K&H O300 Vs K&H120
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1st November 2011 #1 djinfuze 🎙️ Registered User Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 28 🎧 15 years K&H O300 vs K&H120 Hey I have a really small room (8 by 11) and I currently have focal solo6s and I am not totally in love with them. I find that my mixes are not translating that well and I thought I would really love the tweeter but I don't. That said, my day job I have been using K&H O300s and I absolutely love them. They are so easy on the ears and just tell you exactly what is wrong with a mix. Really awesome speakers. My question is twofold. One, are the K&H speakers definitely way too big for my small room (which is heavily bass trapped and treated fyi). Two, is the KH120 a viable alternative for the same kind of neutrality in a monitor? Tell me your thoughts. Share Reply Quote 1st November 2011 #2 AwwDeOhh Lives for gear 
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,569 🎧 15 years In that small a room, you're going to have issues no matter what speaker you use (physics). I would suggest finding a vendor that will allow you to audition both of them, and see which fits your envirnment best. You may find that the 120's higher LF rolloff is benifitial to your current place. Haven't tried the 120's but i love my o300's! Share Reply Quote 1st November 2011 | Show parent #3 Geoff Waddington Registered User Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 259 🎧 15 years I demo'd the O300's and KH120's and for my room (16x12x8) and my ears and my style of monitoring, the KH120's actually sounded better, to me (and the 3 others that were present). I' have a KH810 on order to fill out the bottom 2 octaves, but the KH120's do a very good job down to their cutoff (~55Hz -- low A on the Bass). Share Reply Quote 1st November 2011 | Show parent #4 Geoff Waddington Registered User Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 259 🎧 15 years Quote: Remember the K&H 0300D can be attenuated in the low, mid, and high and can therefore more easily be eq'dto your small room The KH120 has similar adjustments. Share Reply Quote 6th November 2011 | Show parent #5 djinfuze 🎙️ Registered User Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 28 🎧 15 years Thanks for the replies. Anyone else got any opinions on this matter? Bump. Share Reply Quote 6th November 2011 | Show parent #6 NathanEldred Gear Guru 
Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 10,555 My Studio 7 Reviews written 🎧 20 years If the 0300's are out of budget, or are too large for your room then the 120's are a good alternative. They will give you a similar vibe, just less information in the mids and low bass, and have less potential volume. It's debatable if the 0300's are too large for your room, it's definitely on the tight cusp though with it being 8x11, but having the room treated properly goes a long way. If you had the tweeters approx 4 feet L-R from each other (leaving 2 feet on each side of the speaker in your room...I'm not sure I'd go closer to the wall than that even with it being treated...if anything just for practical purposes to walk past the speakers), that puts you in a near field position (staying 4 feet away in the sweet spot/equilateral triangle). The 0300's can be used for near fields, but I think of them as mid fields and have mine setup @ 6ft which feels very comfortable to me, and give a complete picture of the 3 way to my ears (I'm guessing 6ft is technically the very end of nearfield and the start of midfield). So if your listening distance is 4 ft, that leaves you with 7 ft total for behind you and behind your speakers (I'd leave at least 3 ft for behind the speakers minimum) and that's pretty tight already. Probably go with the 120's based on all of the above. Share Reply Quote 6th November 2011 | Show parent #7 djinfuze 🎙️ Registered User Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 28 🎧 15 years Thanks for the info. Right now, I have Focal Solo6. I think the size of them is good, but I am not totally in love with how things are translating. Granted, I could do more treatment perhaps, but the only thing I worry about is that with the KH120s I lose a little bit of audibility down really low. This matters to me because I do mostly dance music production. I have to be able to hear where the sub bass sits. I find the focals tend to display this pretty well. Do you think in my smaller room, the KH120s would do this as well the O300s? Share Reply Quote 7th November 2011 | Show parent #8 DarkSky Media Lives for gear 
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 4,474 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by djinfuze ➡️ Hey I have a really small room (8 by 11)... Quote: Originally Posted by djinfuze ➡️ I have to be able to hear where the sub bass sits... Tough to say, but you have a fundamental problem (pun intended) in that, regardless of the speakers and the treatment, you need a larger room than that for the sub bass to develop properly. So anything you do in your current location will be a compromise to some extent. The reason is, basically that your room dimensions are shorter than the wavelength of sound frequencies below about 80Hz, so lower frequencies will be "folded", meaning that the reflection of a single wave will co-exist in the room with the other half (or part) of the self-same wave cycle, leading to more and more pronounced cancellations and single-wave multi-modes (self-cancellations) the further down you go. Everything below about 50Hz will be folded double or more than double in your current room (50Hz has a wavelength of 22ft 6in). While treatment helps a little, its effectiveness is greatest in the higher freqs, well above the sub-bass, and the amount of bass trapping you'd need to adequately trap (ie completely eliminate LF reflections) for the deepest frequencies - the ones that are a problem because of your room size - would be too large to fit in a room of that size. Cussed Laws of Physics! Also, adding a sub won't help much (and will likely end up exaggerating the room modalities in the low end) because a loud LF wave when folded to 180º will null to zero every bit as 'effectively' as a quieter one, so the sub has no effect in the nulled frequencies, but causes the low freqs that aren't nulling (or only partially nulled) to poke out further, giving the lows a deceptive woofiness that does nothing for mix decisions. Given all this, a better solution would be to accept that no monitors are ever going to give you a solid base (or rather, a "solid bass") for mix decisions in a room of that size, and instead use the space to get everything *else* happening in your mixes, and get used to using a decent pair of open backed headphones (open backs have less low end resonances and typically go deeper) to check the balance of the sub-bass. It may not be ideal, but it's about as good as it gets until you have more room at your disposal. To do this, you'll need to do a fair bit of listening (to a number of trusted reference sources) using your cans of choice, till you can get an "imprint" of how the lows should behave in them. It's a crutch, but it will save you in a tight spot (so to speak). Another trick for working in smaller-than-ideal spaces is to run a spectrum analyzer and watch/learn how it behaves on various known mixes, then use it as an additional point of reference for what's happening at the sub-bass end of your own mixes. Again, it's in no way a complete or ideal solution, but can give you another angle on the problem. 
Share Reply Quote 10th November 2011 | Show parent #9 djinfuze 🎙️ Registered User Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 28 🎧 15 years Thanks! Any more suggestions from people? I think if I were to go with smaller speakers, I would probably keep my focals and get a second set. Anybody have any killer suggestions other than the KH120 for small, super flat speakers? Share Reply Quote 10th November 2011 | Show parent #10 John Willett Gear Guru 
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 11,825 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by djinfuze ➡️ Thanks! Any more suggestions from people? I think if I were to go with smaller speakers, I would probably keep my focals and get a second set. Anybody have any killer suggestions other than the KH120 for small, super flat speakers? Geithain RL906 are similar in size to the KH120, but I have heard them compared to the O300. They are more expensive than the KH120, but cheaper than the O300 - so maybe worth considering as a "half way between the two" option. Certainly worth a listen, I would think. 
Also available in a wood finish:- 
Although the KH120 is at the very top of my list for the size and price - I keep hearing very good reports on the Geithains, so they should be worth a listen. Share Reply Quote 13th November 2011 | Show parent #11 wasserwerk Gear Head Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 38 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️ Geithain RL906 are similar in size to the KH120, but I have heard them compared to the O300. They are more expensive than the KH120, but cheaper than the O300 - so maybe worth considering as a "half way between the two" option. Certainly worth a listen, I would think. Also available in a wood finish:- Although the KH120 is at the very top of my list for the size and price - I keep hearing very good reports on the Geithains, so they should be worth a listen. I heard both and RL 906 is definitely more neutral and has much better stereo imaging. The difference ist of course not big (both are excelent monitors) but noticable. The price is twice. Share Reply Quote 13th November 2011 | Show parent #12 isma Registered User Joined: May 2011 Posts: 387 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by wasserwerk ➡️ I heard both and RL 906 is definitely more neutral and has much better stereo imaging. The difference ist of course not big (both are excelent monitors) but noticable. The price is twice. What about the LF's?? i can hardly imagine a better bass responde than the KH120's with a 5" woofer!! Share Reply Quote 14th November 2011 | Show parent #13 wasserwerk Gear Head Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 38 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by isma ➡️ What about the LF's?? i can hardly imagine a better bass responde than the KH120's with a 5" woofer!! RL 906 has 5" woofer too and its bass response is compared to size incredible deep, precisely and has very good impulse response. I found the bass on KH 120 with EQ on null slightly overblown (to much, not to deep). I had to set bass EQ on -2.5 (one step under null). The hights on KH 120 are too sharp. The first impression is incredible, but as I said this monitor is not so neutral as Geithan. Test it simply yourself! Share Reply Quote 15th November 2011 | Show parent #14 tpad Registered User Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 782 🎧 10 years Is there a US distributor for these? Share Reply Quote 15th November 2011 | Show parent #15 nnajar Registered User Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,313 🎧 15 years I have the K&H o110 monitors (precursor to the neumann 120's- and I bought them from Nathan at Atlas Pro Audio!) and I love them. I'm in a 11x12x8 room and while I'm doing mostly jazz type music (so I don't really have the sub bass needs of a dance producer) I have found my mixes translating very well. NN Share Reply Quote 15th November 2011 | Show parent #16 wasserwerk Gear Head Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 38 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by tpad ➡️ Is there a US distributor for these? Read post #66: https://gearspace.com/board/high-end...el-o300-3.html Share Reply Quote 16th November 2011 | Show parent #17 tpad Registered User Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 782 🎧 10 years Thanks. I don't know about the KH120s sounding too "sharp". Their tech data doesn't indicate anything that would contribute to that kind of characteristic. Particularly, the spectral decay characteristic is one of the best I've seen and doen't show any kind of ringing or resonance in the treble range. Maybe the Geithain's are in reality a little "dull" and that's what you're used to hearing. Share Reply Quote 16th November 2011 | Show parent #18 isma Registered User Joined: May 2011 Posts: 387 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by tpad ➡️ Thanks. I don't know about the KH120s sounding too "sharp". Their tech data doesn't indicate anything that would contribute to that kind of characteristic. Particularly, the spectral decay characteristic is one of the best I've seen and doen't show any kind of ringing or resonance in the treble range. Maybe the Geithain's are in reality a little "dull" and that's what you're used to hearing. The KH120's don't sound too sharp to my ears, (i have tinnitus so very sensitives ears, so i can't stand sharpness too much), some people actually think the opposite, they are less "shiny" than genelecs, adams, very smooth HF, it's also being said in pro reviews.. I actually prefer smooth HF, i think, it's actually neutral, and gen's or adam's have the reputation of boosting the HF's a bit. wasserwerk where did you listen to the KH120's? And by the way with your LF issue, the EQ is to help with the acoustic of he room, not to correct the monitors flaws, it's a great OPTION, if you work in a big enough room, with acoustic treatment, you won't need to touch the EQ, i've experienced it, great bass for such a small monitor. Me too, at home, in my mini home studio, i set up the LF at -2,5db but it's great to have the option to add bass when i work in a proper place where the KH120's sounds prefect with the LF at 0db... Would love to hear the geitain thow, but there is nowhere i can demo them in a couple of hundreds miles around.. Share Reply Quote 27th November 2011 #19 tpad Registered User Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 782 🎧 10 years A little update on the "KH120 sounds too sharp" issue. I've been listening to a KH120 for the last week, and excess sharpness is definitely NOT one of its attributes. Quite to the contrary. That little titanium tweeter is very smooth sounding, just like Neumann's measurement data suggests. The speaker has excellent transient response, and transients sound remarkeably lifelike. I did discover that if you place the speaker up over a large surface (like a tabletop) that some of the below axis radiation from the tweeter will reflect upward and combine with the direct ouput to create a rather unpleasant "sharp" sound. That's not unique to the KH120 but typical of any loudspeaker that employs non-concentric drivers. A little absorbtive foam in front and below the speaker will fix this kind of sharpness problem. Share Reply Quote 27th November 2011 #20 Geoff Waddington Registered User Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 259 🎧 15 years Yeah,I find them very neutral. Just added the KH 810 -- Extremely nice little combo !! Share Reply Quote 6th December 2011 #21 Allaboutrhythm Registered User Joined: May 2008 Posts: 148 🎧 15 years Does anyone know if the KH 810 is available in the US? Share Reply Quote 7th December 2011 #22 John Willett Gear Guru Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 11,825 🎧 15 years Quote: Originally Posted by Allaboutrhythm ➡️ Does anyone know if the KH 810 is available in the US? Yes - it's pretty new, though. Just give Neumann USA a ring and ask them - and you'll get a faster answer than asking here. Share Reply Quote 22nd April 2012 #23 DbassGroove Here for the gear Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 28 🎧 10 years Hi guys! I need some sugestions about monitor selection vs room size. My options are: Used K&H O300D at 1600€ the pair Used K&H O100 at 650€ the pair Or new neumann kh120 for 1000€ the pair after tax refound I have a small room WxLxH 2,75 m x 3,35 x 3.10m and i'm building broadband absorbers and Bass traps just to get a better balance. My question is: Are the O300 to big for the room? Do you think i'll have a bass mess with such a big 8" speaker? I have no chance to audition any of them in my room so it will be a " deaf " buy. I think the chance to get the o300 for that price is really tempting and maybe in some time I have the chance to move to a bigger room and in that case the o300 will be a better overall speaker and with extended bass response compared with the others? I'm not sure about which is the best option as far as room vs speaker size vs price vs a great deal. Any toughts/opinion? Many thanks! Share Reply Quote 22nd April 2012 #24 Russell Dawkins Lives for gear 
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,055 My Recordings/Credits My Studio 🎧 15 years At those prices I'd go with the 0300s or see if I could get a listen to the Geithain RL 906s referred to above. With the 0300s, the last thing to worry about is "bass mess"! It's very tidy and controlled. As to leaving minimum of 3' behind the speakers, I read that K&H themselves have recommended to one user placing them very near the wall and employing the bass cut (it cuts up to 9dB). I understand the max cut is intended to allow for the equivalent of soffit mounting. One of the reasons I chose the 0300s was for this versatility - that soffit mounting was part of the design intention. Share Reply Quote 22nd April 2012 #25 DbassGroove Here for the gear Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 28 🎧 10 years Good point. I can't place the speakers so far from the front wall in the actual setup, but I can try different options, these bass cuts, trapping, etc till I feel comfortable with the bass response. From what I have read in the manual the minimum recommended listening distance is 0.75 m and I have 1,2 m from my actual sweet spot so not bad I guess. Then is a matter of bass management more related to the room acoustics that I have to handle rather than this or those speakers...am I correct? Regarding the Geithain I have no idea where to find them or have a listen to them in Spain. I'll search... Any of them would be a great improvement in my monitoring experience since my actual monitors are entry level krk rockit 5 and the difference I think will be huge. Thanks for the info Cheers! Share Reply Quote 22nd April 2012 #26 Russell Dawkins Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,055 My Recordings/Credits My Studio 🎧 15 years When I compared the 0300 and KH120 side by side a few months ago with the idea of replacing the 0300s with the 120s plus a sub, since a couple of people have said they actually prefer the sound of the 120 to the 300, I ultimately preferred the 0300. I found the bass in the 120 to be less informative - a little resonant and vague and definitely less extended but, allowing for the effect of a high pass to the 120 when a sub was employed, I let that pass. What clinched it for me was a recording with a prominent marimba. This fairly jumped out of the 0300 (the 3" dome?) and was only just noticeable in the 120. This spoke to me of the midrange headroom afforded by that mid dome and which is so nice to have on hand for such sounds as a female voice (of the Dianna Krall variety) and part of what sent me to the 0300 in the first place - un-strained mids. Share Reply Quote 22nd April 2012 #27 Ossicle Lives for gear 
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,856 My Studio 🎧 15 years I'm in a very similar situation as the OP and DbassGroove: - Room 2.5 m x 3.3 m x 3 m (height) - Treated with GIK acoustics 6 tri corner traps, a monster trap, two 244 (yes the back corners is one big bass trap) and six 242's. - ugrading my A7's - doing "dance" music - after about a year of research I'm now considering between 120's and O300's So the room is not ideal but I believe its not impossible either. I've only heard the 120's in a shop directly comparing and much preferring them to A7X's. The deepest bass was much more audible with the 120's which was very surprising. The overall tone was much better too and the high freq were easier on the ear (I have slight tinnitus). I will move into a bigger room in about three years so O300's seem like the ones to get. I have an Adam sub8 but that didn't really work in my small room with my A7's. But I've read about the possible upgrade of the o300's coming this year so it seems wiser to wait for that. Share Reply Quote 22nd April 2012 | Show parent #28 emearg_s Registered User Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 351 🎧 10 years "Used K&H O300D at 1600€ the pair" Where and can I have pair ?????? Share Reply Quote 7th May 2012 | Show parent #29 uglypunk Registered User Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 49 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by emearg_s ➡️ "Used K&H O300D at 1600€ the pair" Where and can I have pair ?????? lol Share Reply Quote 30th March 2013 | Show parent #30 subbass Registered User Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 37 🎧 10 years Quote: Originally Posted by emearg_s ➡️ "Used K&H O300D at 1600€ the pair" Where and can I have pair ?????? Ha - I had similar luck years ago! By coincidence I was online as someone posted them in a forum, I think it was a matter of hours (if not minutes!). Share Reply Quote Top Mentioned Manufacturers -
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