed with our PCV valves. It’s the first “flapper” design I have seen as large as it is and in theory looks like it will work quite well. It’s crazy to think that BMW succeeded on the PCV design where most fail and then dropped the ball on something as simple as not using hard plastic lines to plumb the CCV system. I also think the size of the piping used was perfect. Normally the largest piping used is -8AN. Now after I looked at the intake just past the hole where the CCV system connects it didn’t appear that at 33,000 miles there was that much oil vapor from blow-by getting back into the system. I plan to do away with the connecting pipe and add a catch can on each side with -12AN fittings. I believe the dual catch can system will still serve a purpose and will help with keeping a clean intake system. The new version of our S63 engines the S63tu has a built in catchcan on the CCV system. If the improved version of our engine is coming from the factory with a catchcan I think it makes good sense to install one (or 2) on any S63. Below I have some diagrams of our system and then the pieces that I took apart. I also have some pictures of a M5 with a dual catchcan setup from ASR that I really like, it’s flawless in my opinion . The M5 is using the same hard plastic pipes as us for a portion of the syslem but doesn’t have the same connection points. There are also some pictures of the custom fabricated connection points to connect our current piping to the –AN fittings that ASR uses. If anyone wants to see pictures of the new S63tu engine and its "oil mist blow-by catcher thing" (aka catchcan) just let me know. I didn't want to post them here and start confusing people. Attached Images          __________________ 2016 X5M JB4, DME Tune, Full Custom Fab Worx Exhaust w/ Straight Pipes and Cutouts, KW V3, 22" BC Forged Wheels, Brembo BBK on all 4 corners |
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| 04-04-2016, 03:09 PM | #2 |
m5 guy Brigadier General   1799Rep 3,213Posts Drives: 2020 M5 Comp Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hawaii iTrader: (14) | Subscribed. That's a nice looking kit there on the M5. I like how you are not afraid of going custom. The perks of having quality fab shops close by. Do you plan on incorporating the catch cans into your new intakes like the M5 above? Keep it up!  __________________ 2020 F90 M5 Comp Oxford Green Metallic II-Aragon JOURNAL 2016 F10 M5 Space Gray-Black SOLD 2012 E70 X5M Monte Carlo Blue-Silverstone SOLD 2001 E46 M3 Oxford Green Metallic II-Cinnamon SOLD |
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| 04-04-2016, 03:25 PM | #3 |
m5james Colonel   436Rep 2,062Posts Drives: '10 X5M Alpine White on Sakhir Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Marysville, WA iTrader: (0) | I need this in ///My life because I need to replace mine as well. The pipes in the bottom picture I've replaced already, but the pipes in the upper picture need to be replaced now as well. I was also thinking of doing something like silicone on #3 from the upper picture, but your idea sounds like it'll ultimately last longer. I've had random reduced power warnings and the smell of oil burning pretty much since I've gotten my X5M, even after replacing some of those lines and a new vacuum pump. Have you thought about replacing ALL the vacuum lines with something silicone as well? After watching videos of people testing boost leaks on 335's, it seems like all this cheap rubber is a bad idea. Even after a stage 2 tune I'm still not getting over 17psi. I'm familiar with all the X5M pics, so I can tell the differences where you switched from X5M to M5 pics. I'm curious if you've got plans to incorporate this into the custom intake you just had made because it's going to affect my overall plans of replacing ask the remaining plastic lines, getting an intake made like yours and if doing a catch can setup needs to be worked into it for they long term fix. __________________ '10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - JB4 w/ HCP Stage 2 BEF, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS tubing & BMC filters, gutted cats, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2" '98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's '97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch & L/W flywheel, Z4///M 18's Last edited by m5james; 04-04-2016 at 03:30 PM.. |
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| 04-04-2016, 04:15 PM | #4 |
| Travis1807 Private First Class 112Rep 184Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0) | Quote: Originally Posted by m5james  I need this in ///My life because I need to replace mine as well. The pipes in the bottom picture I've replaced already, but the pipes in the upper picture need to be replaced now as well. I was also thinking of doing something like silicone on #3 from the upper picture, but your idea sounds like it'll ultimately last longer. I've had random reduced power warnings and the smell of oil burning pretty much since I've gotten my X5M, even after replacing some of those lines and a new vacuum pump. Have you thought about replacing ALL the vacuum lines with something silicone as well? After watching videos of people testing boost leaks on 335's, it seems like all this cheap rubber is a bad idea. Even after a stage 2 tune I'm still not getting over 17psi. I'm familiar with all the X5M pics, so I can tell the differences where you switched from X5M to M5 pics. I'm curious if you've got plans to incorporate this into the custom intake you just had made because it's going to affect my overall plans of replacing ask the remaining plastic lines, getting an intake made like yours and if doing a catch can setup needs to be worked into it for they long term fix. | I am planning on having -AN fittings welded onto my intake like the pictures above. I however need to do some more research. Our CCV system is different then the M5's pictured above. The guys who re-plumbed the CCV system for the M5 where able to keep all the stock connections in place where the CCV system connects to the engine. On our set up we have 1 extra point on each side of the engine to worry about. So on the 1-4 side we have the exit point on the engine (the one that sits low on the engine) that runs up to the connection pipe (connects 1-4 side to 5-8 side via a pipe running above turbos) and then the connecting pipe runs into that 3 to 1 plastic fitting. From there everything pushes pass the PCV valve and ultimately into the intake air duct on the 5-8 side. The 1-4 side then has a upper exit point that runs into a PCV valve and then into the air intake duct on that same side. The same thing happens on the 5-8 side but instead of the lower exit point on the engine running to a connecting point both the high and low engine points run into that 3 to 1 plastic fitting. So ultimately i think it would be wise to plumb both sides the same with the upper and lower exit points on the engine running to a 2 to 1 "Y" fitting that feeds into the catchcan and then the catch can runs into the PCV valve that feeds into the intake air duct. This will eliminate the connection pipe and hopefully help on freeing up the system to flow better so you don't have 3 lines feeding into 1. I would advise running -12AN fittings for your catch can and I will most likely scrap all of BMW's stock setup with the exception being the connections on the engine and intake air duct. These can have the stock pipe cut off with a razor. They are shaped like hose barbs so a hose clamp is all you should need to hold a press fitted line on. I might end up replacing the connection points on the engine with -AN fittings if I can get to them to drill them out and tap them. I will post pictures for you later of the catch can setup's I will be using. I haven't seen anything else like them around and have used them in the past with great success. __________________ 2016 X5M JB4, DME Tune, Full Custom Fab Worx Exhaust w/ Straight Pipes and Cutouts, KW V3, 22" BC Forged Wheels, Brembo BBK on all 4 corners |
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| 04-05-2016, 01:07 AM | #5 |
| m5james Colonel 436Rep 2,062Posts Drives: '10 X5M Alpine White on Sakhir Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Marysville, WA iTrader: (0) | I'm in, so the sooner the better  My Harley F150 had a PCV issue as well that would coat and eventually clog the air-to-water intercooler between the V of the engine, so with no desire to remove the supercharger and intercooler for repeated cleanings, I bought an aftermarket PCV system that ran a one-way canister that was drilled and threaded into the oil filler cap so it drained back into the engine vs needed a catch can. __________________ '10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - JB4 w/ HCP Stage 2 BEF, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS tubing & BMC filters, gutted cats, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2" '98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's '97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch & L/W flywheel, Z4///M 18's Last edited by m5james; 04-05-2016 at 03:58 PM.. |
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| 04-05-2016, 03:19 AM | #6 |
| Travis1807 Private First Class 112Rep 184Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0) | Quote: | Originally Posted by m5james I'm in, so the sooner the better My Harley F150 had a PCV issue as well that would coat and eventually clog the air-to-water intercooler between the V of the engine, so with no desire to remove the supercharger and intercooler for repeated cleanings, I bought an aftermarket PCV system that ran a one-way canister that was drilled and threaded into the oil filler cap so it drained back into the engine vs needed a catch can. | I'll look at ordering some -AN fittings and tubing today. I will try to get the -AN bungs welded on this week as well. I just need to figure out if I can reach the connection points on the bottom of the engine and how much of the stock piping and plastic fittings I'm going to replace. Here are some pics of the catch can i will be using. I still need to get another one. Attached Images     __________________ 2016 X5M JB4, DME Tune, Full Custom Fab Worx Exhaust w/ Straight Pipes and Cutouts, KW V3, 22" BC Forged Wheels, Brembo BBK on all 4 corners |
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| 04-05-2016, 01:24 PM | #7 |
frankenm First Lieutenant   99Rep 397Posts Drives: 12' X5M, 99 M3 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0) | Where is the catch can on the S63tu located? __________________ 2012 X5M - M5 S63TU Turbos/Manifolds, Custom Exhaust, Intake, JB4/BCM, OEM race stripes 1999 323 - M3 Clone - Hardtop - S50 Cams, S52, 3.23 LSD, Koni Sport, 18' E46 M3 Wheels  |
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| 04-05-2016, 02:54 PM | #8 |
| allmotor_2000 F10 1/4 WR: 9.9s / 142.5mph 1/2 WR: 175.5mph 1099Rep 1,967Posts Drives: 2018 RS3, 991 Turbo Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Westlake Village, CA iTrader: (0) | Nice work - looks like you made an adaptor at the turbo inlets. Any power gains from this? Will you sell just those inlets and the fitting into the PCV? |
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| 04-08-2016, 07:47 PM | #9 |
| Travis1807 Private First Class 112Rep 184Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0) | Quote: | Originally Posted by frankenm Where is the catch can on the S63tu located? | I will post a full break down of the S63tu engine with their oil separator/catch can tonight. It really is an ingenious system that in my opinion is something that all of us should be running on our forced induction engines. It appears to be built into the engine so its not a simple add on. It looks like we will just have to wait for our next vehicle to have a S63tu engine __________________ 2016 X5M JB4, DME Tune, Full Custom Fab Worx Exhaust w/ Straight Pipes and Cutouts, KW V3, 22" BC Forged Wheels, Brembo BBK on all 4 corners |
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| 04-09-2016, 02:51 PM | #10 |
mirob Colonel  3992Rep 2,013Posts Drives: M3CX Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Bomb City, TX iTrader: (0) | Is there a catch can per bank?...or just one for both banks? |
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| 04-09-2016, 08:10 PM | #11 |
protecon *May contain nuts   195Rep 286Posts Drives: 2010 X5M MCB Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Downunder iTrader: (1) | Audi have quite a nice setup for the high-revving RS4 motor (BNS). Quote: | Function of fine oil separator Blow-by gas volume is dependent on engine load and RPM. The fine oil ("oil spray") is separated by means of a cyclone separator. Cyclone separators only have a high separation efficiency over a small volumetric range. For this reason, one, two or three cyclones of the fine oil separator operate in parallel depending on the gas flow rate. The cyclones are released by the control piston. The displacement of the control piston against its spring force is dependent on the gas flow rate. Piston ring flutter at very high engine RPM and low engine load can result in a very high gas flow rate. The crankcase internal pressure is set by the two stage pressure control valve. The bypass valve together with the control piston ensures that the cyclones operate at the optimum operating point (if the volumetric flow rate is too high or too low, this will impair the functioning of the cyclones). When the bypass valve opens, a fraction of the blow-by gas flows to the engine untreated, but the remainder is optimally treated by the cyclones. The separated oil is collected in an oil reservoir beneath the cyclones. The oil cannot drain out of the reservoir until the oil drain valve is opened. The oil drain valve is closed as long as the pressure in the crankcase, i.e. below the valves, is higher than in the oil separator. The valve opens automatically due to gravity only at very low engine RPM or when the engine is at a standstill, because the pressure conditions above and below the valve are in equilibrium. The crankcase ventilation system also includes the crankcase breather. Air is extracted downstream of the air filter and flows through a non-return valve into the crankcase from above. The non-return valve is located at the end of the vent line and is bolted between the two cylinder banks in the engine block. A damping chamber is located below the non-return valve in the engine block. This prevents non-return valve flutter and eliminates noise. A restrictor bore connects this chamber to the inner chamber of the crankcase. It has the task of supplying only a defined volume of fresh air to the crankcase. |  |
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| 04-11-2016, 08:27 PM | #12 |
| m5james Colonel 436Rep 2,062Posts Drives: '10 X5M Alpine White on Sakhir Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Marysville, WA iTrader: (0) | Quote: | Originally Posted by Travis1807 I will post a full break down of the S63tu engine with their oil separator/catch can tonight. It really is an ingenious system that in my opinion is something that all of us should be running on our forced induction engines. It appears to be built into the engine so its not a simple add on. It looks like we will just have to wait for our next vehicle to have a S63tu engine | Bump :-) |
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| 04-27-2016, 08:56 AM | #13 |
| Travis1807 Private First Class 112Rep 184Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0) | Sorry, I know its been to long since I updated this. At any rate here is what I promised. Let me know if you have questions and I will do my best to answer them. In my opinion the design that BMW has implemented concerning the CCV system for the S63tu update is far more advanced then what we are running in our S63. I strongly believe we should be running a dual catch can setup and I'm currently in the works of replacing the entire system. I will update you with more when I have it. Brief Description of the S63tu CCV system and its operation The cylinder head cover is a new design with integrated crankcase ventilation and line routing. The operating principle of the CCV is from the N63 engine. A separate line from the CCV sys. to the air intake sys. is not used on the S63tu engine. Separate bore holes for the individual intake ports are integrated in the cylinder head. Every bank has its own crankcase ventilation ducts. The camshaft sensors are positioned on the front of the cylinder head cover. To separate the oil in the blow-by gas (this is what a catch can sys. is looking to achieve), a labyrinth oil separator is used. A pre-separator and a impact plate with small air vents are aligned in the flow direction. The oil drops are separated at these barriers and return to the cylinder head via the return line. an impact surface with an upstream filter ensures further separation of oil particles. The oil return is equipped with a non-return valve (PCV Valve) in order to prevent direct intake of blow-by gases without separation. if the oil level increases in this pipe, the non-return valve opens and the oil drops onto the cylinder head. Finally, the cleaned blow-by gasses are re-fed into the intake system depending on the operating condition of the engine via the non-return valve or via the volume control valve. Attached Images        __________________ 2016 X5M JB4, DME Tune, Full Custom Fab Worx Exhaust w/ Straight Pipes and Cutouts, KW V3, 22" BC Forged Wheels, Brembo BBK on all 4 corners |
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| 04-27-2016, 11:41 PM | #14 |
| m5james Colonel 436Rep 2,062Posts Drives: '10 X5M Alpine White on Sakhir Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Marysville, WA iTrader: (0) | Mind blown...I'm just here to see a parts list and how to :-) |
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| 06-23-2016, 11:24 PM | #15 |
| m5james Colonel 436Rep 2,062Posts Drives: '10 X5M Alpine White on Sakhir Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Marysville, WA iTrader: (0) | Quote: | Originally Posted by allmotor_2000 Nice work - looks like you made an adaptor at the turbo inlets. Any power gains from this? Will you sell just those inlets and the fitting into the PCV? | The last 4 pics are of the ASR kit, not Travis' setup. __________________ '10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - JB4 w/ HCP Stage 2 BEF, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS tubing & BMC filters, gutted cats, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2" '98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's '97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch & L/W flywheel, Z4///M 18's Last edited by m5james; 06-24-2016 at 07:30 PM.. |
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| 06-23-2016, 11:29 PM | #16 |
| m5james Colonel 436Rep 2,062Posts Drives: '10 X5M Alpine White on Sakhir Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Marysville, WA iTrader: (0) | As an update to this thread, I've bought Travis' intake system and the CCV he'd started to create. I've got lots of tubing, -AN fittings, one catch can (he mentioned two would be best on the S63, I can't speak for the S63TU) and some rough drawings. Travis can't be reached for a while (long story), so I'll be piecing it together myself. __________________ '10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - JB4 w/ HCP Stage 2 BEF, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS tubing & BMC filters, gutted cats, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2" '98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's '97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch & L/W flywheel, Z4///M 18's |
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| 06-24-2016, 12:26 PM | #17 |
Jax_415 Private  13Rep 97Posts Drives: 2013 X5M Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Cali iTrader: (1) | Nice... New to the E70 X5M. But not new to BMW I have a 04 M3. Hope to see how things works out |
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| 08-21-2017, 05:31 PM | #18 |
| Audiophilepaul New Member 2Rep 10Posts Drives: 2011 X5m Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Minneapolis iTrader: (0) | James, where are you at with this? |
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| 08-22-2017, 12:37 AM | #19 |
| m5james Colonel 436Rep 2,062Posts Drives: '10 X5M Alpine White on Sakhir Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Marysville, WA iTrader: (0) | Sadly I haven't touched it :-/ I've put one on my GF's 535xiT but it was much simpler and I wanted to get it done right after a walnut blasting. I plan on doing this at the same time I install my meth setup. I've been preoccupied with doing some summertime remodeling outside while maintaining everyone elses cars but my own. The X5M is my daily driver and has been quite reliable, so I've been getting the GF's car, my backup 328ci and my mom's 330ci whenever shr brings it over. Don't worry, the catch can setup, aftermarket downpipes, meth setup and a 55 gallon drum of methanol are daily reminders as I walk past them when going into the garage that I need to get it done lol Attached Images   Last edited by m5james; 09-14-2017 at 01:59 AM.. |
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| 08-22-2017, 10:12 AM | #20 |
gixxerboy63 Tanzanite Blue II X5M Pilot  1122Rep 2,088Posts Drives: M3, M4, X3 M40i, X5M Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: WS, GSO High Point, NC iTrader: (4) Garage List2017 m4 [0.00]2010 BMW X5M [10.00] | Subscribed! __________________  2020 X5M - Tanzanite II 2012 M3 - Alpine White |
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| 08-22-2017, 02:17 PM | #21 |
| philly42 Second Lieutenant 93Rep 291Posts Drives: X5M, Z3M Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0) | Quote: | Originally Posted by m5james Sadly I haven't touched it :-/ I've put one on my GF's 535xiT but it was much simpler and I wanted to get it done right after a walnut blasting. I plan on doing this at the same time I install my meth setup. I've been preoccupied with doing some summertime remodeling outside while maintaining everyone elses cars but my own. The X5M is my daily driver and has been quite reliable, so I've been getting the GF's car, my backup 328ci and my mom's 330ci whenever shr brings it over. Don't worry, the catch can setup, aftermarket downpipes, meth setup and a 55 gallon drum of methanol are daily reminders I walk past daily as reminders that I need to get it done lol | Subscribed too! You're plans are pretty much aligned with mine. Though I still got work to do on the supercharged Z3M to turn it into more of a track car...one including water/methanol injection. |
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| 08-23-2017, 01:19 AM | #22 |
jandref321 Captain  359Rep 728Posts Drives: 2012 X5M Join Date: May 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (1) | You guys think the 1-4 air duct assembly would be covered by BMW CPO warranty? It's only $200 and looks easy to replace but if covered by warranty why not? My flapper area is leaking a bit. It's plastic and tubing so I'd think no but it's attached to the air ducting to the turbos so maybe yes. Last edited by jandref321; 08-23-2017 at 01:39 AM.. Reason: Specified warranty |
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