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Xiangqi or Shogi?
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 kaimat | Post subject: Xiangqi or Shogi? #1 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:22 am | |
| Dies with sente |  | Posts: 70Location: Milwaukee, WILiked others: 8 Was liked: 9 Rank: 4k KGS: kaimat Online playing schedule: KGS most nights after 8pm CST. Sundays available anytime but on in the morning and evening. | | So I'm looking to learn a new game to play with my friends. I already devote a significant amount of time to chess, backgammon, and go (go is the most recent), so I'm not planning on being very study-intensive with the new game (I'll probably only read a book or two on basic strategy), just looking for something fun.I was just wondering if you guys had any advice as to which game my friends and I should learn. Xiangqi seems to be more popular (from what I've read on like Wikipedia), so that makes me kinda lean towards Xiangqi.My main concern, however, is that the game is played with Chinese characters. I'm sure my Western ignorance is at work here, but when I look at the pieces they all just kinda look the same (that is, they look really confusing), and I am afraid that my friends and I won't be able to quickly differentiate the pieces and that will have a significant impact on our play. I've thought about getting "Western" pieces, but I don't want to get into a situation where I can't play against someone because we only have the traditional pieces present.If any other Western players have played Xiangqi, I'd greatly appreciate to hear about your experiences with recognizing the pieces.Finally, any thoughts on this set: http://cgi.ebay.com/Chinese-Chess-Xiang ... 3a66ad46fd it seems to be quite large (pieces are 5cm in diameter) and the board is nice and portable, though if there are any recommendations on other sets those are welcomed.If Shogi is preferred, I have the same concerns with the characters. _________________I came to go through Kawabata and was introduced to a whole new world. | |
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| nagano | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #2 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:39 am | |
| Lives in gote |  | Posts: 448Liked others: 127 Was liked: 34 Rank: Tygem 4d GD Posts: 24 | It's really up to you. Xiangqi is more popular only because China is slightly more populous than Japan.  If you only try one, I would go with Shogi, as drops and promotions really add something to the game. As far as the characters are concerned, they are easy enough to learn in either case. If your friends are scared off by them, they probably would not play this sort of game anyway. _________________"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War | |
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| palapiku | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #3 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:53 am | |
| Lives in sente |  | Posts: 761Liked others: 152 Was liked: 204 Rank: the k-word | | The characters really aren't a problem. After playing one game you will have them memorized. | |
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| John Fairbairn | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #4 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:29 am | |
| Posts: 3711Liked others: 20 Was liked: 4664 | | Quote:If Shogi is preferred, I have the same concerns with the characters.I worked with George Hodges of The Shogi Association for 11 years so I know a lot about this reaction. It is very common. Almost equally common is the surprise how quickly the characters are memorised. If anything, memorising the moves takes longer.But shogi has a built-in help button. The pieces are different sizes. The king is the most important piece and so is the largest. The vital rook and bishop are next in size and pawns are smallest. The lances go only forward, as suggested by their extra slender shape in many sets.You can also buy sets that use only one character instead of two (ask for ichijibori), as used on demonstration boards and in shogi magazinesThe only really tricky area is in the promotions. Best to buy a set where the squiggles look as distinctive as possible to you. For similar reasons, a set written in a "square" script on the unpromoted side rather than than a flowing one will be easier to distinguish. There is a vast variety of scripts, and some use colour (e.g. for promotions), so don't grab the first set you see. | |
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| Redundant | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #5 Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:24 pm | |
| Lives in sente |  | Posts: 924Location: PittsburghLiked others: 45 Was liked: 103 Rank: lazy KGS: redundant/silchas Tygem: redundant Wbaduk: redundant DGS: redundant OGS: redundant | | Also, there is a shogi anime, but I'm fairly certain there isn't something similar for Xiangqi. | |
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| Hushfield | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #6 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:57 am | |
| Lives in gote |  | Posts: 359Location: Ghent, BelgiumLiked others: 72 Was liked: 199 GD Posts: 11 KGS: Hushfield | | I'd go with shogi. It's a fun game, a set with wooden pieces is dirt cheap and you can make the board yourself (which is a lot of fun, by the way). I can only echo what others have said about the characters: they are very easy to memorize. I learned playing it with a couple of friends, and we all memorized them in one afternoon. If you want only a few books about shogi, then I'd recommend the following:- Fairbairn : Shogi for Beginners- Hosking : The Art of ShogiSince it's mostly for fun, The Fairbairn book seems like the ideal choice. It teaches a few basic castles (of which I've only ever learned the mino variations) and that's been enough for countless games with my roommate. | |
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| Solomon | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #7 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:15 am | |
| Gosei |  | Posts: 1848Location: Bellevue, WALiked others: 90 Was liked: 837 Rank: AGA 5d KGS: Capsule 4d Tygem: 치킨까스 5d | My advice is to try both games for about a month and decide from there. | This post by Solomon was liked by: Kirby | | | |
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| tealeaf | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #8 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:23 am | |
| Dies with sente |  | Posts: 100Location: Oxford, UKLiked others: 0 Was liked: 37 KGS: tealeaf IGS: tealeaf Wbaduk: tealeaf DGS: joss OGS: tealeaf Universal go server handle: tealeaf | | I would say that there are advantages to both. To my mind, Xiangqi is a simpler (but certainly not simple) game, and tends to be more directly violent. There often seems to be a short manouvering phase before suddenly the board explodes and everything dies.Shogi is more complex, but the games consequently tend to take much longer. (I think of chess-like games, in terms of complexity, as xiangqi < chess < shogi).There is a xiangqi cartoon, but you'll have to speak Mandarin to understand it. It's called 象棋王 （http://www.hong-ying.com/xqw/xqw_upload/index.htm). Shogi does have Shion no Ou, which has been fansubbed, but that's not realy "about" shogi, it's more a story framed in the world of professional shogi.I also agree that the characters shouldn't be a problem. I've taught a few people both games, and they have all managed to recognize the pieces within half an hour of playing around.My advice would also be to get both and see which one you like more. Xiangqi sets, particularly, are often available in local Chinese supermarkets or shops, and tend to be very cheap. The "standard" set that I usually see is like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINESE-CHESS-SET-Xiangqi-Traditional-Board-Game-box-/200618433210?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb5ca5aba. _________________http://www.pseudonymity.nethttp://www.pseudonymity.net/~joss | |
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| Codexus | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #9 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:08 am | |
| Dies with sente |  | Posts: 101Location: Geneva, SwitzerlandLiked others: 66 Was liked: 57 Rank: DGS 6k KGS: Codexus DGS: Codexus | Shogi all the way!  Playing shogi is a lot of fun, there is a lot of strategical thinking early in the game and it's quite common to have exciting endgames with both players on the brink of checkmating their opponent.Most people can learn to recognize the kanji no problem by just playing a few games with a cheat sheet or someone to help them. I guess some people might get all stubborn about the kanji and not try the game but in my opinion, it's not really worth getting an internationalized set unless you plan on showing the game to random passersby. | |
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| red_z06 | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #10 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:11 am | |
| Posts: 79Liked others: 0 Was liked: 2 Rank: was IGS 1d in 2002 KGS: red_z06 | | Nah!Janggi is better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janggi | |
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| EdLee | | Post subject: #11 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:33 pm | |
| Honinbo |  | Posts: 8859Location: Santa Barbara, CALiked others: 349 Was liked: 2076 GD Posts: 312 | red_z06 wrote:Janggi is better. Interesting!  | |
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| hirohiigo | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #12 Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:56 pm | |
| Dies in gote |  | Posts: 40Liked others: 1 Was liked: 5 Rank: KGS 13-kyu KGS: hirohiigo | Don't let Wikipedia fool you. Even though Xiangqi is technically more popular, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything about it in English. There are much fewer xiangqi resources in English than shogi (and even in shogi we're kind of hard-pressed for resources).I'm a shogi player, so I'm definitely going to have to tell you to play shogi. We even have some great places to play online and chat like on L19:The 81-Square Universe - The most popular shogi forum in English81 Dojo - A rising star in online real-time shogi play; offers a lot of the same features as KGS for igo.We'd be more than happy to help you learn the game at 81SU and 81 Dojo. _________________ | |
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| mohsart | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #13 Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:38 pm | |
| Lives with ko |  | Posts: 209Location: Blekinge, SwedenLiked others: 2 Was liked: 38 Rank: Swedish 3 kyu | | tealeaf wrote:There is a xiangqi cartoon, but you'll have to speak Mandarin to understand it. It's called 象棋王 （http://www.hong-ying.com/xqw/xqw_upload/index.htm).Actually, at least episode one on Tudou has English subs http://www.tudou.com/playlist/p/a63290i14708268.html/Mats _________________mohsart - games & bookshttp://spel.mohsart.se/ | |
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| tealeaf | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #14 Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:45 pm | |
| Dies with sente | | Posts: 100Location: Oxford, UKLiked others: 0 Was liked: 37 KGS: tealeaf IGS: tealeaf Wbaduk: tealeaf DGS: joss OGS: tealeaf Universal go server handle: tealeaf | | mohsart wrote:tealeaf wrote:There is a xiangqi cartoon, but you'll have to speak Mandarin to understand it. It's called 象棋王 （http://www.hong-ying.com/xqw/xqw_upload/index.htm).Actually, at least episode one on Tudou has English subs http://www.tudou.com/playlist/p/a63290i14708268.html/MatsAs far as I know, only the first episode has been subtitled to date. I haven't seen anyone working on doing the rest, sadly. _________________http://www.pseudonymity.nethttp://www.pseudonymity.net/~joss | |
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| tealeaf | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #15 Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:53 pm | |
| Dies with sente | | Posts: 100Location: Oxford, UKLiked others: 0 Was liked: 37 KGS: tealeaf IGS: tealeaf Wbaduk: tealeaf DGS: joss OGS: tealeaf Universal go server handle: tealeaf | | hirohiigo wrote:Don't let Wikipedia fool you. Even though Xiangqi is technically more popular, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything about it in English. There are much fewer xiangqi resources in English than shogi (and even in shogi we're kind of hard-pressed for resources).I'm a shogi player, so I'm definitely going to have to tell you to play shogi. We even have some great places to play online and chat like on L19:The 81-Square Universe - The most popular shogi forum in English81 Dojo - A rising star in online real-time shogi play; offers a lot of the same features as KGS for igo.We'd be more than happy to help you learn the game at 81SU and 81 Dojo.You forgot to mention Shogipedia I'd say that in terms of books available, they're about equal. You have "The Art of Shogi" and "Habu's Words" as the main English books for Shogi, and you have Li's "Syllabus on..." series for Xiangqi. (I also have a few bilingual books translated by John Fairbairn for Shogi, and there are one or two introductory books to Xiangqi out there as well.)In terms of web resources, you can play Xiangqi at http://www.clubxiangqi.com/, and a few other places, and Jim at http://www.xqinenglish.com/ has been doing some great work putting Xiangqi resources up in English. There isn't a forum for Xiangqi in English that I know of, though. Shogi is definitely winning in terms of English (or English-accessible) blogs.So I do agree that Shogi has more resources for the English speaker, but that doesn't mean that there aren't Xiangqi resources out there for those who are interested. _________________http://www.pseudonymity.nethttp://www.pseudonymity.net/~joss | |
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| bakekoq | | Post subject: Re: Xiangqi or Shogi? #16 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:16 am | |
| Posts: 122Liked others: 0 Was liked: 0 Rank: KGS 12kyu KGS: hojoin OGS: sojirobakekoq Online playing schedule: wah,almost everyday in OGS right now.I still can't play in KGS because the limitness of my network. | I also play shougi too. I just played it since 2 days a go. but, I can only play with my friends on the board. btw, my shougi using International logo just like in the chess. I'm not using Kanji characters for my pawns. Is there anyone interested? I'll sell this shougi cheap enough if U want to.  | |
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