K&H O300 MY OPINION After 4 YEARS

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K&H O300 MY OPINION after 4 YEARS 📝 Reply Options Old 19th July 2015 #1 just_manu 🎙️ Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 514 🎧 10 years K&H O300 MY OPINION after 4 YEARS Hi everyone. I wrote some years ago saying my initial disappointment with these monitors. That thread had a lot of feedback, something that I appreciate and hope it happens again. Since then, I've been working on some other monitors (Smart Audio custom made) which I was lent, but almost one year ago I left the studio I was working at and I had to start working with my K&H O300 again. With more experience on the o300 now, here are my thoughts about them: - This monitors go VERY deep in the low end. The bass response is very honest and tight. The low end is, in my opinion, the best feature in these speakers. U will need to have a well treated room if you want to get the max of it btw, since the bass on them is huge. - They are undoubtedly a BLAND and very FORGIVING monitors. They are very comfortable to spend a lot of hours producing and arranging, but when it comes to mixing, when u have to do surgical corrections and u need a crispy clear representation of transients, they are not the most helpful monitors in the market. - A lot of people complain about the limiter reacting too soon. I make a lot of heavy bass club oriented music, and if you make the limiter work, then you have excess of sub low end in your mix or you are working at unhealthy spl. Never found a problem with this. - The highs, can say nothing bad about them. They are represented in a very accurate way, and the definition is more good. Now the bad..... - The serious and unacceptable weakness of this speakers? THE MIDS, the most important freq. range in music. I got these speakers 4 years ago, and although I have tried as hard as i can, I am still not able to "read" them. Mixing on them is like trying to look with a blindfold in your eyes. When I mix on them, I can have a huge amount of mid and mid-highs in the mix, or in contrast, a big lack of them, and on these speakers it sounds good anyway. After comes the shock moment when I play it through a grotbox, my car, my smartphone.... and say WHAT THE F....! AM I SO DEAF???? Then, I go to the mix again and turn those freqs. up or down around 4-5 dB's (a lot), and guess what? It still sounds pleasant, it only sounds "different", but still pleasant. Whatever I do on that freq range (600-5000Hz aprox.) will sound more or less acceptable, either I go +/-8 dB. This makes impossible for me to achieve a balanced mix without constantly having to play it through cheaper equipment, which surprisingly, reveals me troubles in the mix that should instead be revealing this 3900€ monitors, something they don't do. I find myself now looking for a solution, since working under this conditions is like chasing your own tale, getting nowhere. Instead of MIXING, it is like playing a guessing game. When I make an eq change I am insecure because i don't have a clue how it will be sounding in the real world. Honestly, this is mentally EXHAUSTING. It can probably be that my ears and these monitors just "don't fit", since a lot of u guys say only good things about them, (that's why I bought them) but I am thinking of selling them and getting some others. Also I am thinking of keeping them and buying a couple of new Auratone 5C or Avantone MixCube so they give me what the the O300 don't. Hope u guys find this as an interesting thread, and also would appreciate some advices about the Auratones/Avantones. Thank you for reading. 3 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 #2 BrianVengeance Lives for gear BrianVengeance's Avatar Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 584 1 Review written 🎧 10 years Mix cubes will help sort out the mid range. I use them with KH120 and they complement each other nicely and its alway nice to get a second opinion on the last 10-15%. Honestly though, if you've lost confidence in the O300s, it may be time to move on to something you're happier with. 1 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 #3 shobud Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 948 My Studio 🎧 15 years Same boat as you my friend. BUT, I kept my Dynaudio BM5a's so I do most of my mixing on those and then check on the O300's. I could not mix on the O300's alone... Dan 1 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 #4 wildplum Lives for gear wildplum's Avatar Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,344 My Recordings/Credits 🎧 20 years I’ve been using the O300 since the mid 2000s and I find them great to mix on. But then I don’t do any “heavy bass club oriented music”. I do mostly classical, folk/folk-rock/folk-punk, some jazz, country, light rock. For what I do, I find their response to be smooth and very accurate across the entire frequency spectrum. The mids in particular are very accurate. And my mixes translate very well. But I do agree with the OP. They would not be my first choice for the type of music he does. 2 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 #5 Deleted 51259b4 Posts: n/a My Studio i use O300 since 2009. IMHO, The major default is his lowend with high distortion below 150 Hz (with a sub is an another speaker) and his bad vertical directivity. After, this is a question of taste, I found the mid more beautiful than life. 1 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 #6 explorer Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,872 🎧 15 years Had the same issues with o300's. I think you would be less aware of the problems with more acoustic music, but club stuff really points these faults out. Got some Amphions now which are so much easier to mix on (and translate really well). Almost feels like cheating. 1 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent #7 just_manu 🎙️ Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 514 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by dinococcus ➡️ i use O300 since 2009. IMHO, The major default is his lowend with high distortion below 150 Hz (with a sub is an another speaker) and his bad vertical directivity. After, this is a question of taste, I found the mid more beautiful than life. I never found any problem with the lows, they always seemed very accurate to me. The vertical directivity is almos milimetric, u move 3 cm up or down from the spot and bye highs. 1 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent #8 just_manu 🎙️ Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 514 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by explorer ➡️ Had the same issues with o300's. I think you would be less aware of the problems with more acoustic music, but club stuff really points these faults out. Got some Amphions now which are so much easier to mix on (and translate really well). Almost feels like cheating. I've beem reading they are a kind of NS10 speaker, isn't it? Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent #9 just_manu 🎙️ Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 514 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by BrianVengeance ➡️ Mix cubes will help sort out the mid range. I use them with KH120 and they complement each other nicely and its alway nice to get a second opinion on the last 10-15%. Honestly though, if you've lost confidence in the O300s, it may be time to move on to something you're happier with. How happy are u with your KH120? Do they perform the same scoop mid "problem"? Are u happy with your mixcubes? Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent #10 explorer Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,872 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️ I've beem reading they are a kind of NS10 speaker, isn't it? Only because they really help you sort out the mids. Apart from that they have a much more extended frequency range than NS10s and are also very musical to listen to. Great tools and worth a demo. Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 #11 Deleted 51259b4 Posts: n/a My Studio NS10 is not a speaker, only a tool. hit smiley Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent #12 wildplum Lives for gear wildplum's Avatar Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,344 My Recordings/Credits 🎧 20 years Quote: Originally Posted by explorer ➡️ I think you would be less aware of the problems with more acoustic music, but club stuff really points these faults out. in my opinion, it is just the opposite. acoustic music requires, much more so than club, a very well balanced, detailed frequency response from the monitor throughout the frequency range. just what the O300 delivers. because of the emphasis/importance of high and low frequencies in club, it is easy to push the mids too much if you are using well balanced monitors (trying to compensate for the emphasised freqs- this is what i think was happening wrt the OP). in classical music, the much more importance placed on a smooth, balanced overall sound to the listening experience- each instrument sounding as it naturally should-you could never get away with, for example, letting the bass dominate the mix relative to the mi frequency instruments. 1 Share Reply Quote Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent #13 BrianVengeance Lives for gear BrianVengeance's Avatar Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 584 1 Review written 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️ How happy are u with your KH120? Do they perform the same scoop mid "problem"? Are u happy with your mixcubes? I haven't heard the O300s or KH310s to compare, but I wouldn't consider the mid scoop on the KH120s to be of the crippling variety. Most corrections I make in light of what the mix cubes uncover is usually within 0.5 dB and arguably subject to the moment's taste. May be some confirmation bias involved, but I think that the Avantones would be a great supplement for anyone who doesn't already have NS10s or similar. I can make decisions without them, but I'm glad they are there for a second opinion. Share Reply Quote Old 24th July 2015 #14 nnajar Registered User Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,313 🎧 15 years I do mostly jazz and acoustic music, and I have the old o110. I have the same issue with the mids and "everything sounding good" but I've learned how better to hear how they translate, so I'm doing good work with them. That said, you sound like a candidate for the pmc two.two series. I demoed the 6's a year ago and they are incredible. I will be buying a pair in the next year or so. Share Reply Quote Old 24th July 2015 #15 Jason rocks Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,407 My Studio 4 Reviews written 🎧 10 years Get a pair of Focals In don't care for clinical monitors but ones you enjoy listening music through that will provide the detail you need . Share Reply Quote Old 25th July 2015 #16 omegaomega Lives for gear omegaomega's Avatar Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 850 🎧 15 years I mix professionally using a pair of APS Aeons, hand made in Poland using drivers from Norway. I also use an active MixCube (a lot), a pair of B&W 601 powered by a Denon PMA-720AE amplifier, a pair of Logitech computer speakers with a sub, a couple of other computer speakers (all having different frequency responses), a tiny mono passive plugin speaker, a pair of passive tiny speakers wired out of phase, a X-Mini II mono capsule speaker and a Sony Hi-Fi system. Also I use my trusty pair of Sony MDR7509 headphones, a few other pairs and sometimes a BeyerDynamic DT770. If I only had the Aeons and the MixCube I could confidently mix on them. The material translates 99% of the time, I get no nasty surprises in cars or larger/smaller or lesser systems. The Aeons are very revealing, not flattering at all, the midrange is focused and exposed, they go down to 30Khz and I can "see" into the sound in such an extend I call them the "magnifying glass". Seriously, I've stopped using plugins I was using for years after getting these speakers, since I can so clearly hear the difference between reverb algorithms, tails and so on and half a db difference in eq sounds all too obvious on these speakers. The MixCube helps me balance mono sounds, the level of vocals, leads and of course make kick drums and basses audible in speakers that don't go very low. Re. the Q300, a friend uses them in his studio for many years. In one word I would describe them as "sugary", I think they are very flattering and his mixes suffer mostly in the mids/ low mids. Everything sounds great on them, and even if an impressive speaker, I wouldn't really like to mix on them. In my experience though, a MixCube is a necessity as is a second pair of monitors and a few other speakers, so you break the impression of your "good" pair and to get a perspective of your intended audience's systems as well as to check in real life how your precious main monitors translate. 1 Share Reply Quote Old 9th August 2015 #17 just_manu 🎙️ Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 514 🎧 10 years Thanks for your sharing omegaomega. This is the same feeling i have from my o300. My mixes are weird in the mids and low mids. This monitors are too forgiving. Share Reply Quote Old 17th August 2015 | Show parent #18 omegaomega Lives for gear omegaomega's Avatar Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 850 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️ Thanks for your sharing omegaomega. This is the same feeling i have from my o300. My mixes are weird in the mids and low mids. This monitors are too forgiving. You are welcome. I'm sure you can still mix well on the O300 as long as you have a second pair of monitors to double check everything and you learn to doubt their sound and cross reference everything. But really, if you can, check the AEONs out. And buy a single active MixCube. Not a pair. It takes ages to break in, but after it does, you'll be wondering how you ever managed to mix without using one! Share Reply Quote Old 17th August 2015 #19 pencilextremist Lives for gear pencilextremist's Avatar Joined: May 2014 Posts: 6,479 My Studio 9 Reviews written 🎧 10 years I wouldn't recommend the avantone mixcubes, they are nothing like auratones even though they claim to be like them, they sounded harsh on everything to me, and weren't very revealing at all, they aren't cheap either for what they are.... 1 Share Reply Quote Old 17th August 2015 | Show parent #20 omegaomega Lives for gear omegaomega's Avatar Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 850 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by pencilextremist ➡️ I wouldn't recommend the avantone mixcubes, they are nothing like auratones even though they claim to be like them, they sounded harsh on everything to me, and weren't very revealing at all, they aren't cheap either for what they are.... In my experience they need many many hours to break in. At the beginning I was wondering the same thing like you (was it worth it) but then the sound totally changed and opened up, like a completely different speaker. They are not cheap, yet I have found them to be very helpful when you mix, therefore, they are not expensive..abduction smiley Share Reply Quote Old 17th August 2015 | Show parent #21 pencilextremist Lives for gear pencilextremist's Avatar Joined: May 2014 Posts: 6,479 My Studio 9 Reviews written 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by omegaomega ➡️ In my experience they need many many hours to break in. At the beginning I was wondering the same thing like you (was it worth it) but then the sound totally changed and opened up, like a completely different speaker. They are not cheap, yet I have found them to be very helpful when you mix, therefore, they are not expensive..abduction smiley I much prefer neumann kh120a's, they are so accurate to me that everything else I've heard sounds too coloured or hyped, maybe I never waited long enough for them to 'break in' but I still hate them lol Share Reply Quote Old 17th August 2015 | Show parent #22 omegaomega Lives for gear omegaomega's Avatar Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 850 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by pencilextremist ➡️ I much prefer neumann kh120a's, they are so accurate to me that everything else I've heard sounds too coloured or hyped, maybe I never waited long enough for them to 'break in' but I still hate them lol The MixCube is a totally specialized speaker, that helps the engineer in a particular way during mixing, in addition to a pair of "normal" studio monitors like the KH120a. I can't imagine mixing on a MixCube on its own, of course not, yet for checking things in mono, played by a "full-range" speaker (without crossovers) and see how the mix and the bass drum, snare, bass, lead sounds, vocals etc translate is invaluable in my opinion. Also helps very much judging levels for vocals, rides, "piercing type" leads etc etc... Share Reply Quote Old 17th August 2015 #23 just_manu 🎙️ Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 514 🎧 10 years Why would you choose to use one single mixcube or auratone vs using two? Mixing in mono is very important but listening in stereo is necessary too Share Reply Quote Old 26th August 2015 | Show parent #24 omegaomega Lives for gear omegaomega's Avatar Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 850 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️ Why would you choose to use one single mixcube or auratone vs using two? Mixing in mono is very important but listening in stereo is necessary too You have your main pair of monitors for stereo. Mixing in mono is best made on a single speaker, in the way I see it and like to mix. You don't gain anything by mixing mono on two speakers, so why do it? I think it would be more confusing than useful to do that, yet I've seen other studios using two MixCubes. I just don't see the reason to mix on two of them, at all. Share Reply Quote Old 27th August 2015 | Show parent #25 BrianVengeance Lives for gear BrianVengeance's Avatar Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 584 1 Review written 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by omegaomega ➡️ You have your main pair of monitors for stereo. Mixing in mono is best made on a single speaker, in the way I see it and like to mix. You don't gain anything by mixing mono on two speakers, so why do it? I think it would be more confusing than useful to do that, yet I've seen other studios using two MixCubes. I just don't see the reason to mix on two of them, at all. Mix cubes aren't solely a mono tool - I'd imagine pairs of mix cubes are being used for stereo mixes... 2 Share Reply Quote Top Mentioned Manufacturers
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