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 | BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > n52 most disapointing engine ever? |  |
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| 01-19-2011, 07:46 PM | #1 |
| 5erman Banned 35Rep 323Posts Drives: black 5 series Join Date: May 2009 Location: ohio iTrader: (0) | n52 most disapointing engine ever? So I am looking at the new line of engines coming out and looking back at the N52 and the engine it replaced and although technically it has some really cool items, functionally it seems like one of the most disapointing engines bmw ever made. In reality there was very very little performance improvement over the M54 I6 engine producing 225hp. The torque curve and power is very similar up to 6500 where the m54 stopped and the n52 has the advantage but to be honest how often do people drive at 6500 plus RPMS? not often. I feel the M54 came out and was a HUGE improvement in power over the outgoing engine. Then the N54/55 engine was a HUGE performance output. Now the turbo 4's are another leap of improvement with them being capable of putting out 300hp likely and they have more stock torque and almost equal hp to the N52. So while there is no doubt the technology is cool in the N52 I am wondering why it never did make a really functional difference. If you have driven an e46 330i and an N52 330i you realize there is very little difference in power. |
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| 01-19-2011, 08:14 PM | #2 |
dtc100 Lieutenant Colonel  28Rep 1,522Posts Drives: 2011 E90 328i 6AT non-sport Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Norcal iTrader: (0) | Quote: Originally Posted by 5erman  So I am looking at the new line of engines coming out and looking back at the N52 and the engine it replaced and although technically it has some really cool items, functionally it seems like one of the most disapointing engines bmw ever made. In reality there was very very little performance improvement over the M54 I6 engine producing 225hp. The torque curve and power is very similar up to 6500 where the m54 stopped and the n52 has the advantage but to be honest how often do people drive at 6500 plus RPMS? not often. I feel the M54 came out and was a HUGE improvement in power over the outgoing engine. Then the N54/55 engine was a HUGE performance output. Now the turbo 4's are another leap of improvement with them being capable of putting out 300hp likely and they have more stock torque and almost equal hp to the N52. So while there is no doubt the technology is cool in the N52 I am wondering why it never did make a really functional difference. If you have driven an e46 330i and an N52 330i you realize there is very little difference in power. | What is the performance improvement from N54 to N55? Some test showed there was even a slight downgrade. I guess you should say the N55 is even more disappointing. You can't compare N54 to N52, can you? |
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| 01-19-2011, 08:17 PM | #3 |
koreez88 Всем привет ;)  149Rep 3,358Posts Drives: Tesla Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (12) |  |
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| 01-19-2011, 08:42 PM | #4 |
e90pilot Freight Dawg   106Rep 2,103Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3) | Quote: | Originally Posted by koreez88 | +1 __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i | Sport Package | 6MT | Dinan Stage III suspension | Dinan exhaust | 330i manifold swap! Click here! | Active Autowerke tune | 135i Brake Calipers | Deiselboost caliper brackets | E46 M3 front rotors |
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| 01-19-2011, 09:12 PM | #5 |
Digitalinkartist MrSixSpeed  41Rep 920Posts Drives: e92 Garage Queen Join Date: May 2007 Location: ATL iTrader: (4) | Your not comparing apples to apples. You need to compare M52/54 2.5 to n52 and m54 3.0 to n54 for a true assessment of technological advances. And what about the N52 that was equipped in the e90 330's and z4 3.0si's that is considerable improvement Unfortunately every 328 is a detuned n52 variant. With gears, a tune, and some free flow n52 is considerably more respectable at street speeds. |
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| 01-19-2011, 10:03 PM | #6 |
AlpineSwift Colonel   78Rep 2,114Posts Drives: 2008 335Xi Coupé Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Castle Rock, CO iTrader: (3) | Quote: | Originally Posted by 5erman So I am looking at the new line of engines coming out and looking back at the N52 and the engine it replaced and although technically it has some really cool items, functionally it seems like one of the most disapointing engines bmw ever made. In reality there was very very little performance improvement over the M54 I6 engine producing 225hp. The torque curve and power is very similar up to 6500 where the m54 stopped and the n52 has the advantage but to be honest how often do people drive at 6500 plus RPMS? not often. I feel the M54 came out and was a HUGE improvement in power over the outgoing engine. Then the N54/55 engine was a HUGE performance output. Now the turbo 4's are another leap of improvement with them being capable of putting out 300hp likely and they have more stock torque and almost equal hp to the N52. So while there is no doubt the technology is cool in the N52 I am wondering why it never did make a really functional difference. If you have driven an e46 330i and an N52 330i you realize there is very little difference in power. |  __________________ E92 '08 335Xi 6AT - Cobb AP3 Tuned by MAC Autosport, Original Prototype Xi DOCRace 6266 Single Turbo Swap, VRSF CP w/Synapse BOV, VRSF 7" FMIC, BMS Cowl, H&R Coilovers, Renn Motorsport RS-51's, Stoptech Stage 2 Slotted, xHP Stage 3, Earl's Racing Oil Cooler, Turner Boost Gauge, M3 Lip Spoiler. Standing Mile Record Holder for Xi over a mile high: 168.2MPH @ 5512'; The Colorado Mile hosted by The US Mile. |
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| 01-19-2011, 11:27 PM | #7 |
| mike-y just another bmw douche bag 195Rep 3,640Posts Drives: 1.9L of fury Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (4) | the E46 330 doesn't make nearly as much low end torque as the E90 330. The E90 330 is noticeably more powerful, My friend has a '04 330i ZHP 6mt, and said the E90 330i he drove was noticeably faster. Actually, the E90 328i is on par, if not a tad better than the E46 330i, performance-wise. So the E90 base car is competes with the top of the line (non-M) E46. |
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| 01-19-2011, 11:35 PM | #8 |
| AlpineSwift Colonel 78Rep 2,114Posts Drives: 2008 335Xi Coupé Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Castle Rock, CO iTrader: (3) | Quote: | Originally Posted by mike-y the E46 330 doesn't make nearly as much low end torque as the E90 330. The E90 330 is noticeably more powerful, My friend has a '04 330i ZHP 6mt, and said the E90 330i he drove was noticeably faster. Actually, the E90 328i is on par, if not a tad better than the E46 330i, performance-wise. So the E90 base car is competes with the top of the line (non-M) E46. | Someone give this man a beer!  __________________ E92 '08 335Xi 6AT - Cobb AP3 Tuned by MAC Autosport, Original Prototype Xi DOCRace 6266 Single Turbo Swap, VRSF CP w/Synapse BOV, VRSF 7" FMIC, BMS Cowl, H&R Coilovers, Renn Motorsport RS-51's, Stoptech Stage 2 Slotted, xHP Stage 3, Earl's Racing Oil Cooler, Turner Boost Gauge, M3 Lip Spoiler. Standing Mile Record Holder for Xi over a mile high: 168.2MPH @ 5512'; The Colorado Mile hosted by The US Mile. |
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| 01-19-2011, 11:40 PM | #9 |
Express Major General    388Rep 8,688Posts Drives: 06 330i Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Promise Land iTrader: (17) Garage List2006 BMW 330i [8.30] | HAHAHAHHA i love this thread. Attached Images  |
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| 01-20-2011, 11:45 AM | #10 |
IancoleTX Dillo boxers  274Rep 3,360Posts Drives: 2019 M5C Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: USA iTrader: (14) | Dude for what it costs, how reliable it is, and where it stands in the product lineup, I am plenty happy with my n52-powered e92. "most disappointing engine ever" ?? get stuffed. __________________ 2019 M5C Matte MBB / Tartufo |
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| 01-20-2011, 11:53 AM | #11 |
3002 tii Lieutenant General  2498Rep 12,703Posts Drives: Z4 M, X5, GX460 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CT iTrader: (100) Garage ListE86 Z4 M [10.00]F15 X5 xDrive35i [9.17]F10 550i (Retired) [9.17]E85 Z4 M (Retired) [9.41]F25 X3 xDrive35i (R ... [9.43]E82 135is (Retired) [9.56]E90 328i xDrive (Re ... [9.25]E86 Z4 3.0si (Retired) [8.93] | Quote: | Originally Posted by AlpineSwift | +11111111111111111111111 __________________ Follow  for latest mods |
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| 01-20-2011, 12:41 PM | #12 |
LaLakers91tc Lieutenant Colonel  53Rep 1,860Posts Drives: BSM E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lawrenceville NJ iTrader: (5) | Quote: | Originally Posted by koreez88 | +2 5erman clearly just enjoys trolling the forums to piss everyone off And for the e46 330i to e90 330i difference, you are very wrong, I pull ~2 cars on average every time on e46 330i's __________________ Current 07 BSM E92 335i Previous SGM E90 330i (R.I.P.) |
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| 01-20-2011, 03:27 PM | #13 |
| 5erman Banned 35Rep 323Posts Drives: black 5 series Join Date: May 2009 Location: ohio iTrader: (0) | Wow a brilliant guy who said to compare the M54 NA 3.0 with a TT n54 engine. Nothing is similar except the numbers. A true comparison is teh N52 3 litre that replaced the M54 3 litre-both NA engines. I am not saying any of the engines discussed are on an "absolute" value better or worse. I am speaking relative to what it replaces. The N55 is not a huge improvement but it was not a replacement engine, rather just increment change like the N51 is of the N52. They are still in the same generation and thus the same for comparison. And you can think the M54 e46 had "lot less torque" but look at the numbers and dyno (google it) the fact is the torque is almost no different except for occuring 1k earlier which in reality doesnt matter since you dont spend any time at under 2k rpms. I am tlaking about the 255hp version too-not the detuned one. Disapointment to say the least |
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| 01-20-2011, 03:49 PM | #14 |
yakev724 Brigadier General  245Rep 3,563Posts Drives: 15 S3 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NYC iTrader: (49) | Quote: | Originally Posted by 5erman Wow a brilliant guy who said to compare the M54 NA 3.0 with a TT n54 engine. Nothing is similar except the numbers. A true comparison is teh N52 3 litre that replaced the M54 3 litre-both NA engines. I am not saying any of the engines discussed are on an "absolute" value better or worse. I am speaking relative to what it replaces. The N55 is not a huge improvement but it was not a replacement engine, rather just increment change like the N51 is of the N52. They are still in the same generation and thus the same for comparison. And you can think the M54 e46 had "lot less torque" but look at the numbers and dyno (google it) the fact is the torque is almost no different except for occuring 1k earlier which in reality doesnt matter since you dont spend any time at under 2k rpms. I am tlaking about the 255hp version too-not the detuned one. Disapointment to say the least | Banned  Only disappointment is me not being able to tune my N52 to the ~273 hp our UK brethren output... |
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| 01-20-2011, 04:03 PM | #15 |
SlicktopTTZ Captain   13Rep 685Posts Drives: 91 300ZX Twin-Turbo, 2010 135i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas iTrader: (0) | You can't buy a NA 3.0L street car motor for a low price and expect it to be very powerful.... Even the top-of-the-line 6 cylinder NA motors, S65, VQ37, VR6, etc are not that powerful. The N52 wasn't even designed to be a top-of-the-line NA performance motor. |
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| 01-20-2011, 04:15 PM | #16 |
twistedm3 Private   5Rep 50Posts Drives: E90 330i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0) | Quote: | Originally Posted by yakev724 Banned Only disappointment is me not being able to tune my N52 to the ~273 hp our UK brethren output... | .. gotta love their 12:1 compression vis our 10.7:1 |
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| 01-20-2011, 04:22 PM | #17 |
JL 325i straight^  27Rep 779Posts Drives: 325i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Baton Rouge, LA iTrader: (7) | Quote: | Originally Posted by LaLakers91tc +2 5erman clearly just enjoys trolling the forums to piss everyone off And for the e46 330i to e90 330i difference, you are very wrong, I pull ~2 cars on average every time on e46 330i's | +1 __________________  Wanting to sell. |
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| 01-20-2011, 04:27 PM | #18 |
| SlicktopTTZ Captain 13Rep 685Posts Drives: 91 300ZX Twin-Turbo, 2010 135i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas iTrader: (0) | Quote: | Originally Posted by twistedm3 .. gotta love their 12:1 compression vis our 10.7:1 | ....until you try to put some boost through it..... |
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| 01-20-2011, 04:58 PM | #19 |
| mike-y just another bmw douche bag 195Rep 3,640Posts Drives: 1.9L of fury Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (4) | Quote: | Originally Posted by 5erman And you can think the M54 e46 had "lot less torque" but look at the numbers and dyno I am tlaking about the 255hp version too-not the detuned one. Disapointment to say the least | The only disappointment is how lame your trolling is. But hey, whatever makes you feel good about yourself. Anyway, I've looked at the dynos, the E46 M54 barely gets to 200 lb/ft stock, and falls off quickly after it's peak @ 3500 rpm. And modded M54's usually made less power/torque than a stock N52 330: M54 Dynos http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86402 http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...BD_E46_325_330  The N52 routinley shows over 200ft lbs through most of it's rpm range, starting as low as 2000rpm. I spend more than 90% of my time below 3000rpm on my commute to/from work, so having a lower torque peak at 2700rpm is a lot better than 3500 rpm. N52 dynos    So a much better torque curve, in an engine that makes more power, is more fuel efficient, and gets better mileage than the M54. Yeah, huge disappointment. |
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| 01-20-2011, 07:40 PM | #20 |
Tiz113 Chief Sitting Bull  283Rep 6,072Posts Drives: 328xi E92 / LSB F90 M5 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (0) Garage List2019 BMW F90 [10.00]2007 328xi E92 [0.00] | Quote: | Originally Posted by koreez88 |  |
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| 01-20-2011, 07:48 PM | #21 |
Gavin@MMW Brigadier General  433Rep 3,879Posts Drives: MMW Supercharged E90 328i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 818/805 iTrader: (18) | Quote: | Originally Posted by Tiz113 | Lol is that the Fred Durst version? |
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| 01-20-2011, 08:02 PM | #22 |
| Tiz113 Chief Sitting Bull 283Rep 6,072Posts Drives: 328xi E92 / LSB F90 M5 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (0) Garage List2019 BMW F90 [10.00]2007 328xi E92 [0.00] | Quote: | Originally Posted by Craven 328 Lol is that the Fred Durst version? | yes sir! hahaha |
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