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| 2014/04/08 08:21:32 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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Chaospling Dakka Veteran | What would you think if a later Warhammer 40k edition switched to D8 or D10 or maybe even D12? I've thought about this because I'd like to see bigger differences between Armour saves and as profiles go up to 10 (Profiles may also be revised with this chance) I would like to see close combat needing other rolls than just 3+, 4+ and 5+. The same goes when working out Strength against Toughness or Armour values. There's of course the "the difference when going from D6 to D10 doesn't matter" - argument which can be discussed, but would you have a problem with this? Would it be too unhandy to hold several of these dice in your hand? (Well, they could be produced small enough.) Would you hate to go out and spend money on these dice? Anything else? |
| Andy Chambers wrote: To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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| 2014/04/08 08:44:12 Subject: Re:D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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ingtaer [MOD] Fixture of Dakka | I don't see the point unless you mix different dice. but then it gets to be a real PITA when you play with different dice. Here a few examples from 2nd edition to show how unwieldy it can get; Chain fist, armour pen- D20+D4+D6+10. Multi Melta armour pen- D6+2D12+8. Rapier- D6+2D10+9. My how I don't miss those days! Although having said that D10 system would be logical especially for close combat and would make for a much better to hit chart. |
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| 2014/04/08 08:52:58 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Chaospling Dakka Veteran | I agree that it gets very unwieldy to mix the dice, I remember that hehe - but why would you do that in the first place? |
| Andy Chambers wrote: To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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| 2014/04/08 09:11:14 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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Dragon_Cultist Fresh-Faced New User | Why not D12? Then you can double everything until you get things sorted out. I think it would be good as in the case of the charts for wounding and CC the statistical variation should be higher. Also here is a google doc which has a rules rewrite with a D10: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9rcO5sQ7ReFdElFNTg1VlZWWnc/edit from this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/587077.page |
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| 2014/04/08 09:38:30 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Chaospling Dakka Veteran | Ah interesting with rules where each player move in the same movement phase - seems a lot more dynamic... I don't see rule-suggestions for Armour... On a D10 I'd say Terminator Armour 2+, Power Armour 4+, Artificer Armour 3+, Flak Armour 8+, Carapace Armour 7+, Mesh Armour 8+, Aspect Armour 5+, Heavy Aspect Armour 4+. Invulnerable and cover saves could also be discussed but I'd rather want Armour save modifiers with a minimum to some armour - for example that Terminator can't be reduced beyond a 7+. |
| Andy Chambers wrote: To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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| 2014/04/08 09:52:39 Subject: Re:D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Lanrak Lieutenant Colonel | @all. If you use more modern resolution methods, a D6 can give lots of variation. D6 are the dice that are 'easiest to roll' and are great for multiple dice resolution. Most games use D8, D10,D12,D20 for single dice roll resolution. |
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| 2014/04/08 10:27:09 Subject: Re:D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Chaospling Dakka Veteran | Lanrak wrote:@all. If you use more modern resolution methods, a D6 can give lots of variation. D6 are the dice that are 'easiest to roll' and are great for multiple dice resolution. Most games use D8, D10,D12,D20 for single dice roll resolution. How do you mean? I suggested the D8 or D10 because it should be meant for a single die resolution. I don't like the non-linear probabilities 2D6 gives. |
| Andy Chambers wrote: To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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| 2014/04/08 20:47:26 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| BaconCatBug Norn Queen | I gave a lengthy proposal here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/587077.page Basically, if you swap to CM and translate 1 inch as 2.5cm, D10s and D5s work well. It would need a total rewrite of the stats though since everything is clumped at 345 right now. |
| This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/08 20:47:53 |
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| 2014/04/08 21:25:17 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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Psienesis Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter Seattle | Given the way stats work in 40K already, basing the game on a d10 system seems to be the most logical, especially if you add a hard-cap to stats at 10, and then have whatever modifiers apply on top of that for checks. So, for example, let's say you have a Lord Commissar, Ld 10. He will automatically pass any Ld test required to make, so long as there are no penalties to his roll. So, with a hard-cap rule, even if there's a power or SR active that would grant him a +2 to the roll, he doesn't gain the benefit of it (he doesn't actually get Ld 12) but if there was another power active that applied a -3 to his Ld, his +2 bonus would offset that to a simple -1. ... I'd also have it written where only one effect of each type (buff or debuff) can apply to a single stat at once, that being whichever is higher. So, in this case, even if you had a power active that added +1 to Ld, and another that added +2, and then 4 different things each causing -3, our Lord Commissar still rolls at LD 9 (10+2-3) as only one "buff" and only one "debuff" apply to him at a time. |
| It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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| 2014/04/08 21:52:24 Subject: Re:D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| greyknight12 Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight | Logically it makes sense. It would allow greater variety in stats. However, who wants to buy a tub of 30 D10? I like D6 because it's everywhere, and accept the granularity as a side effect of that. |
| Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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| 2014/04/08 22:08:59 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Chaospling Dakka Veteran |  BaconCatBug wrote:I gave a lengthy proposal here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/587077.page Basically, if you swap to CM and translate 1 inch as 2.5cm, D10s and D5s work well. It would need a total rewrite of the stats though since everything is clumped at 345 right now.
Ah yes - I'm having a great time right now writing stats for Space Marines, Space Marine Terminators, Howling Banshees, Eldar Guardians, Ork Boys, Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines - turning out quite well I think. I of course think that my system is much better, but I don't know if others would think it's too complicated. I was thinking to reduce movement to 5" but I don't know if that would cause an outrage if people were forced to play with this and I wouldn't mind stay with the 6" move even though I'm moving to D10. I would also love to use centimetres instead of inches (When will Brits, Americans etc. ever see the truth?  ) but it's not that important to me - at least in this game... |
| Andy Chambers wrote: To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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| 2014/04/09 01:19:29 Subject: Re:D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Psienesis Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter Seattle |  greyknight12 wrote:Logically it makes sense. It would allow greater variety in stats. However, who wants to buy a tub of 30 D10? I like D6 because it's everywhere, and accept the granularity as a side effect of that.
There are plenty of places to buy piles of d10, both from retail gaming stores and from the internet. |
| It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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| 2014/04/09 08:52:02 Subject: Re:D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Lanrak Lieutenant Colonel | Hi folks. What I meant was, if you are rolling handfuls of dice , EG mob of orks shooting assaulting, etc. . D6s are the best dice for this. They are cheap and plentiful and easy to read at a distance. If you are rolling a single dice solitary dice, then multiple sided dice give a wider range of results. Why do the results in 40k feel restrictive? Because they are restricted by the game development choices made . If you remove modifiers , then it means you restrict possible outcomes and results. And even the WS vs WS table restricts things even more to just 3 possible results! Simple games can run without modifiers. 40k is not that simple ! The devs removed modifiers to make the game appeal more to younger player who do not like maths. Put in tons of special rules where you roll a dice , instead of using a modifier. Then STILL use HAVE to use modifiers any way , but list them in other special rules and vehicle damage charts etc! If you use the stat line directly and effectively you can get MORE diversity using a D6. And may be not need bigger dice. But that would mean writing rules for the game play of 40k.... |
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| 2014/04/09 09:09:28 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| Dragon_Cultist Fresh-Faced New User | I find bigger dice easier to roll (they are rounder). And while the rules can be made to make better use of d6, a high number of sides will always have more options. |
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| 2014/04/09 14:54:26 Subject: D8 or D10 instead of D6 |
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| BaconCatBug Norn Queen | How about making a small credit card sized dice roller with an LCD screen? Surely it must be cheap enough to do it for the price of a bucket of dice? :3 |
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