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Potter63
· Registered Joined Feb 8, 2018 · 180 Posts I have purchased one of these cheap Nh35 from China as well. It came with the NH35A and SII incisions on the rotor. Looks very well put together, hacks and keeps a good time. I think it's safe to assume that these movements are manufactured by Seiko directly in China
HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 PostsPotter63 said: I have purchased one of these cheap Nh35 from China as well. It came with the NH35A and SII incisions on the rotor. Looks very well put together, hacks and keeps a good time. I think it's safe to assume that these movements are manufactured by Seiko directly in China Click to expand...While I'm pretty sure you have an authentic NH3x movement, I'm not sure why people assume Seiko is manufacturing them in China. NH3x movements have been showing up for some time, without country of origin specified on their rotors. While Seiko has case manufacturing factories in China, I can't find any references to a Chinese movement factory. It would seem to make business sense, but all manufacturing references list only Malaysia and Japan. I'm sure China sucks up a major portion of Malaysia's output.
Potter63
· Registered Joined Feb 8, 2018 · 180 PostsHoustonReal said: While I'm pretty sure you have an authentic NH3x movement, I'm not sure why people assume Seiko is manufacturing them in China. NH3x movements have been showing up for some time, without country of origin specified on their rotors. While Seiko has case manufacturing factories in China, I can't find any references to a Chinese movement factory. It would seem to make business sense, but all manufacturing references list only Malaysia and Japan. I'm sure China sucks up a major portion of Malaysia's output. Click to expand...It's more than an assumption. Because of their export focused policy, you will be hard pressed to buy anything from China, that wasn't manufactured there in the first place. If I Chinese seller was to import the movements from Malaysia, before selling them from China, I'd imagine the import taxes their government put on everything will be quite significant. That leaves us with only three plausible scenario. -A large portion of Seikos movement are manufactured in China and sold directly from there -These movements are Seikos replicas/fakes sold from China -The movements are either from one or the other categories mentioned above, depending on sellers/costs
HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 PostsPotter63 said: It's more than an assumption. Because of their export focused policy, you will be hard pressed to buy anything from China, that wasn't manufactured there in the first place. If I Chinese seller was to import the movements from Malaysia, before selling them from China, I'd imagine the import taxes their government put on everything will be quite significant. That leaves us with only three plausible scenario. -A large portion of Seikos movement are manufactured in China and sold directly from there -These movements are Seikos replicas/fakes sold from China -The movements are either from one or the other categories mentioned above, depending on sellers/costs Click to expand...Many Chinese watch brands also use Miyota mechanical movements, which are manufactured in Japan. Fiyta uses Miyota almost exclusively, and has mandated Miyota movements in new Beijing Watch Factory models, as well.
BRAND｜MIYOTA MOVEMENT
MIYOTA is a Japanese watch movement brand distinguished for the use of metal components. Brands all around the world use MIYOTA movements because of our commitment to excellent technology, quality and sales support.
miyotamovement.com "Our movements are assembled in Japan using only parts manufactured at our Japanese plants, which enables us to ensure their quality." Seiko only makes movements in Japan, Malaysia and Singapore. NH3x movements only seem to be produced in Japan and Malaysia. Here is a company in Shenzhen, that sells TMI NH35A movement wholesale, for as little as $26.80 each, and claims all the versions they sell are made in Japan. Wygicoo Oem Custom Rotor Original Seiko Nh35 Movement Automatic Mechanical - Buy Mouvements De Montre Reloj De Movimient Nh35 Movement,Movimiento De Reloj Movimento Nh35 Movement,Uhrwerk Mechanisch Movimiento Para De Reloj Luxuries Nh35 Movement Product on Alibaba.com Admin Edit: leave politics off WatchUSeek please. Potter63
· Registered Joined Feb 8, 2018 · 180 PostsHoustonReal said: Many Chinese watch brands also use Miyota mechanical movements, which are manufactured in Japan. Fiyta uses Miyota almost exclusively, and has mandated Miyota movement in new Beijing Watch Factory models, as well.Very interesting. I guess everything is relative after all? I can imagine flexibility is something that anyone would be always ready to introduce in any equation, if the outcome is some good old profit/cash! I still remain a bit skeptical about anything that comes from alibaba/ali express (where I have also sourced my NH35 movement). As I think flexibility can take many different direction after all 😅😅 PBRAND｜MIYOTA MOVEMENT
MIYOTA is a Japanese watch movement brand distinguished for the use of metal components. Brands all around the world use MIYOTA movements because of our commitment to excellent technology, quality and sales support.
Paddy V
· Registered Joined Apr 30, 2018 · 155 Posts My understanding is that some NH-35 are manufactured in China called Tianma NH-35. Whether Tianma is the name of the factory or subcontractor of Seiko is unknown but that is the term used. This could be wrong as it is just a name given by Chinese buyers of NH-35 rather than hinting at Chinese production of NH-35. In any case, there is a lot of NH-35 to be sourced within China whether these are just imported from Japan and Seiko (Malaysia) or otherwise. I'm actually not aware of any Japanese made NH-35 I think many of Seiko's automatic movements are all manufactured outside of Japan except for higher end Seikos. As long as the dial doesn't say Japan movement that Seiko movement is Chinese, Malaysian, or made elsewhere. The cases and bracelets are mostly made in China. Some SARB and mid tier Seikos if you open them up used to even have "Case and bracelet made in China" printed somewhere. While Citizen (and Miyota) and Orient make most of their movements in Japan, Seiko has long since been making movements in Malaysia with movement parts also made in Thailand and I expect also China. I've even seen some in convention in Bangkok where they fabricated parts for some supplier for Seiko. HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 PostsPaddy V said: My understanding is that some NH-35 are manufactured in China called Tianma NH-35. Whether Tianma is the name of the factory or subcontractor of Seiko is unknown but that is the term used. This could be wrong as it is just a name given by Chinese buyers of NH-35 rather than hinting at Chinese production of NH-35. In any case, there is a lot of NH-35 to be sourced within China whether these are just imported from Japan and Seiko (Malaysia) or otherwise. I'm actually not aware of any Japanese made NH-35 I think many of Seiko's automatic movements are all manufactured outside of Japan except for higher end Seikos. As long as the dial doesn't say Japan movement that Seiko movement is Chinese, Malaysian, or made elsewhere. The cases and bracelets are mostly made in China. Some SARB and mid tier Seikos if you open them up used to even have "Case and bracelet made in China" printed somewhere. While Citizen (and Miyota) and Orient make most of their movements in Japan, Seiko has long since been making movements in Malaysia with movement parts also made in Thailand and I expect also China. I've even seen some in convention in Bangkok where they fabricated parts for some supplier for Seiko. Click to expand...Seiko does make watch parts in Chinese factories, like cases and bracelets, but NOT movements. Seiko has mechanical movement factories in Japan, Malaysia and Singapore, but only makes the NH3x series in the first two locations.
P Paddy V
· Registered Joined Apr 30, 2018 · 155 PostsHoustonReal said: Seiko does make watch parts in Chinese factories, like cases and bracelets, but NOT movements. Seiko has mechanical movement factories in Japan, Malaysia and Singapore, but only makes the NH3x series in the first two locations. View attachment 16434275 Click to expand...This must be the Tianma NH35! it's Malaysian and the NH35 movements we can buy from the many, many Chinese sellers of NH35 are called Tianma - TMI NH35. Malaysian indeed. My NH35 I just received from Aliexpress has the exact same TMI markings.
HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 PostsPaddy V said: This must be the Tianma NH35! it's Malaysian and the NH35 movements we can buy from the many, many Chinese sellers of NH35 are called Tianma - TMI NH35. Malaysian indeed. My NH35 I just received from Aliexpress has the exact same TMI markings. Click to expand...TMI was Time Module Inc., a marketing arm of Seiko in Hong Kong. It still exists under the new name, "SEIKO Manufacturing (H.K.) Ltd." as of April, 1, 2020. https://www.timemodule.com/upload/download_item/Catalogue%202021%20(English).pdf "Time Module (TMI), a member of the Seiko Group, was established in 1987 with funding from Seiko Watch Company, Seiko Instruments Inc., and Seiko Epson Corp. to manufacture watch movements." P
Paddy V
· Registered Joined Apr 30, 2018 · 155 PostsHoustonReal said: TMI was Time Module Inc., a marketing arm of Seiko in Hong Kong. It still exists under the new name, "SEIKO Manufacturing (H.K.) Ltd." as of April, 1, 2020. https://www.timemodule.com/upload/download_item/Catalogue%202021%20(English).pdf "Time Module (TMI), a member of the Seiko Group, was established in 1987 with funding from Seiko Watch Company, Seiko Instruments Inc., and Seiko Epson Corp. to manufacture watch movements." Click to expand...Yeah I suspected the TMI was referring to TianMa. The I isn't as clear on the rotor on mine and thought that was the connection. Clearly not.
HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 PostsPaddy V said: Yeah I suspected the TMI was referring to TianMa. The I isn't as clear on the rotor on mine and thought that was the connection. Clearly not. Click to expand...So "TianMa" translates to Pegasus?
Monkey_like_watch
· Registered Joined Mar 1, 2017 · 1,572 Posts Yep. 天马 "Tian'ma" means "Sky horse" and translates into English as Pegasus.HoustonReal said: So "TianMa" translates to Pegasus? Click to expand...B
bklake
· Registered Joined Oct 12, 2014 · 400 Posts Comments?
24.22US $ 28% OFF|NH36 Automatic Mechanical Movement Dual Calendar 3 Hands Self winding Movement For Seiko NH36 Mechanical Watch Movement Replace|Tool Parts| - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
www.aliexpress.com HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 Postsbklake said: Comments?The movement pictured is NOT an NH36. It looks like a Hangzhou 2 Series, derived from the Seiko 7009A. TMI doesn't produce gilt or decorated calibers, and the rotor is wrong. Seiko 7009A, Hangzhou 2 Series, TMI NH36A24.22US $ 28% OFF|NH36 Automatic Mechanical Movement Dual Calendar 3 Hands Self winding Movement For Seiko NH36 Mechanical Watch Movement Replace|Tool Parts| - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
B bklake
· Registered Joined Oct 12, 2014 · 400 Posts I knew it wasn't a Seiko or TMI. Just interesting that the question was asked if the Chinese copied the 4R3x or NH movement. They now have something that is named an NH36. It is sort of similar to the "ETA 2824" that looks like a 2824 but costs $20-25. The cost should be a clue that it isn't the real deal. If base on the 7009, it should fit fine when fitted to an NH36 case. HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 Postsbklake said: I knew it wasn't a Seiko or TMI. Just interesting that the question was asked if the Chinese copied the 4R3x or NH movement. They now have something that is named an NH36. It is sort of similar to the "ETA 2824" that looks like a 2824 but costs $20-25. The cost should be a clue that it isn't the real deal. If base on the 7009, it should fit fine when fitted to an NH36 case. Click to expand...The Hangzhou 6 Series, Liaoning Peacock SL3000, Sea-Gull ST2130 and HKPT PT5000, are all ETA 2824 clones, but none of them should sell that cheap. I noticed that this seller has 2813-style movements, with the floral logo.
He may have access to a factory that makes other cheap copy calibers. B bklake
· Registered Joined Oct 12, 2014 · 400 Posts I purchased one of these once out of curiosity and because it was $15 at the time. 21.39US $ 28% OFF|Clone ETA 2824 movement replacement Shanghai Gold Mechanical Automatic movement date display Watch clock repair tool|Watch Movement| - AliExpress These sellers get their pictures mixed up and somehow slip in a real 2824 picture here and there. The calendar side picture is a dead giveaway. It also beats at 21,600 which they fail to mention in the listing. I have, so far, an ST2130, HZ6460, and PT5000, ETA2836, and SW200. I am familiar with the differences. HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 Postsbklake said: I purchased one of these once out of curiosity and because it was $15 at the time. 21.39US $ 28% OFF|Clone ETA 2824 movement replacement Shanghai Gold Mechanical Automatic movement date display Watch clock repair tool|Watch Movement| - AliExpress These sellers get their pictures mixed up and somehow slip in a real 2824 picture here and there. The calendar side picture is a dead giveaway. It also beats at 21,600 which they fail to mention in the listing. I have, so far, an ST2130, HZ6460, and PT5000, ETA2836, and SW200. I am familiar with the differences. Click to expand...The reviews mention that this is a 21,600 bph version, and there are a high number of initial failures/DOA. I'd rather have a semi-reliable DG2813, than one of these crappy 2824 imposters. These movements are actually made by Shanghai Watch Factory, and are designated SB1HRZ2. They have horrible reputations for reliability, and are not true ETA clones. One large difference is these movements are 5.5mm thick, and an ETA 2824-2 is only 4.6mm. They are produced in 28800 and 21600 versions, and Shanghai claims they have 25 or 35 jewels. (Some movement makers have been known to add non-functional jewels, to claim a high jewel count) Outside of a few Shanghai branded watches, the SB1HRZ2 is most commonly found in replica/fake watches, where its ultra cheap price, and its passing resemblance to an ETA, serves the lower end of that market.
S ScDevon
· Registered Joined Jul 9, 2021 · 1,330 Posts TMI / SII / NH35 / NH 36 is not "unbranded". Seiko makes these movements in many countries and it's "legal" for the watch to say "Japan Movement" on the dial if the movement is made in Singapore / Malaysia / Hong Kong / China / or Japan, etc... because the factories are either owned by Seiko or the factories are licensed by Seiko to produce the movements in other places. Internet rumors are all over the place that the parts are manufactured in Japan and assembled in other countries, or the parts are manufactured AND assembled in other countries or anything in between. Seiko won't say (can you blame them?) and my Singapore and Malaysian Seiko movements run every bit as good as my (supposedly) real Japanese ones. HoustonReal
· Registered Joined Dec 29, 2013 · 6,220 PostsScDevon said: TMI / SII / NH35 / NH 36 is not "unbranded". Seiko makes these movements in many countries and it's "legal" for the watch to say "Japan Movement" on the dial if the movement is made in Singapore / Malaysia / Hong Kong / China / or Japan, etc... because the factories are either owned by Seiko or the factories are licensed by Seiko to produce the movements in other places. Internet rumors are all over the place that the parts are manufactured in Japan and assembled in other countries, or the parts are manufactured AND assembled in other countries or anything in between. Seiko won't say (can you blame them?) and my Singapore and Malaysian Seiko movements run every bit as good as my (supposedly) real Japanese ones. Click to expand...I don't think anyone was suggesting that TMI/SII NH3x calibers were "unbranded". "Seiko" movements, like the 4R3x, are only designated with "Seiko" and their unique model numbers, when they are in Seiko brand watches. Even Seiko owned brands, like Pulsar and Alba, use different model names for their Seiko-made movements. The TMI/SII movement model identifiers are used by third party (non-Seiko owned) brands, like Invicta.
| Seiko 5, SKX, Presage, Prospex | Alba, J. Springs, Lorus, Pulsar, etc. | 3rd party brands - TMI, SII |
| 7S26 | Y676 (SII) | NH26 |
| 4R3x | NH3x | |
| 5M42/5M43 (Kinetic) | YT57/YT58 | YT57/YT58 |
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