Difference Between Free Su-25 And Buyable Su-25? :: DCS World ...

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商店页面 DCS World Steam Edition > 综合讨论 > 主题详情 Hiten 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 3 日 下午 8:23 Difference between free Su-25 and buyable Su-25? I'm trying to figure out the reason why there is a buyable SU-25 when one already comes free with the game.What is the difference, and why would one opt to buy the SU-25 that is available seperately?I've downloaded DCS World but am waiting to pick up some new batteries for my Logitech Freedom 2.4ghz wireless joystick...it's been years since I've had a reason to take it out of my garage, haha. This looks like a pretty good reason. 最后由 Hiten 编辑于; 2013 年 8 月 3 日 下午 8:24 < > 正在显示第 46 - 60 条，共 69 条留言 aoighost 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:12 I hate saying it, but Specta is right. The fact is that the flight sim community has to adapt to a new generation of gamers to keep it self alive. To be blunt, when you are trying to market to bring in people who are not hardcore flight simmers, having their entry point DLC being something that is almost the same, and in this case less "featured" than the freeware is just going to scare newbies away from the hobby. The reality is that the industry needs to adapt in order to survive. ED has a good product, but unless they market it properly, it's dead in the water when dealing with newcomers in places like Steam. 最后由 aoighost 编辑于; 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:14 #46 Zuul 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:17

引用自 Specta：

引用自 Tatsue：THAT is the subject I think is being discussed here. Though I think it's a fairly useless discussion.

As a CUSTOMER who is wondering what did I pay for compared to the Free ware SU25TYou kind of lost me at this point , Any way good luck with the steam cliental and that approach The sheer complexity of your post and number of times you gave reference to various other makes and models along with a whiff of elitism , Kind of sums up the problem

DCS is a complex product. Complete and accurate information therefore tends to be complex. That's not elitism, it's honesty and being thorough.The more honest and thorough one tends to be, the less likely misunderstandings are to be. If for no other reason then you're so damned confused you have to ask for further clarification, lol.Part of the problem is, you're coming in with the mindset of paying for something "better", instead of something "different".That's not what DCS is about, as Tatsue rightly brought up, if that was the case, what would be the point of the P51.In both cases (the SU-25 and the P51) the simulations are better. In the case of the SU-25 it's subtly so, and in the case of the P51 extremely noticable with a clickable cockpit. That's also seen in the price difference. $40 instead of $15. You're just not getting a superior "airplane" which has nothing to do with the simulation.If people only want to pay money for better airplanes, and to hell with the simulation quality, then ED may as well scrap 80% of it's catalogue.Really at this point, it seems like they should change the free game to the SU-25 giving all the new players a "functionally" inferior product and sell the SU-25T for real money, giving the "steam clientele" it's happy fuzzies of buying a "superior" product. 最后由 Zuul 编辑于; 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:21 #47 Tatsue 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:22 It's not elitism, Specta, please do not take it as such.I am indicating and explaining that this is actually a complex matter. "Su-25" is the correct name for the aircraft, exactly the same way A-10A is the correct name for the "basic" version of the A-10. The issue here is that the Soviet Union (and nowadays, Russia) name aircraft differently than does most western air forces.This means that the "DLC" either gets called Su-25, the "correct" name, and some people might get confused because they are used to NATO standards. Or it gets called "Su-25A", and thereby gets a name that does not actually exist for the real thing. (Though the confusion is unfortunately aided by western-focused media, including the Ubisoft-owned "Lock On", this is unfortunate.) Incidentally, in this case the russians will get upset I suspect, since this is one of the most iconic and beloved aircraft in Russian history.What I objected to is the notion that an aircraft that is, in real life, less capable than another aircraft, becomes invalid as a DLC. I do not understand that point of view. #48 aoighost 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:22 I don't think that the aspect of "better" is what's of concern here. What it looks like to me is that to someone who isn't from a flight sim background, the SU-25 is just *way* too similar to the SU-25T that is free to not have cultureshock. I personally think it's just that the SU-25 was a bad idea for an initial DLC on Steam. Personally I have a feeling that if the SU-25 had come later, and the A-10A was available on launch, a lot of outcry could be negated. It's not about better, it is about different. The SU-25 is very similar to the SU-25T, and as such, as an initial entry point DLC, it's probably not going to end well for newbies.I should note, personally, being from a flight sim background, this doesn't seem very new to me. The main concern I have is that people who aren't from flight sim backgrounds will get scared away because of a bad choice of initial entry level DLC. 最后由 aoighost 编辑于; 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:25 #49 Tatsue 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:32 I believe the reason the 25 came first was technical. The A-10A is already available from the ED store, I do not know what the delay on Steam is. Possibly something with integrating it into the separate Steam "DLC" deployment model, or perhaps something legal. (The latter being an area that always gets me confused, so I am now in the habit of assuming "lawyers" whenever something is weird.)Agreed though, would have been nice to have them all in from the start. Unfortunate that that is not how it turned out. 最后由 Tatsue 编辑于; 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:33 #50 roly!342 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 8:59 whats this ? constructive criticism on steam ? impossible! >:P #51 Tatsue 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 9:09 Sleep is an awesome idea. I'll get some of that soon too, I think. :)And yeah, I can see your perspective. It's easy to get so used to things being "obvious" even when they probably aren't.Just be happy there isn't a Korea focus (yet?). Then we could start having a LOT of fun with what some of the aircraft are called by various parties. I am fairly certain the NATO name for the MiG-15 would actually get censored on Steam, for example. :D But there could easily be similar issues in, say, the classic MiG-21. If you get yourself one of the modernised MiG-21Bison or LanceR, for example, and then afterwards get a regular MiG-21bis (basically, late Vietnam). It would look like the same aircraft, but the situation for them would be completely different.Basically, this kind of thing is a HUGE minefield when it comes to military aviation, so much so that I had to double-check the MiG-21 version numbers and names just now to be sure. (You can see the rediculously huge list of them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_variants )The Su-25 isn't quite as old as the MiG-21, of course, so it hasn't achieved quite as huge an amount of variations over the decades, but there still is some 8-10 major variations of it out there. So yeah, it's a minefield, and I fear guarding completely against confusion is pretty hopeless since even the would-be experts will get confused about the real planes. :PAs far as 25's go, my personal dream is an Su-25SM, fully modeled with all systems. (That being the upgrade programme for the Su-25, partly based on the Su-25T.) But that would require getting permission to model an active-duty russian fighter plane in detail for the worldwide public market. :( #52 Tatsue 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 9:44 Hey again, this has been added to the product description for the Su-25:"The Su-25 is the forerunner of the Su-25T (included for free in DCS World) and has much in common with the Su-25T. Although the Su-25 lacks some of sensors and weapons of the Su-25T, it provides better flight performance and is a more simple aircraft to operate. The Su-25 has been produced in great numbers and has seen service in many air forces around the world; more so than any later version of the 'Frogfoot'. "There has also been an additional image added that better displays the difference in the cockpit rendering technology. (Self-shadowing fully 6-degrees-of-freedom.)Hopefully this will help avoid confusion regarding this product in the future.If there are any other things you feel can be done better, please do not hesitate to say so. #53 Fat Boo Bear 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 10:11 a simple way to avoid this confusion is to NOT sell FC planes at all on steam. I also almost bought the SU25A FC expecting it to have interactive cockpit. The price difference between A10 and SU25A alerted me to research both games further and find out why one is cheaper than the other. So glad I did my research and decided NOT to buy SU25A as it is inferior in value to the A10C. #54 SeriousSpy 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 5 日 下午 11:06 Lokust, there is a very easy way to differentiate them, if it says Flaming Cliffs at the end, then they are from Flaming Cliffs, not a full-fidelity DCS product, it's simple, really. #55 aoighost 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 6 日 上午 5:29 That needs to be clarified to newbies then. #56 Fat Boo Bear 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 6 日 上午 8:56

引用自 Commander Vimes：Lokust, there is a very easy way to differentiate them, if it says Flaming Cliffs at the end, then they are from Flaming Cliffs, not a full-fidelity DCS product, it's simple, really.

well newbies (like i was) won't know it right away. i know it now since i researched it beforehand. there should be a disclaimer on SU25A store page saying "This plane does not feature interactive cockpit". or better yet-as i mention previously- dont sell it at all on steam to avoid PR disaster.i previously seriously really thought all DCS products had interactive cockpit. i would definitely be angry if i had bought SU25A not knowing what i know now.personal note: i bought the A10C and i am completely satisfied. :) but it was a close call. 最后由 Fat Boo Bear 编辑于; 2013 年 8 月 6 日 上午 9:02 #57 Tatsue 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 6 日 上午 9:48 Not sell the type of product that the general mainstream gamer is most likely to enjoy? ;)Most people that are not Flight Sim fanatics do want things like the 25"A" more than things like the A-10C.Hopefully we will be able to prepare a video for each DLC. #58 SkateZilla 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 6 日 上午 11:06 The SU-25T is a Modern Version, Alot of Electronics and Avionics, Heavier.The SU-25(A) is the Older Version, Lighter, More Agile, Less Avionics.The Free SU-25T Comes with A Non 6DoF Cockpit.The DLC SU-25 Comes with A New 3D 6DoF Cockpit #59 Tatsue 查看个人资料 查看帖子 2013 年 8 月 6 日 上午 11:25 Hi Skate! (E here. Add me mate!)As a fun fact, btw, the T actually used the UB trainer variant as a base, and stuffed the erstwhile rear cockpit full with the avionics required for the additional system. #60 < > 正在显示第 46 - 60 条，共 69 条留言 每页显示数： 1530 50 DCS World Steam Edition > 综合讨论 > 主题详情 发帖日期： 2013 年 8 月 3 日 下午 8:23回复数： 69 讨论规则及指引

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