Why Are Dragon Balls Pronounced In Chinese? - Kanzenshuu

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Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more. Post Reply Search Advanced search MultilangDBZ Beyond Newbie Posts: 107 Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:10 am Location: Hong Kong, US, Aus., UK

Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

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Post by MultilangDBZ » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:32 am

Hi all, I have been wondering about this ever since I noticed that in GT for example, each of the Dragon Balls is named using both the Chinese pronunciations and words rather than those of ordinary Japanese. Similarly, each of the Evil Dragons in GT is named in such a manner. It seems that standard Mandarin Chinese was adopted and adhered to in general for those words. (And although the Mandarin pronunciations are heavily Japanese accented, as heard in the dialogues, this has come off as quite sexy at times ). The words are listed below. The Dragon Balls are called: Yi Xing Qiu (One-Star Ball and so forth) Liang Xing Qiu San Xing Qiu Si Xing Qiu Wu Xing Qiu Liu Xing Qiu Qi Xing Qiu Similarly, for the Evil Dragons in GT: Yi Xing Long (One-Star Dragon) Liang Xing Long etc. Basically, the words for 'Dragon', 'Ball', 'Star' and each number is in Mandarin Chinese. However, when referring to the Dragon Balls in general, the Japanese pronounced Doragonboru (which is not Chinese) is used as opposed to Long Zhu, a plausible Chinese equivalent (as adopted in both the Mandarin and Cantonese versions of DB/DBZ/GT in Hong Kong, China and Taiwan). But, it can be seen that most of such related naming is in Chinese. Point aside, technically, the naming of the Two-Star Dragon/Ball is incorrect. The use of the word Liang ('two') is wrong in Chinese grammar in these situations, where instead the other word for 'two', Er, should be used. As Liang is a measure word for 'two' (used for counting and measuring things), it shouldn't be used for proper nouns. Er instead is the correct word for 'two' here. Thus, the Two-Star Dragon and the Two-Star Ball should have been named Er Xing Long and Er Xing Qiu respectively. I'm curious as to why a lot of Chinese pronunciations were used for Dragon-related nomenclature over Japanese ones. And why were the Dragon-related objects singled out? Does the Daizenshuu discuss this? Any thoughts? The analytical enigma. 分析性的不解之谜. Top Caracal Regular Posts: 506 Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:03 pm Location: England Contact: Contact Caracal Website

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Post by Caracal » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:00 pm

Well I once read that Akira originally planned for DB to be a re-make/up to date version of Journey to the West, or something along those lines. Even if that wasn't quite the case, I do believe he was inspired to create something loosely based upon the ancient Chinese legend. Based on either of those theories, I personally believe the reason he uses Mandarin Chinese is merely a nod to the original intentions and/or inspiration he had for the series. Top Daimao Mr. Subtitles Posts: 239 Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:20 pm

Re: Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

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Post by Daimao » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:13 pm

MultilangDBZ wrote:Basically, the words for 'Dragon', 'Ball', 'Star' and each number is in Mandarin Chinese. However, when referring to the Dragon Balls in general, the Japanese pronounced Doragonboru (which is not Chinese) is used as opposed to Long Zhu, a plausible Chinese equivalent (as adopted in both the Mandarin and Cantonese versions of DB/DBZ/GT in Hong Kong, China and Taiwan). But, it can be seen that most of such related naming is in Chinese.

To be fair, sometimes it is written 神龍球 ("Shen Long Qiu"), but then given the "doragonboru" furigana to keep the pronunciation consistent. Why settle for one method of naming when you can get away with doing both?

MultilangDBZ wrote:Point aside, technically, the naming of the Two-Star Dragon/Ball is incorrect. The use of the word Liang ('two') is wrong in Chinese grammar in these situations, where instead the other word for 'two', Er, should be used. As Liang is a measure word for 'two' (used for counting and measuring things), it shouldn't be used for proper nouns. Er instead is the correct word for 'two' here. Thus, the Two-Star Dragon and the Two-Star Ball should have been named Er Xing Long and Er Xing Qiu respectively.

I could swear I remember the "Er" pronunciation coming up once, and thinking that it didn't fit in with the "Liang" (which as I understand it, glosses better as "both" rather than "two") convention. I can't seem to locate where that happened now, though. Might have been one of the games. EDIT: Yes, there it is, in the Battle Gates portion of Budokai Tenkaichi--"Er Xing Qiu" (アルシンチュウ).

MultilangDBZ wrote:I'm curious as to why a lot of Chinese pronunciations were used for Dragon-related nomenclature over Japanese ones. And why were the Dragon-related objects singled out? Does the Daizenshuu discuss this? Any thoughts?

My hunch would be that ever since the first couple of chapters of the Dragonball manga, when Shen Long and Sushinchu/Si Xing Qiu were first introduced, Chinese pronunciations were used because they made them sound more exotic, simple as that. The convention just got carried through to naming the evil dragons when they appeared in GT. Top MultilangDBZ Beyond Newbie Posts: 107 Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:10 am Location: Hong Kong, US, Aus., UK

Re: Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

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Post by MultilangDBZ » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:35 pm

Daimao wrote:To be fair, sometimes it is written 神龍球 ("Shen Long Qiu"), but then given the "doragonboru" furigana to keep the pronunciation consistent.

I haven't heard of Shen Long Qiu being used before (either in Japanese or Mandarin and Cantonese versions) - where's it quoted? Doragonboru is consistent with Dragon Ball, not 神龍球 (Shen Long Qiu) I would think. I think 龍珠 (Long Zhu) would be even better as it matches Dragon Ball pictorially and its descriptional meaning, rather than 龍球 (Long Qiu) which is just a literal translation of Dragon Ball.

Daimao wrote:"Liang" (which as I understand it, glosses better as "both" rather than "two") convention.

Why would you think that Liang glosses better than Er? It would be strange to name objects as number "one, both, three..." rather than "one, two, three..."

Daimao wrote:... in the Battle Gates portion of Budokai Tenkaichi--"Er Xing Qiu" (アルシンチュウ).

Interesting.

Caracal wrote:... Mandarin Chinese is merely a nod to the original intentions and/or inspiration he had for the series.

Daimao wrote:My hunch would be that ever since the first couple of chapters of the Dragonball manga, when Shen Long and Sushinchu/Si Xing Qiu were first introduced, Chinese pronunciations were used because they made them sound more exotic, simple as that. The convention just got carried through to naming the evil dragons when they appeared in GT.

Could be, though they would have carried this onto more nomenclature as the Dragon Balls were simply objects rather than characters. If for characters, for the sake of appearing more exotic, (Son) Goku should have been named (Sun) Wu Kong for this reason, which would also be closer to Journey to the West. The analytical enigma. 分析性的不解之谜. Top Daimao Mr. Subtitles Posts: 239 Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:20 pm

Re: Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

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Post by Daimao » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:43 pm

MultilangDBZ wrote:

Daimao wrote:To be fair, sometimes it is written 神龍球 ("Shen Long Qiu"), but then given the "doragonboru" furigana to keep the pronunciation consistent.

I haven't heard of Shen Long Qiu being used before (either in Japanese or Mandarin and Cantonese versions) - where's it quoted? Doragonboru is consistent with Dragon Ball, not 神龍球 (Shen Long Qiu) I would think.

Off the top of my head, there's the episode titlefor DBZ episode 43.

MultilangDBZ wrote:

Daimao wrote:"Liang" (which as I understand it, glosses better as "both" rather than "two") convention.

Why would you think that Liang glosses better than Er? It would be strange to name objects as number "one, both, three..." rather than "one, two, three..."

Forgive the confusion. I meant that "Liang" glosses as "both" better than "two," as I understand it ("Liang-Xing-Qiu" being closer to "Both-Star-Ball" rather than "Two-Star-Ball"). "Er" of course is "two" in any case. Caveat: I am the furthest thing from an authority on Chinese, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. Top SaiyamanMS OMG CRAZY REGEN Posts: 974 Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:08 am Location: Australia Contact: Contact SaiyamanMS Website

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Post by SaiyamanMS » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:13 pm

Despite that the 2 Star Dragon is Liang Xing Long that the actual Dragonball is Er Xing Qiu... Just making a comment to help set facts straight. (Although I have no idea WHY they switch between Er and Liang though... ) Top MultilangDBZ Beyond Newbie Posts: 107 Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:10 am Location: Hong Kong, US, Aus., UK

Re: Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

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Post by MultilangDBZ » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:06 pm

SaiyamanMS wrote:Despite that the 2 Star Dragon is Liang Xing Long that the actual Dragonball is Er Xing Qiu

Are you sure? I remembered that they used Liang for both the Dragon Balls and the Evil Dragons. Hmm, need to verify...

Daimao wrote:Off the top of my head, there's the episode titlefor DBZ episode 43.

Ah, there it is. BTW, nice site you made - really like the neat full-block layout with meshed black and gradient blue. The analytical enigma. 分析性的不解之谜. Top Conan the SSJ I Live Here Posts: 2814 Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:40 am Location: Ohio

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Post by Conan the SSJ » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:16 pm

Caracal wrote:Well I once read that Akira originally planned for DB to be a re-make/up to date version of Journey to the West, or something along those lines. Even if that wasn't quite the case, I do believe he was inspired to create something loosely based upon the ancient Chinese legend. Based on either of those theories, I personally believe the reason he uses Mandarin Chinese is merely a nod to the original intentions and/or inspiration he had for the series.

Please, unless you know the man personally, address him as Akira Toriyama, Toriyama, or simply AT. Addressing him by first name isn't the best sign of respect for the man. Sorry to be finicky, just wanted to get that out of the way. 14 years later Top Daimao Mr. Subtitles Posts: 239 Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:20 pm

Re: Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

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Post by Daimao » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:14 pm

MultilangDBZ wrote:

SaiyamanMS wrote:Despite that the 2 Star Dragon is Liang Xing Long that the actual Dragonball is Er Xing Qiu

Are you sure? I remembered that they used Liang for both the Dragon Balls and the Evil Dragons. Hmm, need to verify...

Mike and Julian already explored some of the naming (although focusing on a different aspect) around a year ago in this thread. According to Julian, they used both Er and Liang for the balls (Er in DB and DBZ, Liang in DBGT). Weird, I agree, but I guess it explains the confusion. Top desirecampbell Moderator Posts: 4296 Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:55 pm Location: Ontario, Canada Contact: Contact desirecampbell Website

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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:21 pm

This might seem like a stupid question, but could the discrepancy simply be attributed to lack of knowledge? I know people who say "chateau" and think they're saying "house", this could be something similar. (é) Yeah, I'm famous. Super famous. I start things. Toyble's DBAF | DBZ Side Stories |Jump Super Anime Tour manga | Chou Kochikame Top MultilangDBZ Beyond Newbie Posts: 107 Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:10 am Location: Hong Kong, US, Aus., UK

Re: Why are Dragon Balls pronounced in Chinese?

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Post by MultilangDBZ » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:13 pm

Daimao wrote:Mike and Julian already explored some of the naming (although focusing on a different aspect) around a year ago in this thread. According to Julian, they used both Er and Liang for the balls (Er in DB and DBZ, Liang in DBGT).

That's quite an informative thread about the furigana used and adhered to in Dragon Ball.

desirecampbell wrote:... could the discrepancy simply be attributed to lack of knowledge? I know people who say "chateau" and think they're saying "house", this could be something similar.

It's likely, now that the inconsistent use of Er and Liang can be seen amongst DB/DBZ/GT (in that thread). Still, it remains unknown as to why Chinese pronunciations were used for only the Dragon Balls and the GT Evil Dragons, rather than characters or objects relevant to Journey to the West. The analytical enigma. 分析性的不解之谜. Top Post Reply Display: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by: AuthorPost timeSubject Direction: AscendingDescending

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