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barrist Samba Member Joined: September 04, 2010Posts: 271Location: South Bend,IN |  Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:49 pm Post subject: Distributor Drive Shaft Shims? |  | | I've been away from this project for too long. The question is, how do I determine how many shims are required on the dist drive shaft? Thank You, Bill_________________Back to work after a 6 year lack-of-motivation ! Still looking for the GAS CAP (check that,Done) Thank YOU , this site works | |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member Joined: August 24, 2005Posts: 4627Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA | | Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: | | | You are looking for around .020" play up and down. This is a heck of lot easier to do with engine apart. Most I have found just use the 2 shims on bottom of drive like what you see coming from VW factory. With different distributor clamps being made thickness can very, also other than stock VW distributor can cause a differences. The most I used is 3 shims from case being worn and have seen and use a real thick shim that was already installed in engine. Make sure the little spring is in place in distributor drive._________________Joseph Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA Elrod Motorsports Motion Tire Motorsports Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970 Into Volkswagens since 1960 | |
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mark tucker Samba Member Joined: April 08, 2009Posts: 23945Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA | | Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:03 am Post subject: | | | I use my dial caliper to mesure the distance down,the dist,the gear,and figure it that way. you can also remover the dist clamp and check the gapbetween the dist &case and figure from there. I bought a "NEW"NOS" drive from somebody addvertizing "ratty" stuff on this site from south fl area, and when it got hear it looked new,had cosmoline all over it,cleaned up like new,prpbably was new,but I dont have a clue as to just what it is for.as it would take about an extra .200 in shim to put the gear at the same place as all my other gears.other than that it looks the same as the non flat spoted for clearance gearshaft.and as usual no responce from the seller.might of made a mess for somebody that just stuck it in the case& went with 2 shims. | |
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| rockerarm Samba MemberJoined: December 16, 2009Posts: 3547Location: Los Angeles | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:29 am Post subject: | | | There is not one answer here as it really depends on what you have and your intentions. I have a factory workshop book that shows a diagram and how to obtain the proper set-up on an oem or rebuilt motor. Sometimes the bore is re-machined and there are a couple different length drive gears. But most stock motors will use the two thin shims. If one is building a hi-po motor and want to limit this up/down play (timing scatter) you will need a couple of tools here. I don't have the ability to scan the page but can do a little write up later, if anyone is interested. Bill. | |
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| Oldbugr Samba MemberJoined: December 19, 2007Posts: 296Location: Dusty Tucson | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: | | | Rocker, if you have the time, I'd be interested in reading about it, thanks Eric_________________64 Beetle | |
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| rockerarm Samba MemberJoined: December 16, 2009Posts: 3547Location: Los Angeles | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: | | | When I get home, I will type it out here verbatim and hope it is understandable with out picture. If anyone still would need a pic to clarify it, they can PM me and I will copy and snail mail it. It is from a factory school so I don't think copyright laws prevail. Bill | |
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yamaducci Samba Member Joined: March 30, 2010Posts: 2377Location: Mount Airy, Maryland | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:18 pm Post subject: | | | rockerarm wrote: | | When I get home, I will type it out here verbatim and hope it is understandable with out picture. If anyone still would need a pic to clarify it, they can PM me and I will copy and snail mail it. It is from a factory school so I don't think copyright laws prevail. Bill | Just a suggestion, as a work-around, many copy/Fax machines can email what they have scanned now. You can always try that if you have access at the shop, office, library or wherever._________________-John Cox My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697 3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. | |
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VIN Samba Member Joined: June 01, 2006Posts: 941Location: phoenix | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: | | | jsturtlebuggy wrote: | | You are looking for around .020" play up and down. This is a heck of lot easier to do with engine apart. Most I have found just use the 2 shims on bottom of drive like what you see coming from VW factory. With different distributor clamps being made thickness can very, also other than stock VW distributor can cause a differences. The most I used is 3 shims from case being worn and have seen and use a real thick shim that was already installed in engine. Make sure the little spring is in place in distributor drive. | you have to have the distributer in and clamped, then take the measurement between the case and drive gear? a feeler guage, i would assume to be the easiest..? | |
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RockCrusher Samba Member Joined: August 03, 2010Posts: 4596Location: Parkesburg, PA | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: | | | VIN wrote: | | you have to have the distributer in and clamped, then take the measurement between the case and drive gear? a feeler guage, i would assume to be the easiest..? | Yes and that is the most reliable method of setting the shaft clearance. RC_________________[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries. I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. | |
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| rockerarm Samba MemberJoined: December 16, 2009Posts: 3547Location: Los Angeles | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: | | | Well Eric, this is what I have. It is from: Notes on the Practical Work Light Repairs And Adjustment Work On Engine Service School January '68 Distributor Drive Shaft Due to various modifications in production and reworking of the hole for the distributor drive shaft in the unit reconditioning, several combinations between crankcases, distributor drive shafts, and the shims have resulted. The correct pairing of parts is of importance especially for the assembly of short engines that are supplied without distributor drive shafts and shims. Details are given in the following table: A -depth of hole for the distributor drive shaft in mm. 126.1. 126.8. 131.1. 131.1. 133.5 B-length of distributor drive shaft up to the shoulder In mm. 80.3. 80.3. 80.3. 85.5. 85.5 C- thickness of shims in mm. Upper. 0.6. 0.6. 6.3. 0.6. 0.6 Lower. 0.6. 1.25. -- 0.6. 3.0 D- control dimension. 44.6. 44.6. 44.6. 44.6. 44.6 My note: per the picture, the "control dimension" is the measurement in mm from the top surface of the distributor drive to the top of the drive bore hole. Hope this helps, Bill. Follow up: after typing it all out and submitting it I can see that I will have to scan and post it tomorrow, Bill.Last edited by rockerarm on Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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| VIN Samba MemberJoined: June 01, 2006Posts: 941Location: phoenix | | Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: | | thanks Rock, and rockerarm  | |
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| barrist Samba MemberJoined: September 04, 2010Posts: 271Location: South Bend,IN | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: Thank You | | Thanks for the help guys. Thsi project was put on the back burner, far too long. Brand new (6+ year old long block) Just trying to get it running before the snow, then gather parts this winter.  Thanks again, Bill_________________Back to work after a 6 year lack-of-motivation ! Still looking for the GAS CAP (check that,Done) Thank YOU , this site works | |
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vgajames Samba Member Joined: June 13, 2002Posts: 805Location: Texas | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Thank You | | Project looks interesting...whats it going in or whats going on the pan? | barrist wrote: | | Thanks for the help guys. Thsi project was put on the back burner, far too long. Brand new (6+ year old long block) Just trying to get it running before the snow, then gather parts this winter. Thanks again, Bill | | |
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| RockCrusher Samba MemberJoined: August 03, 2010Posts: 4596Location: Parkesburg, PA | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: | | | Yes....nice engine, but where are the rest of the tins? RC_________________[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries. I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. | |
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| barrist Samba MemberJoined: September 04, 2010Posts: 271Location: South Bend,IN | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: | | Sorry guys, thought you saw my Avi.  This is what I started with. I think I have enough tins?  _________________Back to work after a 6 year lack-of-motivation ! Still looking for the GAS CAP (check that,Done) Thank YOU , this site works | |
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| Sigurd Samba MemberJoined: April 18, 2006Posts: 2639Location: Rockford, IL | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: | | | You need four more pieces: --the sleds that run from the fronts of #1 and #3 cylinders and run underneath the cylinders --the two pieces that hang from the covers behind #2 and #4 These pieces ensure that air stays all around the cylinders. | |
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| ALB Samba MemberJoined: August 05, 2008Posts: 3506Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: | | | barrist wrote: | | . I think I have enough tins? | Your motor is missing the front lower cylinder sheet metal (sled tins) and the back lower pieces. They direct air properly around the cylinders/heads and at higher cruising speeds allow the spent cooling air to join the airstream under the car. Without them the air comes down and hits this airstream at a 90' angle and cannot exit the area efficiently, and this causes higher oil and head temps. I'm guessing the motor also doesn't have a thermostat or flaps, which allows the motor to reach operating temps quicker in all climates (even hot ones!) and when warmed up directs more air to the heads, which is again is a benefit even in a hot climate. Yes, your motor will seem to run fine without these pieces, but it will reach operating temperature quicker, stay at proper operating temps under a wider range of conditions and last longer with everything attached. The engineers from VW put it there for a reason. Would you leave the thermostat out of your watercooled car? As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al_________________On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! | |
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| barrist Samba MemberJoined: September 04, 2010Posts: 271Location: South Bend,IN | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: tins | | | I do have the lower tins,(above pushrods) no heater boxes. And no, not running themostat Don't plan on many grocery trips. Do you guys think I really need more cooling?_________________Back to work after a 6 year lack-of-motivation ! Still looking for the GAS CAP (check that,Done) Thank YOU , this site works | |
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| Sigurd Samba MemberJoined: April 18, 2006Posts: 2639Location: Rockford, IL | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: Re: tins | | | barrist wrote: | | I do have the lower tins,(above pushrods) no heater boxes. And no, not running themostat Don't plan on many grocery trips. Do you guys think I really need more cooling? | I would. It's what the factory had on there. Right now, you have nothing on the sides of the cylinders. Those pieces get the air more uniformly around the cylinders. Personally, I'm a thermostat convert. My 1915 warms up to 250 in less than a mile. The thermostat won't even budge in that time period. Others will disagree on the thermostat, and that's fine, but I think you need at least the pieces I mentioned. The front and rear breastplates are negligible also, because you have an open engine bay. | |
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| mark tucker Samba MemberJoined: April 08, 2009Posts: 23945Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA | | Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: | | | rockerarm wrote: | | Well Eric, this is what I have. It is from: Notes on the Practical Work Light Repairs And Adjustment Work On Engine Service School January '68 Distributor Drive Shaft Due to various modifications in production and reworking of the hole for the distributor drive shaft in the unit reconditioning, several combinations between crankcases, distributor drive shafts, and the shims have resulted. The correct pairing of parts is of importance especially for the assembly of short engines that are supplied without distributor drive shafts and shims. Details are given in the following table: A -depth of hole for the distributor drive shaft in mm. 126.1. 126.8. 131.1. 131.1. 133.5 B-length of distributor drive shaft up to the shoulder In mm. 80.3. 80.3. 80.3. 85.5. 85.5 C- thickness of shims in mm. Upper. 0.6. 0.6. 6.3. 0.6. 0.6 Lower. 0.6. 1.25. -- 0.6. 3.0 D- control dimension. 44.6. 44.6. 44.6. 44.6. 44.6 My note: per the picture, the "control dimension" is the measurement in mm from the top surface of the distributor drive to the top of the drive bore hole. Hope this helps, Bill. Follow up: after typing it all out and submitting it I can see that I will have to scan and post it tomorrow, Bill. | that was my way of thinking, and doing it,just mesure to find out what is needed.kinda just like the shimming of the cylinders, it all needs checked and messured. nice ride. | |
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