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Offline crumpet8

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Bypassing starter relay safe?
« on: June 11, 2017, 11:20:06 AM » Hi,So I'm hoping to attach some heavy gauge wire across the relay bolts to bypass it and jump current straight to the starter. Yes, I know I should just by a relay but bear with me :)All info is greatly appreciated!How safe is this? What gauge wire? type of switch? Should I wire in some sort of fuse? Logged

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2017, 11:48:19 AM » The reason the starter solenoid (relay) exists is so the damn thing shuts off!If you're desperate to start your bike electronically - use a screwdriver with a rubber handle.Or kick start it like a champ ;D Logged

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2017, 12:15:58 PM » Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 11:20:06 AM
Hi,So I'm hoping to attach some heavy gauge wire across the relay bolts to bypass it and jump current straight to the starter. Yes, I know I should just by a relay but bear with me :)All info is greatly appreciated!How safe is this? What gauge wire? type of switch? Should I wire in some sort of fuse?
Not a great idea. That starter and battery cable is a big wire pulling a lot of current through it. What makes you wish to do this? You are better off momentarily bypassing it with an insulated screwdriver as suggested if you just want to test or otherwise run the starter. Once upon a time, long ago, an energetic but less informed....PERSON I KNOW *cough* wanted to turn over his starter and the engine it was attached to while it was out of the motorcycle. I ^h^h^h^h^h THIS GUY thought to himself, "Hey, that Romex over there looks pretty beefy, has to be good for 40 amps or so". and wired it up to his starter, grounding it to his engine. When I ^h^h^h HE put spark to this setup, the starter did dutifully spin, and all seemed right in the world for about 10 seconds, until the insulation of the romex melted to the consistency of maple syrup, and came this >< close to shorting together. I advise caution with this :-). P.S. Just googled this, and one fellow put his DC clamp meter on his Aprilia and measured it:Peak draw: 61 AmpsContinuous cranking draw: 33 amps « Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 12:22:09 PM by NobleHops » Logged Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USAI have a motorcycle problem.My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline koendd

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2017, 01:24:05 PM » just use a screwdriver as stated before (insulated :o)no idea why you would want a permanent bypass since the starter motor will keep spinning then;.. Logged 1972 cb750K2 brat1976 cb3601984 GPZ900R

Offline crumpet8

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2017, 01:53:06 PM » 1980 cb650 = no kick start. I'd install a toggle switch to turn it off right after the bike starts. Figure there'd be less sparks and burnt spots on my screwdriver and bolts...?Reason for the quick solution is I'm thinking of selling it before moving next month, but would also be nice to ride around without having to take off side cover etc. to start it up in the morning. Easy push start when warm :) Logged

Offline PeWe

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2017, 01:58:24 PM » I agree with the othersCB750 starter motor is specified 600W. 600W/12V=50A That's why the wires are thick.I should test a thick screwdriver for fault tracing only, to verify that the motor is functional if not starting by the button. Connection in max 2-3 secEdit: I bought a cheap starter relay for my next project, CB750 K2. It fits my holder after I added a turn or 2 with vulc rubber tape.http://www.ebay.com/itm/200946091392?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT « Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 02:02:10 PM by PeWe » Logged CB750 K6-76 970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136The billet block build threadhttp://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571CB750 K2 -1975 build threadhttp://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline koendd

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 02:01:34 PM » just rewire it then?there's 2 wires coming from the starter relay (apart from the big ones to battery and starter off course).The other 2 thin gauge wires: yellow/red: wire that through a pushbutton switch with a switched +, the other one is ground. problem solved... Logged 1972 cb750K2 brat1976 cb3601984 GPZ900R

Offline przjohn

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 02:06:37 PM » Quote from: NobleHops on June 11, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 11:20:06 AM
Hi,So I'm hoping to attach some heavy gauge wire across the relay bolts to bypass it and jump current straight to the starter. Yes, I know I should just by a relay but bear with me :)All info is greatly appreciated!How safe is this? What gauge wire? type of switch? Should I wire in some sort of fuse?
Not a great idea. That starter and battery cable is a big wire pulling a lot of current through it. What makes you wish to do this? You are better off momentarily bypassing it with an insulated screwdriver as suggested if you just want to test or otherwise run the starter. Once upon a time, long ago, an energetic but less informed....PERSON I KNOW *cough* wanted to turn over his starter and the engine it was attached to while it was out of the motorcycle. I ^h^h^h^h^h THIS GUY thought to himself, "Hey, that Romex over there looks pretty beefy, has to be good for 40 amps or so". and wired it up to his starter, grounding it to his engine. When I ^h^h^h HE put spark to this setup, the starter did dutifully spin, and all seemed right in the world for about 10 seconds, until the insulation of the romex melted to the consistency of maple syrup, and came this >< close to shorting together. I advise caution with this :-). P.S. Just googled this, and one fellow put his DC clamp meter on his Aprilia and measured it:Peak draw: 61 AmpsContinuous cranking draw: 33 amps
It is nice to know others besides myself have had their, "Moments" shall we call them. :) Logged I like poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking at dead things with a stick.

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 03:04:55 PM » Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 01:53:06 PM
Reason for the quick solution is I'm thinking of selling it before moving next month.
You could wire a momentary push button to the stock "start button" wires and fix the new button under the tank. $10 and 20 minutes.Do it nicely and the future owner won't despise you for it ;D Logged

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 03:40:36 PM » Quote from: BomberMann650 on June 11, 2017, 03:04:55 PM
Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 01:53:06 PM
Reason for the quick solution is I'm thinking of selling it before moving next month.
You could wire a momentary push button to the stock "start button" wires and fix the new button under the tank. $10 and 20 minutes.Do it nicely and the future owner won't despise you for it ;D
This is the right idea. The two smaller wires connected to the solenoid trigger the solenoid. Switch them as suggested WITH A MOMENTARY SWITCH (not a regular toggle) and you should be back in business. Or just fix the friggin' thing. A used switch is a whopping $25...http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X35130-463-505.TRS1&_nkw=35130-463-505&_sacat=0...and you can still buy a new one for $90:http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-35130-463-505.html Logged Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USAI have a motorcycle problem.My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2017, 03:43:09 PM » Quote from: przjohn
It is nice to know others besides myself have had their, "Moments" shall we call them. :)
Let's team up and write the book. I've got several chapters' worth of 'moments' if I can just remember them all :-) Where ya been John? Haven't seen you about. Are you building anything at the moment?N. Logged Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USAI have a motorcycle problem.My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2017, 03:45:32 PM » P.S. If the solenoid is the problem and not the switch, I bet I have one that you can have for the price of postage. Fix it right. Logged Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USAI have a motorcycle problem.My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline crumpet8

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2017, 04:27:08 PM » Thanks everyone, but sorry I guess I didn't explain this clearly... the relay is the issue, a switch for the low voltage lines (or whatever they're called?) I can make With leftovers in my tool bag, but have little idea about relays :) The relay isn't working, hence the reason I'm bypassing it (currently with a screw driver). Logged

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2017, 04:32:01 PM » Then take up noblehops's offer of a working solenoid! Logged

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2017, 04:40:03 PM » I will look for one tomorrow. Drop me an email please to [email protected]. Those can actually be opened up, the contacts within cleaned and the solenoid fixed. N. Logged Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USAI have a motorcycle problem.My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline crumpet8

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2017, 10:58:34 PM » Hei Nils!Great build thread by the way :) I'll shoot you an email later today. Might have to wait a week to get paid/after my exams. Logged

Offline crumpet8

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2017, 10:59:30 PM » May take it apart first to see if I can clean it as you recommended too. Logged

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2017, 06:41:36 AM » Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 10:59:30 PM
May take it apart first to see if I can clean it as you recommended too.
Good place to start - and if not, let me know. Best,N. Logged Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USAI have a motorcycle problem.My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline przjohn

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2017, 05:16:16 PM » Quote from: NobleHops on June 11, 2017, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: przjohn
It is nice to know others besides myself have had their, "Moments" shall we call them. :)
Let's team up and write the book. I've got several chapters' worth of 'moments' if I can just remember them all :-) Where ya been John? Haven't seen you about. Are you building anything at the moment?N.
Have a 550 to rebuild next Winter. Took this past Winter off and worked on other odd jobs. Logged I like poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking at dead things with a stick.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2017, 07:28:51 PM » Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 10:59:30 PM
May take it apart first to see if I can clean it as you recommended too.
Yes, the posts on the inside can be cleaned. But the copper bar can be flipped upside down to reveal fresh copper. Super simple. Then you won't be one of those PO's that we all despise, haha. Logged Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe BuildThe Mayor - ‘79 CB650 Factory Revive—Need a full oil pump o-ring kit for your 650?Want to use a Dyna S ignition on your 650?

Offline crumpet8

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2017, 02:37:54 AM » Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 10:59:30 PM
May take it apart first to see if I can clean it as you recommended too.
Hey Everyone, so I took out the relay, gave it a good clean, checked continuity to it and all is good again. Thanks for the help :) here's a pic of my bike by the way. * IMG_2728.JPG (198.87kB, 1024x765 - viewed 124 times.) Logged

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2017, 06:34:12 AM » Nice clean bike...... and how did the exams go? Logged 71 CB750 K1 108,000 milesOriginal Owner———past———70 SL100/125/15070 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0 ————————————————-Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all—————————————————————-Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re rightGenius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2017, 06:56:07 AM » Nice 650, glad you've got it fixed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Logged Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe BuildThe Mayor - ‘79 CB650 Factory Revive—Need a full oil pump o-ring kit for your 650?Want to use a Dyna S ignition on your 650?

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2017, 06:59:13 AM » Quote from: crumpet8 on June 20, 2017, 02:37:54 AM
Quote from: crumpet8 on June 11, 2017, 10:59:30 PM
May take it apart first to see if I can clean it as you recommended too.
Hey Everyone, so I took out the relay, gave it a good clean, checked continuity to it and all is good again. Thanks for the help :) here's a pic of my bike by the way.
Excellent, well done! Great bike! Logged Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USAI have a motorcycle problem.My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline crumpet8

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Re: Bypassing starter relay safe?
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2017, 01:34:09 PM » Quote from: Kevin D on June 20, 2017, 06:34:12 AM
Nice clean bike...... and how did the exams go?
Haha spent today fixing the relay etc. instead of reading so am going to really get some reading done tomorrow :) thanks for asking! Fingers crossed it goes ok... think it'll be fine. Logged
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