Please Explain The Difference In Using “Din” And “Rin” I

Home Dictionary Community Videos Teachers Games & Drills Reader Decks More Tools Log In Sign Up Home Dictionary Community Teachers Games & Drills Reader Decks More Log In Sign Up Forum Menu Recent Posts Search Forum Search Members Community Guidelines « Back12» Username Joined: X days ago # Comments: X,XXX Rating: X View Full Profile Contact by Private Message View Posts by: KennethC Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. Please explain the difference in using "Din" and "Rin" in Tagalog. Reply Tagamanila Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @KennethC "Rin" and "din" both mean "too/also". There is a rule to follow on when they should be used, but in reality we don't consciously observe the rule and as a result might not even be following it. So, the correct use of "rin" or "din" is no big deal. However, just for your information, the rule is this: Use "rin" if the word before it ends in a vowel (a, e, i, o, u) or a consonant that sounds like a vowel - "w" and "y". For the other letters, use "din". (The reason for "w" and "y" is because they can produce sounds like the vowels "u" and "i", respectively, as word endings. For example, "araw" may sound like "arau" and "bahay" may sound like "bahai"). Applying the rule, these are examples of how they should be used correctly: batA RinAmerikanO RinkatabI RinmalinaW RinkahoY Rin kapatiD DinmalakaS DintubiG Dintag-ulaN Din Maybe the rule was really based on which would be easier to pronounce after the preceding word. And maybe for that same reason also, it gets used based on one's personal unconscious choice. Reply Daoxin Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @tagamanila You unconsciously chose to change Din and Rin to Daw and Raw haha. The rules are the same for both, but OP might be a little thrown off. My partner was just talking about this yesterday. Even he wasn't aware of an actual rule and realized that sometimes he also uses the technically incorrect consonant. But as you said, it isnt really a big deal. You can hear people say either one in any situation almost. Reply FilipinoChatAdmin Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. Ahh...the dreaded D/R switch! @Tagamanila and @Daoxin gave good info and explanations above. I'll just add that sometimes it even happens to roots when conjugating a verb... Ex 1: Present tense of root "dating" conjugated to the present tense becomes "dumarating" (instead of dumadating -- the middle d switches to an r). Ex 2:The root "dumi" becomes "marumi" (instead of "madumi") to become the adjective for "dirty". I actually had to write a fair amount of code in the Dictionary Search functionality of this website to take into account the D/R switch phenomenon. Reply Tagamanila Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @Daoxin OMG! Hahaha! The rule applies to both "rin"/"din" and "raw"/"daw" that's why I guess my thoughts shifted to the other as I proceeded with the answer. Sorry about that. I corrected it already. Reply Tagamanila Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @FilipinoChatAdmin That's true, but we just end up saying "dumadating" and "madumi" too sometimes. It may really be up to how the tongue decides to behave at that moment. 😛😁 Reply emacarea Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @FilipinoChatAdmin Please correct me, but when you add MA- to a verb it becomes a noun correct? Like ganda beauty. Maganda beautiful. Tabo fat, matabo fat (noun)But since dirty is an adjective what purpose does the prefix MA- serve? Does adding MA- to dumi o rumi changes it noun? Ex. Ang lalaki may marumi kuwarto.Feedback is greatly appreciated. @Tagamanila feel free to get in on this I could use your expertise? Reply emacarea Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. And while we're on the subject, just to save myself from future hardships; can I get a list of words that has the D/R switch? I got rin, din, daw, raw, dumi, rumi, doon, roon, rito, dito ano pa? Could I get an explanation and when and how to use them in their proper forms? Reply FilipinoChatAdmin Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @emacarea You often (though not always) can add ma- to a root to create the adjective form of the root (not noun form). Maganda, mabilis, mataba (not matabo, for fat), matalino, etc. So...Marumi ang kwarto ng lalaki = The man's room is dirty. Marumi/dirty is an adjective describing the noun: the room/kwarto. And while we're on the subject, just to save myself from future hardships; can I get a list of words that has the D/R switch? I got rin, din, daw, raw, dumi, rumi, doon, roon, rito, dito ano pa? Could I get an explanation and when and how to use them in their proper forms? @emacarea I think Tagamanila gave a good explanation of when to apply the d/r switch, but that it's not always done consistently. As far as listing every possible case -- there are hundreds of times it could take effect, too many to list,... (it happens a lot, often enough that like I mentioned before, I needed to write some special programming code for this website's search functionality to recognize and handle the d/r switch properly). The most important thing is to know it exists. Often times I'll see a word and think "I have never seen the root of that word before..." and then I'll check for the d/r switch and realize that in fact I do know the root for that word...and then I can figure out the word meaning. Case in point, an example thought process for "marumi": 1.) "rumi" is the suspected root...but I don't know a root "rumi"...2.) But, if I try a d/r switch to "dumi" I know that root and that it is related to dirtiness 3.) Then adding back the ma prefix + root4.) I can figure out this is likely an adjective for dirty. (This thought process is helpful when reading, but obviously a little slow when trying to listen and comprehend...) Reply emacarea Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. Marumi ang kwarto ng lalaki = The man's room is dirty I see you rewrote the statement. Was the way I formatted the sentence wrong? You changed the focus, can you explain why? And I always get nouns and verb meanings mixed up. Nouns: person, place or thing. Verb= action or act. Adjectives describing the level or degree of noun. Adverb describing level or degree of a verb... I appreciate the correction's and help. Clarification is always been helpful in me understanding. And yes tagamanila did explain with vin consonant/vowel switch... I guess I was trying to be a little bit over comprehensive. I didn't realize how many d/r switches tagalog had. I found out by learning this delightful (and sometimes confusing- frustrating language) is that I had to remember elementary english basics to learn this language and apply them... bwesit! Lol Reply FilipinoChatAdmin Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. I see you rewrote the statement. Was the way I formatted the sentence wrong? You changed the focus, can you explain why? @emacarea I think it has an error, but maybe a native speaker can chime in on your original sentence, I'd rather be silent than accidentally steer you wrong... Reply Tagamanila Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @emacarea When you add the prefix MA to a root word, you will most likely come up with an adjective or possibly a verb. Root words, by themselves, may usually be nouns and sometimes be verbs or both. Not all root words can stand alone though. Root words: gandá (noun) = beautytabâ (noun) = fatdumí (noun) = dirtupô (noun) = the state of being seated (but may also be used as a verb as in "Upô!", which is the imperative "Sit!" or "Sit down!")layò (noun) = distance With "MA": magandá (adjective) = beautifulmatabâ (adjective) = fatmadumí/marumí (adjective) = dirtymaupô (verb) = to take a seat/to sit downmalayò (adjective) = farmálayò (verb) = to be at a distance as an effect of separation With regard to replacing the "d" with an "r" in some words, there is really no need to be too concerned about that. Retaining the "d" does not make a word wrong, but it may just be less often said that way. For example, as an adjective, we would most likely use "marumi" instead of "madumi" when we'd link it to another word - "maruming kuwarto" (dirty room). However, if we'd use "madumi", no one would say that it's wrong to do so because "maduming kuwarto" would mean exactly the same thing as "maruming kuwarto". As I said earlier, saying "maruming kuwarto" might just be easier to pronounce than "maduming kuwarto", hence, the tendency to use the former. I would also recommend the guideline given by FilipinoChatAdmin in searching for the meaning of a word in a dictionary. That is, if an "r" follows a "ma" and it's not listed, try changing that "r" to a "d". It may not be really be the case and, therefore, may not always work, but the possibility is there that the root word does start with a "d". Reply Tagamanila Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. "Ang lalaki may marumi kuwarto" is not a well-constructed Filipino sentence as it lacks coherence. It would be equivalent to saying, "The man there is dirty room" in English. Let's consider each word of that sentence: There are 2 entities - "lalaki" (man) and "kuwarto" (room). Either of them could have been the subject of the sentence. However, by having "ang" before "lalaki", it makes "lalaki" as the subject and "kuwarto" will become part of the predicate. (The rule: "Ang" introduces a common noun when used as the subject of a sentence). "May" can mean "there is" or "to have". In the absence of context, we would give it the "there is" meaning. "may aso" = there is a dog"may aso sa bahay" = there is a dog in the house"may aso si John" = John has a dog. "Marumi" is "dirty", but it can only function as an adjective (a modifier/describer) of "kuwarto" if it will be linked to it. In English, an adjective before a noun automatically becomes its modifier. So, "white" in "white house" is a modifier of "house". In Filipino, an adjective does not automatically modify a noun after it unless we use the linker "NA" to connect them. If we are to say "puti bahay", to us it would sound as awkward as "house white". But if we are to add a "na" between them, "puti na bahay", then we would understand that as "white house". (Note: "Puti na bahay" would be more commonly expressed as "puting bahay".) In fact, even if we now put the noun before the adjective, for as long as the "na" is between them, the meaning is the same - "puti na bahay"/"puting bahay" = "bahay na puti" = white house. Given that in the sentence you gave it began with "ang lalaki", that makes it the subject based on the rule stated above. For the sentence to make sense, the rest has got to be the predicate and the word "ay" is needed to link them. In other words, the sentence structure will follow the subject-predicate (active voice) form. The correct sentence then becomes: "Ang lalaki AY may maruming kuwarto" = The man has a dirty room. (Context gives "may" the "to have" meaning) The inverted (predicate-subject) order of that sentence would be: "May maruming kuwarto ang lalaki" = The man has a dirty room ("Ay" disappears in the predicate-subject order, but meaning is the same) Is that what you really wanted to say? Or is that how you wanted to say it? Maybe not and I guess that's why FilipinoChatAdmin also changed your sentence. Here's why. Note that I mentioned 2 entities above - man and room - and also said that either of them can be the subject of the sentence. 1. The MAN has a dirty room.2. The ROOM of the man/The man's ROOM is dirty. The Filipino sentence we have above translates to sentence #1. However, maybe it's sentence #2 that you really meant to say, i.e., the preferred subject (and therefore, the focus) is the "room" instead of the "man". Using "kuwarto" (room) as the subject now, the subject-predicate form of the sentence becomes: "Ang kuwarto ng lalaki AY marumi" = The room of the man/man's room is dirty. Putting that sentence in the inverted (predicate-subect) order, it becomes: "Marumi ang kuwarto ng lalaki" And that's the sentence that FilipinoChatAdmin gave you. It places the focus on "kuwarto", which I also believe should be the case and it follows the more common way now of expressing a Filipino sentence, which is in the predicate-subject form. BTW, the correct spelling of the word is "buwisit" or "bwisit". It's a Filipino expression that means "what a nuisance!" and may have the same effect as saying "damn it!" in English. If you'd say it directly at someone though, it would mean "you're a pest!" or "damn you!" and that might get you into trouble. 😀 Reply emacarea Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @Tagamanila Excellent explanation as always... I appreciate the proper correction. These details are helpful. I put the man as the focus as an example. I speak with filipinos on a daily basis. The way you explain is proper and grammatically correct, however as you know most filipinos aren't speaking in this way. In fact, I've been called "mayabang" for using grammatical correct tagalog or correcting minamahal ko. She gets very upset with me, cuz she knows it's not proper but siya NA masanay... It's frustrating TagaManila.... cuz I want to speak proper tag but nobody else is speaking this way. I (for the most part) speak grammatically correct english. Therefore it's only natural to speak proper in another language. Everybody's an expert of tag, everybody wants to correct you. What I learned is speaking filipino is subjective to the speaker, area, social and culture norms. When I was corrected I was confused? Because I'm wondering are we teaching perfect and proper tagalog (which hardly anybody's using) or we teaching to be understood?Because at the end of the day, that seems to be the "norm". Filipinos don't speak to be proper but to be understood. There seems to be no expectation to be proper when speaking Filipino why do I feel foreigners are held to a different or higher standard? Anyway, I'm aware there are many different ways and spellings of words. You can easily interchange I with E and vice versa. Ex. Lalaki o Lalake same meaning and different spelling. I appreciate your attention to Detail. And I recognize your intellect and talent with both english and tagalog. Ang galing galing sobrang mag ingles po! And am I correct in my understanding of E and I being interchangeable? Talking with many different filipinos from different parts and dialects gives me a unique perspective. And I'm not your typical learner, i've learned and advanced a lot in tagalog in just short 7 months. I can have full conversation in tagalog. I'm not there at the level I wish to be tagamanila but I can promise you a conversation with me you'd change your mind about medyo or medjo tulungan sakin mag tagalog??? Lol wrote a lot thank you again for the corrections and clarification. I look forward to more. Reply emacarea Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @Tagamanila I also wanted to add one of the first rules about tagalog is NEVER EVER TRY TO TRANSLATE WORD FOR WORD. English and Tagalog never translates directly. My original sentence that you said lacks "coherence"? That's the way as I understand it by many filipinos is being spoken. However, you are correct the man technically wasn't the focus the word marumi was and Ang Pinoy admin (FilipinoChatAdmin lol I hope you don't mind the nickname) was correct with constructing the sentence like that. Which is why I posed the question? Are we going for perfect and proper tagalog or being understood? The reason I ask because I need to recheck my words, context and grammar before posting to prevent confusion. And I'm going to encourage them to check this forum out and join. The diversity would be beneficial for all. Reply FilipinoChatAdmin Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 6 years ago. @emacarea I think you have a point there. There is a more casual form of Tagalog that is very common. BUT, there is a difference between a casual and loose style that Filipinos are comfortable with, and sentences that are just wrong to everybody. ; ) If I say in English "I'm gonna go to the mall and buy me a chicken," that's a loose English style but perfectly understandable to anyone in thr US...but if I say "To the mall is me going for to buy chicken" it would sound weird to ALL English speakers. Right? That is to say, I think it's a really valuable thing to learn the rules, and then also to learn when you can get away with breaking the rules. I think these are all independent and mutually reinforcing skills: learn to read Filipino, learn to write Filipino, learn to hear and comprehend Filipino, learn to speak Filipino, learn Formal Filipino, learn casual Filipino...all good stuff! We had a Thai foreign exchange student stay at our house for a while, and she was very interested in the casual and the slang of English, because she wanted to sound more American! So, I think that's a food thing for you to pursue, too... Reply 12»Post a Reply»« Back to Main PageViews: 214,784 Become a patron We love our supporters! :) © copyright 2025. Do not copy or reproduce content or audio without prior written authorization. Scraping and republishing our data is a copyright violation. We put a lot of hard work and TLC into this website -- please don't copy or publish our content without permission. Terms & Community Agreement