Master/slave Cylinder Or Clutch Problem? - VW Vortex

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#1 · Aug 29, 2006 I tried posting this in the manual transmission forum, but no one there seems to know anything.

I'm trying to figure out if my car has a problem with the master or slave cylinder, or if it's a problem with the clutch itself. It can be difficult to shift into first at a stop, sometimes feeling like the shifter's just hitting a wall, sometimes it goes in halfway and won't go any further. This is intermittent though... sometimes it does go in smoothly... then as a test I'll take it out of gear, push in the clutch again, and it'll be difficult to put in gear again...

The halfway-into-gear thing happened today trying to shift into reverse. The shift from first to second is rough, really notchy, almost like it wants to grind. That's always been the notchiest though ever since I bought my car in Feb., but never this bad. Shifting into third, but moreso fifth is also usually notchy. I noticed that if I'm shifting at around 4000-4200 rpm, it will go into second pretty smooth. Weird. Downshifts are almost always perfectly smooth. I want to mention that on a long road trip in June on a retardedly hot day, I drove for about 4 hours at around 80mph and then waited in a long line of traffic at my exit. I was waiting a lot in neutral, and when I'd go to shift, it wouldn't want to go into gear... that "hitting a wall" feeling again... to get into first I'd have to work the shifter back and forth between first and second, and after a few times it would go in, accompanied by a "clunk" sound from the engine bay. I also got a grind at about 5000rpm shifting from 1st to 2nd after traffic got moving. It never did any of those things before that day, and it's never done it since. I haven't been on a long road trip since though. I just bled my clutch with a power bleeder. A load of dirty looking green fluid came out... Broke mentioned in another thread that something called "hydraulic system mineral oil" is green in color... DOT4 is supposed to be clear or amber. I dunno if this is that mineral oil crap, but I'm guessing it could've damaged my master and/or slave's internals, causing weird intermittent problems if it was indeed the wrong fluid... Any opinions? Clutch hydraulics? Clutch? Pressure plate? Sorry that was so long. See less See more Preview image for a collapsed post.

2 Sort by Oldest first Oldest first Newest first Most reactions 1 2 #2 · Aug 29, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) A broken pressure plate will make it very hard to change gear i had a similar problem changed the slave master bled the system didnt do anything then took out the tranny and found the rivets in my pressure plate had snapped. #3 · Aug 29, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (mocas) All right.... crap

Anyone else have something to add? #4 · Aug 29, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) I know it's a lot to read guys, but come on... help me out here.

#5 · Aug 30, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) ttt No one other than mocas has had a similar problem? #6 · Aug 31, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) I have had this problem two or three times cant remember now. First time was the my slave cylinder my clutch wouldnt come back up had that replaced worked fine for a bit. Then i started having a hard time putting it into second gear and occasionally it would grind going into third it eventually got really bad and i could not change gear unless i turned off the car and put it into gear. Opened tranny my pressure plate was twisted and broke off some of the rivets that hold it in place. I then put in a brand new spec stage 2+ clutch and pressure plate installed it drove around for about 1000 miles to have the exact same problem again with the pressure plate. Im guessing its due to high rpm shifting or downshifting that causes them to break so easily. #7 · Sep 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (mocas) Damn, that sucks. When the shift into second was giving you problems, would it just not go in... or would it just feel really clunky and notchy like it wanted to grind? Was it hard to put into first from a standstill? How long did it take for the problem to develop fully, to the point where you couldn't shift? Do you remember if you could go through the gears smoothly with the car off? (I think) I read in another thread that you can check your PP's rivets by taking out that rubber plug from on top of the trans and turning the engine over slowly... is that true? Sorry for racking your brain.

#8 · Sep 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) Ya i could still put it into second but it was a mission definitely felt tight like there was something in the way. If the car was off the tranny felt fine and it took about i believe a week we bleed the slave master i believe and thats when it got really bad to the point that for you to put it into gear you would have to turn the car off or else it would grind. Im not too sure about checking the PP rivets without taking the tranny i cant really say you can or cant but it would be great if you could allot less hassles. Does your clutch pedal ever get stuck on the floor ? #9 · Sep 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (mocas) Nah, it never gets stuck to the floor. The clutch pedal feels fine to me. I was reading some other posts from people who had pressure plate failures and a lot of them said the car would creep with the clutch all the way in... did yours do that? I think I'm going to go to a mechanic in an hour or two to have the car driven. I'll see what they think about it. #10 · Sep 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) No my clutch pedal was always fine never got any creep just had a hard time putting it into gear or downshifting. Ya you probably should and go in the car with them so they feel what your talking about. #11 · Sep 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (mocas) I ended up not taking the car in today. For the hell of it I bled the clutch out again with my pressure bleeder, and now it feels a tiny bit better. I was pumping the clutch after I bled it and there was a loud creaking noise coming from the engine bay. It made the sound during the clutch pedal's entire throw...

I'll see what they say tomorrow. #12 · Sep 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) Ya mine made that same sound but after we bled it my mechanic gave it a few power shifts and finished it off. If anything is broken on the pressure plate its those stupid rivets i had to pressure plates changed in two months. #13 · Sep 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (mocas) Damn... well, I've been babying mine. Shifting really gently, and rev matching + double clutching a lot. What brand pressure plates were you running? I did a search and people here seem to be having both good and bad experiences the popular brands.... that goes for pressure plates, clutch discs, and flywheels. This makes me really nervous. I'm not sure what to go with if the pressure plate really is the problem. #14 · Sep 7, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) Well i had stock clutch and pressure plate on the car the first time i broke the rivets on the PP. I have a Spec Stage II+ Clutch and PP and got my Flywheel lightened and balanced im guessing the balancing part didnt get done properly because my car vibrates too much. I snapped the new pressure plate a month after i got it installed and i didnt bang gears either. #15 · Sep 7, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) i've had a cracked clutch disc all the way on one side before with similiar problems. #16 · Oct 2, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (pjdubman) great thread as always on the vortex just encountered a similar sounding issue this weekend (at the track!). finished the 2nd 30minute session and everything seemed fine. went to drive out for the 3rd session and every gear was hard to get into, took time and force. the problem only got worse, now the only way to get into 1st is to shut the car off. i hope its only fluid, or the master/slave area. i really don't want to replace the pressure plate. if anyone wants a race preped 95 vr6 in need of a high performance clutch/pressure plate let me know!

summary of issues: impossible to shift into 1st with the engine running 2nd, 3rd, and 5th difficult, sometimes easier with rev matching sometimes a grind/clunck when it does shift into gear ok, here are the weird two, when at a complete stop, the clutch petal down to the floor, try to get into 1st or 2nd and the car creeps forward. and the 2nd weird symptom (maybe something in the short shift i put in) the car will now find its way into reverse without pushing the shifter down when i am trying to find 1st if anyone has a suggestion it would be greatly appreaciated. otherwise hopefully someone will find the symptoms helpful once/if i find the root problem. take care everyone, dave #17 · Oct 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (drgig) That is not a slave cylinder issues, I just did my slave because my clutch pedal would not come back up. #18 · Oct 5, 2006 Re: Master/slave cylinder or clutch problem? (schippa2) I have a similar problem... but what I find is that when I pump the brakes and the clutch 5 times each it will go in with some resistance but it will engage... My mechanic suggested that since I ugraded my braking system it is probably the master cylinder... going from 2 piston brake setup to 8 piston on the front clip. So I am going to upgrade the MC and see if that works. #19 · Oct 7, 2006 Well, nice thread... I'm also having issues like this. to be specific: - Driving on 3rd at 6500, about to shift and DANG! I engaged 2nd!!! car over rev a lot, bla bla.... inmediatly after this, I got shifting problems like this ones : 1- most problematic issue I HAVE, is I can't shift at high RPM, if you're at 5k and want to shift It's like you've a wall in front of that gear... when revs go down, the shift will get in, but just after reaching 3k rpm or so. 2- but with car parked, everything engage okey, sometimes reverse cost a little. 3- driving on 2nd, really slow, and wanting to downshift to 1st, it's impossible, I've to practically brake to be able to engage 1st. 4- feels like... if the clutch keeps accopled with the plate or something, and dont get completly out when you press the pedal... other feelings are like the shifting is like hard like if there were things in middle, sometimes when waiting downrevs (5k....) and try with a lil more effort to engage say 3rd. it engages like half gear or so... then the rest.... It's really weird... but my clutch/pressureplata/flywheel is BRAND NEW!!! dont have even 500km on them... and unfortunally I shifted 2nd instead of 4th, and starting with this problem..... dont this **** have guarantee or something ???

Btw..... I've VR6 clutch conversion on my 1.8T, clutch and pressure plate were the SACHS one for VR6. Modified by casgti at 11:07 PM 10-6-2006 #20 · Dec 10, 2006 Re: (casgti) Did you ever get this figured out? I am having the exact symptoms as you.. Hard to get in/out of gear, but very intermittent... only seems to happen after a long drive Car will move forward a bit when put into first gear WITH THE PEDAL TO THE FLOOR! THe crazy thing is that I jyst had the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate AND slave cylinder replaced... so I guess that means that it MUST be the master... #21 · Dec 11, 2006 Re: (gintaras) I had this problem too when I first bought my car, I replaced the master cylinder and it stopped the shifting problem, but now the pedal still sinks on the floor so my slave is going too. I also think I need to bleed my clutch system. #22 · Dec 12, 2006 Re: (PunaVr6(Haole)) yea im having a similar issue with my vr-t.. anytime i get into boost and i shift, the pedal will only come up half way, then comes back after 30 seconds or so of driving, replacing the slave cylinder tomorrow so ill see how that goes #23 · Dec 12, 2006 Re: (sparkalot) Well, replaced the master tonight, and I think the problem is gone!!!! I didn't experience any of the issues like previously, first and reverse went in like butter, and taking it out of first and reverse were equally easy.. I haven'y put a lot of miles on it nor did I even git it all warmed up.. but it seems to have gone away after replacing the master cylinder. Oh, and if you replace the master cylinder.. use a power bleeder to bleed the system.. a friend and I tried for 30 minutes to bleed it manually, and it was just giving us a bunh of air, I think there was an air pocket in there that had to be forced out under pressure.. #24 · Dec 16, 2006 Re: (gintaras) slave didnt work for me.. TTT with this, i think my pressure plate might have ****ted on me? #25 · Dec 18, 2006 Just a question but i am haveing pretty much the same **** happening to me... but my clutch pedal is like three quarters of the way to the floor even when my foot isnt on it... I have to stick my foot behind it to get it to come back up. i can feel when the clutch ingages and it isnt till its about a inch from the floor help me out. #26 · Dec 19, 2006 Re: (maleezer) doesn't sound slave related to me. i'd have to say pressure plate or clutch it's self. if it was the slave the pedal wouldn't come back up at all. i've had the slave go out so trust me, the slave would make the pedal go down and not come back up. if you do end up having a slave problem in the future you should replace the master and the slave at the same time. doing them both will save you time in the long run. good luck on your car man, sorry i couldn't be of more help. 1 2 This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread. Insert Quotes Post Reply

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