How Many Giants (Xi Xing Ji) Can The Survey Corps Defeat?

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You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. How many Giants (Xi Xing Ji) can the Survey Corps defeat?

• Thread starter ThePickler
• Start date Dec 14, 2018

ThePickler

vs The Titan Shifters have inadvertently angered the Giant Clan of Zheng Jian He's Journey to the West adaptation by killing one of their own. Now the Giants are bloodlusted and wanting to kill them all. The Giants fight with where the Survey Corps defeated the Colossal and Armored Titans. To offset the homefield advantage, the Giants know all about the Survey Corps' Thunder Spears, 3DMG, and swords. The Survey Corps don't know much of the Giants aside from them being really big and strong. The Survey Corps is the one that faced the Colossal, Armored, and Beast Titans and defeated them. Each side has 24 hours of preparation, and the Giants start off at the gate of the wall leading outside the walls, whereas the Corps will start at the other end. Eren and his Titan form are included in the Survey Corps, but he lacks the War Hammer Titan powers. What is the most number of Giants that the Survey Corps can defeat?

Mr Sheldon

I want to kill the lampreys

Based on that image alone, I hesitate to say even one. What are their feats? How fast are they? What is their durability like? Do they have a single weak point?

ThePickler

Mr Sheldon said: What are their feats? How fast are they? What is their durability like? Do they have a single weak point? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Giants are a race of people that live most of their lives as dwarves. They stand around four to five feet tall. Spoiler However when they're willing to fight, they can transform into giants. Spoiler Feat wise, they're immensely strong and durable. Tang Sanzang can punch a human sized opponent far and hard enough that they crater into a stone pillar. Spoiler His elbow strikes were rather ineffective against the Giants, though. Spoiler Giants can also bust through stone walls and smash stone tiles hard enough to shatter them. Spoiler That's about it for them, from what I remember. I think the Thunder Spears are definitely needed, as is a Titanized Eren. EDIT: They don't have any weak points aside from typical ones that a human-like opponent would have.

JoshuaPromise

First off, is Eren with the Survey Corps here? Going off not knowing that, without Eren they can take out potentially a hundred, maybe double that if Levi or Mikasa are bloodlusted and go into over-drive Ackerhax like Levi did with the Beast Titan. If Eren is on their side and shifted, I don't see them ever really losing without absurd numbers from the opposition. From the panels shown so far, they seem to be around the smaller 5-10m class of Titans at most, which are shorter than the overly grown Titans they usually fight. That makes them easy targets, and "They don't have any weak points aside from typical ones that a human-like opponent would have" means they don't need a weakpoint because their whole physical body is a weakpoint. Survey Corps are used to fighting regenerating zombies with an ultra-specific body part, what do you think is going to happen when they're told or realize "These Titans don't regenerate, and if you stab their hearts or decapitate them, cut off their limbs, that's it." They're going to be having a much easier time. Given their description as Iron-bodied, them puts them somewhere inbetween the hardness of regular Titans, and the Armored Titan which can ram and run thru thick 10m of wall. Titans are harder than you think, and the specialized swords the Survey Corps use are made of reinforced Titanium/ultrasteel in order to cut them properly. They won't have much problem cutting them, and their mobility advantage makes them adept for killing here. A titan as small as Ymir's titan-form was able to pull an entire tower apart brick by brick and collapse it by tearing it apart, so Xi Xing Ji breaking stone isn't really anything special for AoT Titans. The downfall ultimately is that unlike the normal mindless titans, these ones are intelligent. Shifters give the Survey Corps a lot of trouble as we've seen and apparently these ones know martial arts. At numbers of 100+ they'll be just plain overwhelmed and it becomes a war of attrition, where tactically their super speed, steel blades and 3DM won't save them anymore from intelligent brute force opponents. And even if the number is only 100 they're likely to suffer a lot of losses and causalities.

ThePickler

brandypang said: First off, is Eren with the Survey Corps here? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

ThePickler said: Eren and his Titan form are included in the Survey Corps, but he lacks the War Hammer Titan powers. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

brandypang said: Titans are harder than you think, and the specialized swords the Survey Corps use are made of reinforced Titanium/ultrasteel in order to cut them properly. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Technically speaking, Sasha was able to cut into a Titan's flesh with a wood chopping axe (something not particularly sharp), the main issue being she couldn't get deep enough with the axe in order to get to the nape. Spoiler The main issue was she couldn't cut out the nape with a single hit, and it kept regenerating in between blows. In fact, that's the reason why they use 2 blades- to cut out the nape with one attack.

brandypang said: A titan as small as Ymir's titan-form was able to pull an entire tower apart brick by brick and collapse it by tearing it apart, so Xi Xing Ji breaking stone isn't really anything special for AoT Titans. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

.....There's a very big difference in strength between pulling the bricks out of a wall and collapsing it that way, and straight up shoulder ramming into a brick wall and smashing apart the bricks. In addition, when looking at some scans from Ymir's Respect Thread: Spoiler The regular Titans have their flesh quite badly damaged by the bricks thrown at them, bricks that are not broken by the impact with the Titan's head. Comparing it to the Giants, the Giants not only break the bricks when impacting them, they are actually undamaged by that, which would seem to indicate that they're quite a fair bit tougher than regular Titans (though lacking in the regeneration). In addition, Tang Sanzang's hits easily send people flying away hard enough to send chunks of a solid stone pillar flying, and they were totally ineffective at hurting the Giants. Thus I am uncertain on whether the steel blades could cut into the Giants, which is the main reason I included the Thunder Spears and Eren.

JoshuaPromise

ThePickler said: Technically speaking, Sasha was able to cut into a Titan's flesh with a wood chopping axe (something not particularly sharp), the main issue being she couldn't get deep enough with the axe in order to get to the nape. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

The main issue was she couldn't cut out the nape with a single hit, and it kept regenerating in between blows. In fact, that's the reason why they use 2 blades- to cut out the nape with one attack. Cutting =/= Damaging If anything that panel is a testament to the strength and durability of Titans. Keep in mind the thickness of the Nape that Sasha needs to get to and cut out is buried literally only a few centimeters deep (That's an abnormally small Titan compared to must, almost human sized) An axe that Sasha is using, under any ordinary circumstances if used on a normal human being would take their head cut off or decapitate their neck. And Sasha cannot even use it to cut in a few centimeters. They reveal similar facts of Titan durability in the prequel Before The Fall. Spoiler Spoiler Titans are technically pierce-able, sure but they're also incredibly thick rather than dense. An arrow can pierce their skin, but straight up bullets fail to make it all the way from thru their body, even the nape. This makes them very easy to penetrate but abnormally hard to dissect or decapitate. They had the ability to insert long iron screws into titans, but iron bladed weapons were functionally useless. Iron weapons that break on their steel bamboo. Steel bamboo they used to make their early titanium swords. The last panel with him successfully cutting a Titan using said titanium blade? It still wasn't enough to even decapitate a single foot, because weight for weight there was much too much there. Titans have the advantage over the Survey Corps being extremely large, and also abnormally thick. It's like cutting thru thick rubber foam, even if your iron sword can cut lighter materials the thickness of the material is still difficult to cut, that's the reason they need such ultrahard weapons. I don't see the Corps having too much trouble making clean cuts here, it should be much easier for the Survey Corps to use their weapons here against smaller, lighter and less bodily abnormal opponents.

ThePickler said: .....There's a very big difference in strength between pulling the bricks out of a wall and collapsing it that way, and straight up shoulder ramming into a brick wall and smashing apart the bricks. In addition, when looking at some scans from Ymir's Respect Thread: Spoiler Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Ymir is a smaller titan, the larger ones can destroy such building structures just by ramming into them. We see this with Annie and Eren's fight- they're strong enough just by the sheer size to break thru the concrete/brick structures of the Church just by smashing into it. Spoiler This happened by the incidental accident of Annie falling. Weight for weight, other 15m Titans the corps fight are no different- it's a much more dangerous and destructive risk than the small ground brick ground dismantling your panels displayed. Also,

ThePickler said: "quite badly damaged" Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Did you mean to show another page? Those Titans don't look like they're really affected or seriously harmed at all. The one that got his eyes hurt maybe - eyes are squishy afterall, but the rest just look mildly annoyed and hurt. (I think one has a nosebleed?) It's also as much to do with the bricks as Ymir's strength being able to bash the smaller titans around. Also you're comparing a brick chucked at someone's head to a hand actively clutching and applying pressure to break one. Consider for a moment both Titans and Giants are stronger than bricks - If you have a square block of clay, which is what bricks are to them and you throw it at someone's head, and squeeze it while ramming thru it the former is going to leave the brick intact while pressure applied to the latter will dent and break it more likely. Spoiler Comparing it to the Giants, the Giants not only break the bricks when impacting them, they are actually undamaged by that, which would seem to indicate that they're quite a fair bit tougher than regular Titans (though lacking in the regeneration) The way I would put it, physically the Giants have weaker pure stats (Size, thickness, mass) to comparable Titans. They're tougher than 'weaker' Titans that are Ymir sized but not most weight for weight. They likely have the advantage in muscle mass and intelligence, but they cannot even say they do in durability due to Titan's regeneration and (Typical) inability to feel pain. They may potentially have greater 'strength' in the sense that their intelligence allows them to actually throw punches and concentrate intense physical activity, whereas even the (larger) Titans are sluggish, mentally feeble and basically feral.

ThePickler said: In addition, Tang Sanzang's hits easily send people flying away hard enough to send chunks of a solid stone pillar flying, and they were totally ineffective at hurting the Giants. Thus I am uncertain on whether the steel blades could cut into the Giants, which is the main reason I included the Thunder Spears and Eren. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

You're comparing striking power (Punching someone into pebbles of debris and unable to elbow them) with cutting power and comparative hardness. Is the character who attacked the Giants with his elbow actually able to break steel or something? Could his blunt force attacks do more damage to a titan that a Titanium blade failed to do? Or theoretically that the Survey Corp's swords could do to these giants? The other biggest obstacle again is the size factor. Eren is 15m+ tall, and as I said the Giants seem to be 5-10m types at most. Weight for weight, Eren in Attack Titan could tear them apart like, well dwarfs really. Last edited: Dec 15, 2018

ThePickler

brandypang said: Cutting =/= Damaging Click to expand... Click to shrink...

That doesn't make any sense- cutting something is damaging it.

brandypang said: Keep in mind the thickness of the Nape that Sasha needs to get to and cut out is buried literally only a few centimeters deep (That's an abnormally small Titan compared to must, almost human sized) An axe that Sasha is using, under any ordinary circumstances if used on a normal human being would take their head cut off or decapitate their neck. And Sasha cannot even use it to cut in a few centimeters. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

That's a woodcutting axe. Beheading humans is actually quite difficult, given the human body's design to, well, not die. In fact, executioners used axes custom built to decapitate people. They were very thin, with a broad edge. The axe Sasha used is a splitting axe (as evidenced how she took it from a woodchopping stump), which would not be able to decapitate someone easily.

brandypang said: Titans have the advantage over the Survey Corps being extremely large, and also abnormally thick. It's like cutting thru thick rubber foam, even if your iron sword can cut lighter materials the thickness of the material is still difficult to cut, that's the reason they need such ultrahard weapons. I don't see the Corps having too much trouble making clean cuts here, it should be much easier for the Survey Corps to use their weapons here against smaller, lighter and less bodily abnormal opponents. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I'm not arguing that the swords are not necessary- the way you worded your original statement where ultrasteel was needed to cut them properly I felt did not represent everything quite accurately- you clarified it now that you mean that they're just really thick and kind of difficult to cut through, which is something I agree with.

brandypang said: Ymir is a smaller titan, the larger ones can destroy such building structures just by ramming into them. We see this with Annie and Eren's fight- they're strong enough just by the sheer size to break thru the concrete/brick structures of the Church just by smashing into it. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

You did not make that point in your original post, and it seemed an incredibly moot point to point out Ymir pulling bricks out as a feat when it's much weaker than someone shoulder ramming a hole through a brick wall. Again, I'm not disagreeing they're Titan-level, simply pointing out the flaws in comparing Ymir's Titan to the Giants- the Giants are stronger from what I've seen.

brandypang said: Did you mean to show another page? Those Titans don't look like they're really affected or seriously harmed at all. The one that got his eyes hurt maybe - eyes are squishy afterall, but the rest just look mildly annoyed and hurt. (I think one has a nosebleed?) It's also as much to do with the bricks as Ymir's strength being able to bash the smaller titans around. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Well, they can regenerate, so I suppose they aren't "seriously harmed", but you can clearly see them bleeding quite a bit. Xi Xing Ji Giants smash right through the bricks and break them without any harm whatsoever, no blood, no bruising we can see, nothing- this indicates that they're tougher than the Titans when it comes to resisting being hurt. In addition, it IS Ymir's strength hurting them, but the bricks aren't damaged- I mentioned that the bricks were left intact and that would imply that they're not being thrown hard enough to break them to pieces.

brandypang said: Also you're comparing a brick chucked at someone's head to a hand actively clutching and applying pressure to break one. Consider for a moment both Titans and Giants are stronger than bricks - If you have a square block of clay, which is what bricks are to them and you throw it at someone's head, and squeeze it while ramming thru it the former is going to leave the brick intact while pressure applied to the latter will dent and break it more likely. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

What? No I'm not- the Giants aren't "actively clutching and applying pressure" to the bricks. The scan showed them straight up shoulder ramming into walls, punching down on bricks, and slamming down Tang Sanzang onto stone tiles hard enough to shatter them. There is nothing like clutching and applying pressure- they're straight up impacting them.

brandypang said: The way I would put it, physically the Giants have weaker pure stats (Size, thickness, mass) to comparable Titans. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

For clarification purposes, you mean Titans of the 5-10m class, or something larger by "comparable"?

brandypang said: They likely have the advantage in muscle mass and intelligence, but they cannot even say they do in durability due to Titan's regeneration and (Typical) inability to feel pain. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I think there needs to be some clarification- I consider durability the ability of someone to get hit by something and not be damaged by it, I do not factor into account the regeneration. I consider that to be something slightly different, a very important factor yes, but not "durability" exactly. In that vein I think the Giants are a bit more durable than Titans, but not able to regenerate. I know some other Spacebattlers have also used similar differentiation between durability and regeneration- they often point out Wolverine as having incredible regen for example, but not as impressive durability. I hope that clears up a few things.

brandypang said: You're comparing striking power (Punching someone into pebbles of debris and unable to elbow them) with cutting power and comparative hardness. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

The only difference between something cutting someone and something not being able to do so is the surface area of the hit and the force behind it. A blunt object can stab someone, if there is enough force behind it. In fact, force needed to rupture organs and break skin is usually measured in kPa (force over a surface area), there is no divide between sharp or blunt. I personally dislike dividing between the two, but we see it in fiction a lot someone has great resistance to one and not the other, so I suppose there is a difference between the two in fiction.

brandypang said: Is the character who attacked the Giants with his elbow actually able to break steel or something? Could his blunt force attacks do more damage to a titan that a Titanium blade failed to do? Or theoretically that the Survey Corp's swords could do to these giants? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

.....Actually checking back, yes, he was able deform a steel (or some other metal) shield severely by punching it. Spoiler

brandypang said: Or theoretically that the Survey Corp's swords could do to these giants? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Hm, looking back again, they do have some more feats of durability, though they relied on scaling and thus I didn't want to post them as it'd require too many images in the post (as that was to give a more basic rundown of all abilities). Spoiler They don't seem particularly injured by Zhu Bajie's rake. Zhu Bajie in that scan is physically superior to his younger brother when he's in that form. His younger brother when wielding the rake was capable of piercing solid stone with the rake. (Note: The first image shows the piercing, the second and third shows Zhu Bajie overpowering his brother.) Spoiler

brandypang said: The other biggest obstacle again is the size factor. Eren is 15m+ tall, and as I said the Giants seem to be 5-10m types at most. Weight for weight, Eren in Attack Titan could tear them apart like, well dwarfs really. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yes, that is actually quite a severe factor. I imagine it'd be like fighting several children in kindergarten, albeit ones with the brains and combat willingness of adults.

JoshuaPromise

ThePickler said: That doesn't make any sense- cutting something is damaging it. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Not for Titan's its not. They don't feel pain or suffer any external damage (It's impossible to rupture organs, bleed them out, or deal any damage even by stabbing/cutting them outside the Nape) Even without factoring regeneration, a massive cut of their tendons doesn't impair their movements at all, unless you repeatedly severe the muscles. The Giants here don't seem to have that advantage.

ThePickler said: That's a woodcutting axe. Beheading humans is actually quite difficult, given the human body's design to, well, not die. In fact, executioners used axes custom built to decapitate people. They were very thin, with a broad edge. The axe Sasha used is a splitting axe (as evidenced how she took it from a woodchopping stump), which would not be able to decapitate someone easily. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I'll concede to the point that maybe she wouldn't have been able to decapitate him, even if he were fully human. Although the lack of damage shows weaker iron weapons do little to harm them, even with a thin few centimeters of skin needing cutting and her trying a dozen chops without really breaking them.

ThePickler said: You did not make that point in your original post, and it seemed an incredibly moot point to point out Ymir pulling bricks out as a feat when it's much weaker than someone shoulder ramming a hole through a brick wall. Again, I'm not disagreeing they're Titan-level, simply pointing out the flaws in comparing Ymir's Titan to the Giants- the Giants are stronger from what I've seen. Well, they can regenerate, so I suppose they aren't "seriously harmed", but you can clearly see them bleeding quite a bit. Xi Xing Ji Giants smash right through the bricks and break them without any harm whatsoever, no blood, no bruising we can see, nothing- this indicates that they're tougher than the Titans when it comes to resisting being hurt. In addition, it IS Ymir's strength hurting them, but the bricks aren't damaged- I mentioned that the bricks were left intact and that would imply that they're not being thrown hard enough to break them to pieces. What? No I'm not- the Giants aren't "actively clutching and applying pressure" to the bricks. The scan showed them straight up shoulder ramming into walls, punching down on bricks, and slamming down Tang Sanzang onto stone tiles hard enough to shatter them. There is nothing like clutching and applying pressure- they're straight up impacting them. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

To rephrase, the difference here is the circumstances, in Ymir's situation the Brick has Ymir's strength and momentum behind it when thrown. The Titans are stationary. In the Giant's case, the giants have their strength and speed mowing thru the bricks. The bricks are stationary. What's being impacted on takes the brunt of the damage, equal yet opposite force and all of newton's law and whatnot. We see titans able to break brick just by running into it, yet when these dumb ones are hit with bricks it still hurts. We see the giants able to break brick by ramming or punching thru it, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't take as much damage if Ymir threw bricks at them. (Which, really is minimal for both Titans and Giants)

For clarification purposes, you mean Titans of the 5-10m class, or something larger by "comparable"? I think there needs to be some clarification- I consider durability the ability of someone to get hit by something and not be damaged by it, I do not factor into account the regeneration. I consider that to be something slightly different, a very important factor yes, but not "durability" exactly. In that vein I think the Giants are a bit more durable than Titans, but not able to regenerate. I know some other Spacebattlers have also used similar differentiation between durability and regeneration- they often point out Wolverine as having incredible regen for example, but not as impressive durability. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I mean by the 5-10m class. Size and width matters here. The ultrasteel swords couldn't even cut limbs of the largest 15m titans because they were just too wide, they were strong enough to sweep clean thru but the surface area was too much to get them in 1 hit. It's like using a chainsaw to cut off the neck a giraffe vs a grizzly bear, there's more meat resisting there. Giant's don't have that setback here. I consider durability the ability to resist equivalent damage and continue fighting, whereas an experienced Survey Corps member cannot even hold a sword long and wide enough to cut a 15m titan's neck or limbs, the giants (atleast it seems) have small enough bodies that they lack that resistance. Their body structures also lack the painless, illogically functionless immortal zombie-like nature that Titan's do. a)If you shoot an ordinary person with a shotgun and he dies, that's his level of resistance. b)If you shoot a zombie in the face with the same shotgun and he doesn't die, I consider that part of their durability. c)And if you shoot a skyscraper sized Godzilla with the exact same shotgun and it barely scratches him, that too shows the extent of is durability is much great than a humans. In which I'd rank their durability C>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>B>>A The intelligence/sapience factor is a huge breaker here for the Survey Corps and what adds to their opponent's strength in this fight. Do you know how strong a 15m Titan really is compared to the Survey Corps? Annie with her body alone was able to completely decimate nearly all of them, but since Titans are mindless they don't know how to use that strength in any intentional way (Punch, kick, squash, crush ect), since they lack the knowledge to even fight back. A mindless Giant would become fodder for the SC just because they'd lose knowledge of how to use their strength alone. Their intelligence more than makes up for their size.

ThePickler said: .....Actually checking back, yes, he was able deform a steel (or some other metal) shield severely by punching it. Spoiler Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Not a bad feat. Do we have any of him punching a Giant directly? The earlier ones only show his elbow jabbing one, which is a much weaker use of force then the sort of punch he seems to be using on that shield.

ThePickler said: Hm, looking back again, they do have some more feats of durability, though they relied on scaling and thus I didn't want to post them as it'd require too many images in the post (as that was to give a more basic rundown of all abilities). Spoiler They don't seem particularly injured by Zhu Bajie's rake. Zhu Bajie in that scan is physically superior to his younger brother when he's in that form. His younger brother when wielding the rake was capable of piercing solid stone with the rake. (Note: The first image shows the piercing, the second and third shows Zhu Bajie overpowering his brother.) Spoiler Click to expand... Click to shrink...

The panels show them about as injured by the iron rake as the titan's were from getting hit with bricks, bleeding and mildly irritated but not really incapacitated, or even slowed down in any way. Given that I can take it to accept they're stronger than Iron generally - they're about Titan's equal when it comes to hardness, but lesser in durability because of the size+zombie factor alone.

ThePickler said: Yes, that is actually quite a severe factor. I imagine it'd be like fighting several children in kindergarten, albeit ones with the brains and combat willingness of adults. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yeah, with Eren on their side I don't see them losing. You didn't say the Giants have knowledge of the Titan weakness, so they'll keep trying to go for raw blunt force attacks and be unable to get past his regeneration. Without Eren, they'd get overwhelmed once the Giants approach tripple digits. Another advantage the Survey Corps have is prep and mobility. They have both horses and 3DG, and 24 hours to set traps, fortify formations and strategize. The giants are at a disadvantage going in given the SC can just climb atop the walls and take their time picking the giants off, repositioning cannons and retreating whenever necessary. Last edited: Dec 15, 2018

ThePickler

brandypang said: Not for Titan's its not. They don't feel pain or suffer any external damage (It's impossible to rupture organs, bleed them out, or deal any damage even by stabbing/cutting them outside the Nape) Even without factoring regeneration, a massive cut of their tendons doesn't impair their movements at all, unless you repeatedly severe the muscles. The Giants here don't seem to have that advantage. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

"Damaging" https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&q=Damaging That's what I'm using as a definition for damaging, which cutting counts as. Now if you mean long lasting in damage, that's different. Again, I think we're using different definitions here, so let's clarify what exactly we all mean.

brandypang said: I'll concede to the point that maybe she wouldn't have been able to decapitate him, even if he were fully human. Although the lack of damage shows weaker iron weapons do little to harm them, even with a thin few centimeters of skin needing cutting and her trying a dozen chops without really breaking them. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

That's a fair assessment.

brandypang said: To rephrase, the difference here is the circumstances, in Ymir's situation the Brick has Ymir's strength and momentum behind it when thrown. The Titans are stationary. In the Giant's case, the giants have their strength and speed mowing thru the bricks. The bricks are stationary. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

That actually will not factor too much- a single brick can only withstand a certain amount of pressure before it breaks. Whether it's being the mover or moving, doesn't change it. A processed log doesn't suddenly change in strength depending on whether it's moving or not.

brandypang said: What's being impacted on takes the brunt of the damage, equal yet opposite force and all of newton's law and whatnot. We see titans able to break brick just by running into it, yet when these dumb ones are hit with bricks it still hurts. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

We see Titan Shifters and larger Titans able to break brick just by running into it, whereas the smaller ones seem to get their tissue damaged (not to too severe a degree to debilitate them) by the bricks.

brandypang said: We see the giants able to break brick by ramming or punching thru it, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't take as much damage if Ymir threw bricks at them. (Which, really is minimal for both Titans and Giants) Click to expand... Click to shrink...

They wouldn't if the bricks were not thrown hard enough to damage them. It's not like Ymir throwing them suddenly makes the bricks super hard or resilient. Keep in mind, that the object has an upper limit on what it can actually take in terms of pressure (kPa). Though it may be that the bricks' edges/corners hit the giants when Ymir threw them, which would likely focus the force onto a very small area and likely cause more scraping/cutting wounds instead as opposed to charging into a wall where you only hit the flat sides of the bricks, so I suppose there's that factor I haven't taken into account.

brandypang said: I mean by the 5-10m class. Size and width matters here. The ultrasteel swords couldn't even cut limbs of the largest 15m titans because they were just too wide, they were strong enough to sweep clean thru but the surface area was too much to get them in 1 hit. It's like using a chainsaw to cut off the neck a giraffe vs a grizzly bear, there's more meat resisting there. Giant's don't have that setback here. I consider durability the ability to resist equivalent damage and continue fighting, whereas an experienced Survey Corps member cannot even hold a sword long and wide enough to cut a 15m titan's neck or limbs, the giants (atleast it seems) have small enough bodies that they lack that resistance. Their body structures also lack the painless, illogically functionless immortal zombie-like nature that Titan's do. a)If you shoot an ordinary person with a shotgun and he dies, that's his level of resistance. b)If you shoot a zombie in the face with the same shotgun and he doesn't die, I consider that part of their durability. c)And if you shoot a skyscraper sized Godzilla with the exact same shotgun and it barely scratches him, that too shows the extent of is durability is much great than a humans. In which I'd rank their durability C>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>B>>A The intelligence/sapience factor is a huge breaker here for the Survey Corps and what adds to their opponent's strength in this fight. Do you know how strong a 15m Titan really is compared to the Survey Corps? Annie with her body alone was able to completely decimate nearly all of them, but since Titans are mindless they don't know how to use that strength in any intentional way (Punch, kick, squash, crush ect), since they lack the knowledge to even fight back. A mindless Giant would become fodder for the SC just because they'd lose knowledge of how to use their strength alone. Their intelligence more than makes up for their size. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I see, that's what you mean by durability. Carry on then.

brandypang said: Not a bad feat. Do we have any of him punching a Giant directly? The earlier ones only show his elbow jabbing one, which is a much weaker use of force then the sort of punch he seems to be using on that shield. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

1: I'm not so certain on elbow jabbing being weaker than a punch- elbows for example lose less kinetic energy through the kinetic chain (as they are much shorter than a punch, they accelerate faster due to the smaller moment arm, and travel through less loose joints- shoulder as opposed to shoulder, elbow, wrist). In addition, elbows are MUCH harder than fists because they're composed of only two bones, as opposed to the many small bones of the hand where the joints can absorb the force of the hit. Also the elbow tip has a very small surface area. 2: Tang Sanzang does punch a giant in the nose, multiple times as evident by how the closeup has his left hand hitting, but it zooms out to his right arm hitting him as well. It doesn't do anything to it from what we can see: (ignore the top half of the first page, it's from an earlier scene and it cuts back to Tang Sanzang) Spoiler

brandypang said: The panels show them about as injured by the iron rake as the titan's were from getting hit with bricks, bleeding and mildly irritated but not really incapacitated, or even slowed down in any way. Given that I can take it to accept they're stronger than Iron generally - they're about Titan's equal when it comes to hardness, but lesser in durability because of the size+zombie factor alone. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

I do not find this statement particularly disagreeable.

brandypang said: Yeah, with Eren on their side I don't see them losing. You didn't say the Giants have knowledge of the Titan weakness, so they'll keep trying to go for raw blunt force attacks and be unable to get past his regeneration. Without Eren, they'd get overwhelmed once the Giants approach tripple digits. Another advantage the Survey Corps have is prep and mobility. They have both horses and 3DG, and 24 hours to set traps, fortify formations and strategize. The giants are at a disadvantage going in given the SC can just climb atop the walls and take their time picking the giants off, repositioning cannons and retreating whenever necessary. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Eren has a limit on the stamina of his Titanized form, does he not? Plus, does his regeneration not slowly get slower and slower the more he is forced to regenerate? I would not say that either side is given the ability to interfere with the battlefield beforehand like the SC setting up traps and fortifying formations in the town- otherwise the giants could, for example, smash down all the buildings so that there's nothing for the 3DMG to latch onto that's not them. Also cannons? I don't remember those being on the wall in Shiganshina: Spoiler I don't see any, didn't they dismantle them once Shiganshina fell?

Kenta789

Aren't the Survey corps swords less super strong and more super sharp? IIRC they are actually pretty fragile being less swords and more giant razor blades.

ThePickler

Kenta789 said: Aren't the Survey corps swords less super strong and more super sharp? IIRC they are actually pretty fragile being less swords and more giant razor blades. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Yeah, they're more or less very sharp. However, even though they're very hard, they're brittle and shatter or crack apart quite easily, which is why they need to be continuously replaced. You must log in or register to reply here. Share: Share

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