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|  GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help #3227043 06/21/22 08:46 AM | Joined: Jun 2022 Posts: 2 D DavidMan  OP Junior Member | | OP Junior Member D Joined: Jun 2022 Posts: 2 | I'm searching for a DP which is not pricy but will last me for a few years. The sound and all the other cool features are not as important to me as the action is.Almost everyone says the PHA-4 feels better than the GHS and RHC and it also has that triple sensor thing BUT it's heavy which means it can be tiring and it takes time rise up so it's not suitable for fast repetitions and that's something that can limit me in the far future. I was wondering if that's a valid reason to skip the FP-30X and go for the other options. If so, which one should I choose? | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227044 06/21/22 08:52 AM | | Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,875Cheshire, United Kingdom D Doug M. 5000 Post Club Member | | 5000 Post Club Member D Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,875Cheshire, United Kingdom | Originally Posted by DavidManI'm searching for a DP which is not pricy but will last me for a few years. The sound and all the other cool features are not as important to me as the action is.Almost everyone says the PHA-4 feels better than the GHS and RHC and it also has that triple sensor thing BUT it's heavy which means it can be tiring and it takes time rise up so it's not suitable for fast repetitions and that's something that can limit me in the far future. I was wondering if that's a valid reason to skip the FP-30X and go for the other options. If so, which one should I choose?What's your budget?Are you willing to buy used instruments? Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano StandPiano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help Doug M. #3227046 06/21/22 08:55 AM | | Joined: Jun 2022 Posts: 2 D DavidMan OP Junior Member | | OP Junior Member D Joined: Jun 2022 Posts: 2 | 1000 USD and I am willing to buy used items if its really worth it | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227052 06/21/22 09:21 AM | | Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,875Cheshire, United Kingdom D Doug M. 5000 Post Club Member | | 5000 Post Club Member D Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,875Cheshire, United Kingdom | Originally Posted by DavidMan1000 USD and I am willing to buy used items if its really worth itI would say that for people reaching grade 6, the benefit of buying a used digital (especially if you have a lowish budget) is that you are able to buy a piano with a more nuanced action: which can cope better with the requirements of grade-6 to 8 pieces.Also, if buying a recent model used, the sampling bit-rate etc., will be much higher in an intermediately priced piano than in a lower priced model.Now from a beginner's perspective, yes you can buy a new instrument for $1000 which will suffice.The depreciation with digital pianos is worse than for cars. A new $1,600 mid-level portable piano (e.g., ES920, FP90X, P515 etc) will sell used about 2 years later for a tad over $1000.A new $850 low-priced portable piano (e.g., ES110; FP30X, P125) will sell used for about $350--$450An intermediate level portable piano should last ----maintainance free---for about 10 years. If you do have to pay for ware-and-tear repairs due to regular intensive practice, then the cost of repair will be relatively low---typically the labour bill for 2h work dwarfs the part cost e.g., $70/h.Ergo, buying 2-3 year old used digital piano is not a bad bargain. As you test before you buy a used instrument, you can ensure it fully works before purchasing ---whereas new instruments get shipped by the store to your house and you get what you get.So what I advise is to go to a store and test lots of models from low-mid-&-high priced models---get an idea of what they feel and sound like to play.If you feel like buying an intermediate level portable or cabinet piano, you can always come back to this question and ask tips on buying used.*there are a few posts on this topic already which can be googled  . Last edited by Doug M.; 06/21/22 09:23 AM. Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano StandPiano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227053 06/21/22 09:22 AM | | Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 K KawaFanboi 3000 Post Club Member | | 3000 Post Club Member K Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 | if the es110 NEW is 555 euro, get that. otherwise fp30x. but do try them first you might hate one or the other. | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227058 06/21/22 09:43 AM | | Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 1,541 _ _sem_ 1000 Post Club Member | | 1000 Post Club Member _ Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 1,541 | > Almost everyone says the PHA-4 feels better than the GHS and RHC and it also has that triple sensor thing BUT it's heavy which means it can be tiring and it takes time rise up so it's not suitable for fast repetitions and that's something that can limit me in the far future. I was wondering if that's a valid reason to skip the FP-30X and go for the other options. If so, which one should I choose?You should try them yourself and choose which you like the most. Ignore what everybody says because this is very subjective. The ES120 is not widely available yet but should have slightly improved action (though one may prefer discounted ES110). Regarding Yamaha slabs, you may also try the lower CLP7x5 series, the GTS action will likely soon migrate to their slabs too. | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help _sem_ #3227062 06/21/22 09:59 AM | | Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,875Cheshire, United Kingdom D Doug M. 5000 Post Club Member | | 5000 Post Club Member D Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,875Cheshire, United Kingdom | Originally Posted by _sem_> Almost everyone says the PHA-4 feels better than the GHS and RHC and it also has that triple sensor thing BUT it's heavy which means it can be tiring and it takes time rise up so it's not suitable for fast repetitions and that's something that can limit me in the far future. I was wondering if that's a valid reason to skip the FP-30X and go for the other options. If so, which one should I choose?You should try them yourself and choose which you like the most. Ignore what everybody says because this is very subjective. The ES120 is not widely available yet but should have slightly improved action (though one may prefer discounted ES110). Regarding Yamaha slabs, you may also try the lower CLP7x5 series, the GTS action will likely soon migrate to their slabs too.Fyi David: GTS (Grand Touch - Small) - a modified version of the NXW action with improvements in weighting of the black keys. I think Sem is talking about the GTS in the Yamaha cabinet pianos...CLP735 is plasticCLP745 is wood.Also fyi: the Yamaha digital piano nomenclature is confusing so..CLP = ClavinovaCSP = Clavinova Smart Piano (comes with an app (Smart Pianist) to help you learn and other education gizmos).CVP = Clavinova Versatile Piano (an arranger piano series using similar technology to the Tyros/genos arranger workstations and the electone series organs) Last edited by Doug M.; 06/21/22 09:59 AM. Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano StandPiano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227097 06/21/22 11:28 AM | | Joined: Jan 2018 Posts: 421 N napilopez Full Member | | Full Member N Joined: Jan 2018 Posts: 421 | With a budget of 1000, I'd probably go for a Kawai ES110. I wouldn't say "everyone' thinks the PHA-4 is better. I'd rank them roughly equally, maybe a slight edge to the kawai. It should be quite easy to find somewhere to play the roland if you're in the US and not too hard to find an ES110 or ES520 to try out the Kawai action. | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227198 06/21/22 05:31 PM | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 10,622Northern England. P peterws 10K Post Club Member | | 10K Post Club Member P Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 10,622Northern England. | Any of the actions you describe and the pianos attached to them will get you into the upper grades. GHS from Yamaha is ok, but I still found it taxing some years ago, for my dodgy fingers. PHA 4 is fine to play but is not light. RHC found on the ES110 is to me, the best. The piano itself is very dynamic, but you soon learn to get used to this, like you'd have to on an acoustic.ES110 does not have good speakers, but they do a reaonable job. and the piano's cheap. Mine has a 5 year g'tee on it. Anybody heard of "Wet Leg" . . . . ? | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227210 06/21/22 06:12 PM | | Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 K KawaFanboi 3000 Post Club Member | | 3000 Post Club Member K Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 | peterws, are you sure you're talking about ghs, i've played ghs myself, I wouldnt' classify it as much heavier than the rhc, it's tighter at the top, but overall, pretty close in resistance taking the whole travel into account.of course, all actions are fundamentally Inferior to the RHC. Last edited by KawaFanboi; 06/21/22 06:13 PM. | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3227279 06/22/22 03:35 AM | | Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 679Danmark M Morten Olsson 500 Post Club Member | | 500 Post Club Member M Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 679Danmark | I wouldn't worry about repetition rate whatsoever.I've had all the actions you mention and I would steer clear of the GHS - the constant up-weight made playing this for extended periods quite tiring.I loved the RHC action in the ES 110 I had - I never fell in love with the (RHC 2 ?) action in the ES 520.If I had to pick a cheap DP solely on action I would go with the 110 every time.If I were to broaden my criteria and also consider sound and features the FP-30X would be my choice - action is fine and USB audio is a key feature to me - but may be entirely meaningless to you depending on what you'll be doing with the instrument.CheersMorten | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help KawaFanboi #3227359 06/22/22 12:21 PM | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 10,622Northern England. P peterws 10K Post Club Member | | 10K Post Club Member P Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 10,622Northern England. | Originally Posted by KawaFanboipeterws, are you sure you're talking about ghs, i've played ghs myself, I wouldnt' classify it as much heavier than the rhc, it's tighter at the top, but overall, pretty close in resistance taking the whole travel into account.of course, all actions are fundamentally Inferior to the RHC.I been playing GHS for years on my DGXs. I had three; they were fine istruments and the keyboard too, was fine but tiring particularly if you dug further into the keys for any prolonged period. I found GH and GH3 to be no better, since of course, they were heavier.RHC isn't perfect, but it's the best I'll find for my purposes at the moment..It's a grest compromise. Anybody heard of "Wet Leg" . . . . ? | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help Morten Olsson #3377149 06/11/23 07:12 AM | | Joined: Mar 2019 Posts: 13 V vannix Junior Member | | Junior Member V Joined: Mar 2019 Posts: 13 | What differences did you find? I sold my es110 and planning to buy an es-120 or 520, I thought the RHCII was the same as the RHC (only difference in triple sensor and maybe better dampening) | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3377537 06/12/23 12:33 PM | | Joined: Jun 2023 Posts: 13 M musicfigapartment Junior Member | | Junior Member M Joined: Jun 2023 Posts: 13 | Yea, the PHA-4 is great but you're definitely right about the heaviness. Depending on your playing style you might be better off going with the GHS or RHC if fast repetitions are something that matters to you. Both have great sound and are much lighter pianos. Check out some reviews for each and choose the one that seems like the best fit for you! | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3377623 06/12/23 04:51 PM | Joined: Mar 2020 Posts: 443  Chummy Full Member | | Full Member Joined: Mar 2020 Posts: 443 | Originally Posted by DavidManI'm searching for a DP which is not pricy but will last me for a few years. The sound and all the other cool features are not as important to me as the action is.Almost everyone says the PHA-4 feels better than the GHS and RHC and it also has that triple sensor thing BUT it's heavy which means it can be tiring and it takes time rise up so it's not suitable for fast repetitions and that's something that can limit me in the far future. I was wondering if that's a valid reason to skip the FP-30X and go for the other options. If so, which one should I choose?I couldn't disagree more with everyone than. IMO , and since I'm a very demanding pianist they are all inadequate for advanced play. However, Having tried Kawai ES110 FP-60X and Yamaha P-125 - The latter two models I've played VERY extensively either at rehearsals or as my job as a pianist... I even gigged once with a loan P-125 as well. I own a Kawai ES920 for reference.In my honest opinion from best to wrost it is the Kawai>Yamaha>RolandI just couldn't stand the Roland, sorry. I had to fight the action. Now, I didn't like the Yamaha for being sluggish and the Kawai for being super light but If I had to pick only 1 of these based on the action it'd be the Kawai 100%However what I did like about the Yamaha the most is the user interface - by far outclasses Kawai and Roland entry models.In addition, Yamaha's Pipe Organ sound was really impressive, much better than the competition.Kawai's Rhodes Sound and acoustic pianos are the best in the ES120.But it's all personal. I know many people who use Roland and are fine with it, I know it's obvious but some people might forget it comes down to whether it works for the KIND of music you need to play. Catch me on YouTube for 200 IQ piano covers, musical trivia quizzes, tutorials, reviews and other fun stuff...https://www.youtube.com/p1anoyc | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3377819 06/13/23 05:21 AM | | Joined: Mar 2019 Posts: 13 V vannix Junior Member | | Junior Member V Joined: Mar 2019 Posts: 13 | For who played both es110/es120 and the es520, is the action feeling the same? Being that on paper the difference between the RHC and RHC II is only the triple sensor.I'm also wondering if the ES120 being newer has the improved felt and padding (the action should be quieter and more stable) and the ES520 might not incorporate these improvements. | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3377823 06/13/23 05:50 AM | | Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 K KawaFanboi 3000 Post Club Member | | 3000 Post Club Member K Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 | es120 is over priced, fp30x hit $570 on sale recently. es520 hit $850 | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3377833 06/13/23 06:32 AM | | Joined: Nov 2022 Posts: 286São Paulo, SP, Brazil M MatiasR Full Member | | Full Member M Joined: Nov 2022 Posts: 286São Paulo, SP, Brazil | IMO PHA-4 Standard is a lot better than GHS, no comparison. Stu Harrison from Merriam on YouTube agrees with me. Last edited by MatiasR; 06/13/23 06:32 AM. Roland LX-5, Yamaha Arius YDP-145 => 7Hz Salnotes Zero IEMs | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help KawaFanboi #3377835 06/13/23 06:37 AM | | Joined: Mar 2019 Posts: 13 V vannix Junior Member | | Junior Member V Joined: Mar 2019 Posts: 13 | I really don't like the Roland action.. neither the GHS.From what I tried the RHC was the best feeling and absolutely the less tiring action, I already had a ES110 but was making case noises and the action was really loud.So you suggest to go directly with the ES520? Have you tried both actions and can reply to my question?Thanks! | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | | Re: GHS vs PHA-4 vs RHC need help DavidMan #3377851 06/13/23 07:42 AM | | Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 K KawaFanboi 3000 Post Club Member | | 3000 Post Club Member K Joined: Apr 2022 Posts: 3,868 | i own the 520, love it, but it has chassis buzzing (vibration noise), same with 920. i recommend it if you can get around this issue by using external sound, that's been my only real complaint, love the action, sound samples good. | | | | Copy Link to Clipboard | | Share Post on Facebook | | Share Post on Twitter | | Share Post on Reddit | Moderated by Gombessa, LGabrielPhoto, Piano World, platuser Link Copied to Clipboard | Our Most Popular Forums | | Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths &a... | | Piano Forum | | FAQ - Piano Forum | | MY NEW PIANO or KEYBOARD! - Share Your Story! | | Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum | | FAQ - Tuner-Technicians Forum | | Adult Beginners Forum | | Themed Recital Sub-Forum | | Pianist Corner | | Members Recordings - Pianist Corner | | FAQ - Pianist Corner | | Pianist Corner - Non Classical | | Member Recordings - Non Classical Pianist Corner | | Piano Teachers Forum | | EVENTS! 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