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#1 · Nov 7, 2005 hey, what is a c10? is it similar to a c4? will a c10 stally fit a c4? thanks... Sort by Oldest first Oldest first Newest first Most reactions 1 2 #2 · Nov 7, 2005

gasxd said: hey, what is a c10? is it similar to a c4? will a c10 stally fit a c4? thanks... Click to expand...

If you are comaring an XA C4 that come from behind a cleveland, to an XD C10 they will be the same, convertor included. I don't know if correct or not, by my auto trans builder says the the box with the screw in modulator is a C4 and the clamp in modulator a C10, which was in all the later falcons till the end. All pan fill boxes ofcoarse. #3 · Nov 7, 2005

gasxd said: hey, what is a c10? is it similar to a c4? will a c10 stally fit a c4? thanks... Click to expand...

Depends if you live in Victoria or elsewhere :hy: . Essentially, they're the same thing, 3 different versions exist of the C4, you'll probably hear c9 too, somehow they've adopted their own names however there is no reference to these names in OFFICIAL Ford publications.. From memory: C10 is a Cleveland C4 C9 is a 6cyl C4 C4 is the original Windsor C4. #4 · Nov 7, 2005 if the c10 came from a 302 windsor and the c4 is for a cleveland, will the stallys be interchangable??? cheers #5 · Nov 7, 2005 C4 is 24 spline case fill, C10 is 26 spline pan fill. The convertors won't interchange. #6 · Nov 7, 2005 Keep 'em coming...... I LOVE this topic. C4/9/10. Alsways very entertaining. #7 · Nov 7, 2005 What does pan fill and case fill mean? #8 · Nov 7, 2005 dont recall seing a case fill c4 before when i ordered my flexable braided dipstick tube i asked for one to suit a c4 and when it arrived it was the screw into pan type #9 · Nov 7, 2005

gasxd said: What does pan fill and case fill mean? Click to expand...

Case fill means that the dipstick pushes into the alloy "case". Pan fill means that the dipstick screw into the steel "pan". Windsor C4 and 6cyl C4 are case fill, Clevo C4 and C5 are pan fill. #10 · Nov 7, 2005 if you are running this c4/5/9/10? whatever behind a clevo heres a tip. use a windsor bellhousing, converter, and flexplate and it will bring the starter motor away from the extractors. i use a "case" fill box which was originally fitted behind a 302 windsor. it works and its all good. good luck. jus. #11 · Nov 7, 2005 No Ford parts book or manual has ever described any of the trans as anything but C4. No C9's or 10's. They are all C4s. There are variations of C4s, some with large pumps and converters, some with small. Some six cylinder etc. In the XA the types of C4 listed are: PEE-AW,AM 250cid 1V PEE-AV,AL 250cid 2V PEE-AY 302cid (I dont belive this was used, this was the Windsor type) This is the type people call "C4" PEF-J 302cid XA-XC(Also used with some 351 2V XA to XB ilo FMX) This is the type people call "C10" I belive the term "C10" originated in some wrecking yards in Victoria in the 80's. Its not a Ford description. There are also diffrent versions of C6, small block and big block. People dont call them C7's just because they can. Steven B #12 · Nov 7, 2005

jg66me said: No Ford parts book or manual has ever described any of the trans as anything but C4. No C9's or 10's. They are all C4s. There are variations of C4s, some with large pumps and converters, some with small. Some six cylinder etc. In the XA the types of C4 listed are: PEE-AW,AM 250cid 1V PEE-AV,AL 250cid 2V PEE-AY 302cid (I dont belive this was used, this was the Windsor type) This is the type people call "C4" PEF-J 302cid XA-XC(Also used with some 351 2V XA to XB ilo FMX) This is the type people call "C10" I belive the term "C10" originated in some wrecking yards in Victoria in the 80's. Its not a Ford description. There are also diffrent versions of C6, small block and big block. People dont call them C7's just because they can. Steven B Click to expand...

well done steve. they are all c4's, thats why i said "whatever" i forgot to add that ours is a 26 spline also. cheers, justin. #13 · Nov 7, 2005 Another point to consider with C4s in general is that a case-fill means that you can add a higher capacity pan. I haven't seen much in the way of specialty market pans for pan-filled C4s. :davis: #14 · Nov 7, 2005

jg66me said: No Ford parts book or manual has ever described any of the trans as anything but C4. No C9's or 10's. They are all C4s. There are variations of C4s, some with large pumps and converters, some with small. Some six cylinder etc. In the XA the types of C4 listed are: PEE-AW,AM 250cid 1V PEE-AV,AL 250cid 2V PEE-AY 302cid (I dont belive this was used, this was the Windsor type) This is the type people call "C4" PEF-J 302cid XA-XC(Also used with some 351 2V XA to XB ilo FMX) This is the type people call "C10" I belive the term "C10" originated in some wrecking yards in Victoria in the 80's. Its not a Ford description. There are also diffrent versions of C6, small block and big block. People dont call them C7's just because they can. Steven B Click to expand...

Thats great stuff Steve, I've been wondering about where my C4 came from for a while now, the ID tag states- PEF J1, as my Cleveland started out as a 302 from a 1977 Fairmont Wagon would this suggest that the gearbox came from the same vehicle? Also would a tag marked PEF-J1 mean that its an Aussie rather than an American box? #15 · Nov 7, 2005

jg66me said: No Ford parts book or manual has ever described any of the trans as anything but C4. No C9's or 10's. They are all C4s. There are variations of C4s, some with large pumps and converters, some with small. Some six cylinder etc. In the XA the types of C4 listed are: PEE-AW,AM 250cid 1V PEE-AV,AL 250cid 2V PEE-AY 302cid (I dont belive this was used, this was the Windsor type) This is the type people call "C4" PEF-J 302cid XA-XC(Also used with some 351 2V XA to XB ilo FMX) This is the type people call "C10" I belive the term "C10" originated in some wrecking yards in Victoria in the 80's. Its not a Ford description. There are also diffrent versions of C6, small block and big block. People dont call them C7's just because they can. Steven B Click to expand...

Exactly right!! :hy: #16 · Nov 7, 2005

gasxd said: hey, what is a c10? is it similar to a c4? will a c10 stally fit a c4? thanks... Click to expand...

Hey gasxd It is certainly true that Ford never called the C4 anything but a C4. The problem is not all parts will interchange between autos. Some valvebodies are not interchangable, flexplates convertors and bellhousings need to be matched etc. To answer your question "will a C10 stally fit a C4", is impossible without knowing more information. In an effort to assist identification, the transmission industry has adopted an informal method.

gregaust said: Here's the difference..C4,5,9 and C10 are all basically the same trans with some differences between them. These are some of the differences: C4 - Smaller 24 spline input shaft Bellhousing and pump share same bolts trans casing has a 'step' at the front near the bell filler tube enters case breather tube exits case near selector lever C5/C9 - Larger 26 spline input shaft Bellhousing and pump share same bolts trans casing has a 'step' at the front near the bell filler tube enters case breather 'cap' in trans extension housing at top C5 pan has larger capacity than C9 pan C10 - Larger 26 spline input shaft Bellhousing and pump use seperate bolts trans case has smooth transition to bellhousing mount filler enters pan breather 'cap' in trans extension housing This is how to id them externally. There are minor differences internally so some parts won't interchange, ie valve bodies. C10 Bellhousing won't fit C4,5 and C9 however C4,5 and C9 bellhousing will fit C10 with longer pump bolts. I believe all C10 bellhousings are designed for the larger 164 tooth flex however C4-C9 housings are available for 164 or 157 tooth flex. C5,9 and C10 are slightly stronger due to larger input shaft. Beyond that there ain't much difference. Things to watch when swapping is to use the correct bellhousing and converter(24 or 26 spline, 157 or 164 tooth flex compatibility) and also use the correct valve body if swapping. Click to expand...

Now I understand people get into a flap about calling a C4 anything other than what Ford did. Especailly when claims are made about one being better/stronger than another,or one being worth more than another. If you have ever tried to buy parts for a C4 the questions that follow are; "Casefill/panfill?" "How many teeth does the flex plate have, etc" C4, C5, C6, C9, C10 are all about trying to match the right parts to the right auto IMHO #17 · Nov 7, 2005

davis said: Another point to consider with C4s in general is that a case-fill means that you can add a higher capacity pan. I haven't seen much in the way of specialty market pans for pan-filled C4s. :davis: Click to expand...

art carr make a larger capacity pan for these ring steve butchard at bms transmissions on 02 9913 2469 (sydney) #18 · Nov 8, 2005

debacle-racing said: art carr make a larger capacity pan for these ring steve butchard at bms transmissions on 02 9913 2469 (sydney) Click to expand...

Neil from Precise can also custom make them. I have one on my new c4. #19 · Nov 8, 2005

debacle-racing said: art carr make a larger capacity pan for these ring steve butchard at bms transmissions on 02 9913 2469 (sydney) Click to expand...

I use that one on my pan fill C whater it is. #20 · Nov 8, 2005 Will stand corrected on this but I believe that the C is for 1960 and 4 equates to 1964. That is, the C4 was first used in 1964 for the smaller engines and then C6 was introduced in 1966 for the latest range of larger capacity engines. The earlier 289 and 302 windsors had the C4 (case fill) whereas the C10, as stated above was used in the fisrt Aussie 2V clevelands introduced in 1972 which had the pan fill. Here are a few links about C4's etc; http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/trans.html http://customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0508cct_trans/ http://www.fordmuscle.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=9911&forum=13&34 Last one gives you just about all the info you need. Paul #21 · Nov 8, 2005

paull said: Will stand corrected on this but I believe that the C is for 1960 and 4 equates to 1964. That is, the C4 was first used in 1964 for the smaller engines and then C6 was introduced in 1966 for the latest range of larger capacity engines. The earlier 289 and 302 windsors had the C4 (case fill) whereas the C10, as stated above was used in the fisrt Aussie 2V clevelands introduced in 1972 which had the pan fill. Here are a few links about C4's etc; http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/trans.html http://customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0508cct_trans/ http://www.fordmuscle.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=9911&forum=13&34 Last one gives you just about all the info you need. Paul Click to expand...

Pan filled "C4s", "PEF-J", are also used in the US, they were not made here in Australia. They can be found behind many US 351C 2Vs. They are listed in one of your links above, a US site. There is not one document on this planet that has Ford Motor Company, Dearborn Michigan or Ford Motor Company, Cambelfield Victoria as a heading that makes any mention of a C10 or a C9. C4s were used behind Windsors, Clevelands, I Sixes, in the UK behind the Essex V6s in the MK4 Zodiac and MK1 Capri. Not one C10 ever left a Ford factory. Those that argue that they exist never ever quote official Ford documents, only after market catalouges or what some bloke said in a Transmission shop or wrecking yard and only here in Australia. C4, C4, C4. I rest my case based on documentry evidence provided by the Ford Motor Company. Steven B #22 · Nov 8, 2005

mach1mike said: Thats great stuff Steve, I've been wondering about where my C4 came from for a while now, the ID tag states- PEF J1, as my Cleveland started out as a 302 from a 1977 Fairmont Wagon would this suggest that the gearbox came from the same vehicle? Also would a tag marked PEF-J1 mean that its an Aussie rather than an American box? Click to expand...

I take it you got the box from a XC wagon imported into the UK? The box has done a lot of traveling. It still originated in the US, was fitted to a Aussie car and sent to the UK. I get over there a lot, in fact a lot of my family live there. I remember a blue XC 302 Fairmont wagon that a guy in Barnsley used for towing caravns, he had a caravan dealership. I was on a working holiday in 84 and thats when I fell for the Capri 2.8 Injection. Steve #23 · Nov 8, 2005 C4 equals something that is meant to explode, all mine have..................... #24 · Nov 8, 2005

Red04VXE said: C4 equals something that is meant to explode, all mine have..................... Click to expand...

If that engine in your avatar is what did it, you need a Allison from a concrete truck

riest: #25 · Nov 8, 2005 So basically C10 is an Australian nickname for a 26 spline C4 and torque converters aren't interchangable... Thanks! #26 · Nov 9, 2005 The early C4's 64-67 were known also as cruise-matics , put them in drive and they start off in second and then change into top , if you wanted first gear you had to manually select it with the auto gear stick (claimed as a safty item so it wouldn't spin the wheels) l found this out when we did a old 65 Mustang auto up a few years ago and the customer was complaining about it always started off in second gear when it was in drive , read up on heaps of material on subject thinking there was a problem and there wasn't one , this g/box finished in the 67 model . 1 2 This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread. Insert Quotes Quotes Post Reply

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