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You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. Why do people hate NTR?

• Thread starter DubstheDuke
• Start date Dec 31, 2020

What is your opinion on NTR?

• I wouldn't read a story that contains it

  Votes: 5 18.5%

• I would still give the story a chance, but I probably wouldn't enjoy it.

  Votes: 6 22.2%

• I don't mind it, but I don't like it either

  Votes: 12 44.4%

• I quite enjoy stories that contain it

  Votes: 3 11.1%

• I love it

  Votes: 1 3.7%

• Total voters 27

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DubstheDuke

Well-known member

Joined May 19, 2020 Messages 304 Points 103 So, as far as I am aware, NTR is essentially a trope where you have a character who has a love interest (Usually the protagonist), and another character (Usually the antagonist) who steals said love interest from the character. This usually leads to a scenario of some sort of revenge plot. Now, I have noticed a lot of people who absolutely despise this trope within stories- to the point where people will completely ignore a story if it contains even a hint of NTR. My question is, why? I can understand hating the antagonist character, but in my opinion the more you hate a villain, the more satisfying it is when they are finally defeated. So? What is your opinion on NTR and why?

Leti

‎

Joined Jun 17, 2020 Messages 750 Points 133 It's just a trope. I don't hate it. The only thing I hate is existing. All is fair in love and war, stealing love interest doesn't violate the Geneva Conventions. If the stolen love interest is happier with the antagonist, then the protagonist should stop pursuing them. Or give them a reason to return to the protagonist's side. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

ArcanePunkster

Well-known member

Joined Jan 6, 2020 Messages 92 Points 58 Usually authors end up using it as a plot device to have hardcore smut in their stories instead of it actually revolving around logical thinking/scenarios. Last edited: Dec 31, 2020 D

DubstheDuke

Well-known member

Joined May 19, 2020 Messages 304 Points 103

ArcanePunkster said: Usually authors end up using it as a plot device to have hardcore smut in their stories instead of it actually revolving around logic thinking/scenarios. Click to expand...

I never thought of that. Interesting.

BlackFrost

Active member

Joined Dec 23, 2020 Messages 36 Points 33 At first, i didn't hate NTR that much, but after watching white album 2, i felt like NTR is painful to watch. Although i don't mind a little bit of NTR, when it becomes something like white album 2 or kimi no iru machi, that's when i hate it. Ok i'll admit that kimi no iru machi is technically not NTR, but it did break my heart to see the mc just dump his girlfriend to date another girl.

SternenklarenRitter

Representing Scholarship

Joined Jun 24, 2020 Messages 701 Points 133 Looking at your definition, perhaps it hits some people... personally. Maybe those people don't like being reminded they were crappy boyfriends/girlfriends to someone they dated in the past? I find extremely satisfying when a character puts their foot down and ditches a worthless/abusive/controlling partner. (This happens early in 'Lesbian Demon Lord Conquers the World') But I think NTR also covers when the protagonist goes around 'sampling' all the married folks who fill their strike zone (this happens in some of the "ero system" type smuts), and even more frequently, when the antagonist forcibly kidnaps the protagonist's love interest (the majority of 'Super Mario Something' games, and 'The Legend of Zelda: The Something of Else' games). In my somewhat limited experience (since I usually prefer the classically heroic types of story), NTR frequently, though not necessarily, also has smut and non-consenting participants, or even brainwashing. Those ones I tend to drop reading after only several chapters. As for which facet of NTR turns of so many readers, I can't even guess.

MrTiemos

DinoSir, thank you very much!

Joined Jul 15, 2019 Messages 138 Points 83 I agree with ArcanePunkster about the frequent poor usage of NTR, but I, and likely a fair amount of other readers, frequently self-insert into the stories we read. Of course, self-insertion would have the reader as the protagonist- as that is the perspective portrayed to us- and so we “feel the betrayal firsthand” when NTR is portrayed. In addition, in my case, I find the reason behind NTR to be... well, unreasonable the majority of the time. Not to say that unreasonable is bad, as that could provide realism to the story or mystery of the motivation, but ‘bland’ unreasonableness is as boring to a reader as overuse of deus ex machina. Even worse? There are plenty of times where the reason simply doesn’t exist, and the author is just waving the NTR around simply to progress the story. tldr: NTR is overused in a bad way, and the well-developed/well-written NTR is being shunned simply for being associated with the rest, similarly to Harems I suppose. Edit: Let me add that to most NTR typically refers to Netorare specifically. Netori is much more well received (as the protagonist isn’t the one being hurt, but is instead the one doing the stealing) and people often gloss over Netorase even though it IS different from Netorare.

Discount_Blade

Sent Here To Piss You All Off

Joined Jul 2, 2019 Messages 1,347 Points 153

DubstheDuke said: So, as far as I am aware, NTR is essentially a trope where you have a character who has a love interest (Usually the protagonist), and another character (Usually the antagonist) who steals said love interest from the character. This usually leads to a scenario of some sort of revenge plot. Now, I have noticed a lot of people who absolutely despise this trope within stories- to the point where people will completely ignore a story if it contains even a hint of NTR. My question is, why? I can understand hating the antagonist character, but in my opinion the more you hate a villain, the more satisfying it is when they are finally defeated. So? What is your opinion on NTR and why? Click to expand...

Usually, the protagonist DOESN'T defeat the antagonist. Normally, the antagonist skips off with the stolen love interest and thats how it ends. Thats kinda the whole reason this genre is disliked by most. This seems like an extremely stupid question. Unless you have a cuckold fetish, the answer to this seems retardedly obvious. Last edited: Dec 31, 2020

BlackFrost

Active member

Joined Dec 23, 2020 Messages 36 Points 33

MrTiemos said: I agree with ArcanePunkster about the frequent poor usage of NTR, but I, and likely a fair amount of other readers, frequently self-insert into the stories we read. Of course, self-insertion would have the reader as the protagonist- as that is the perspective portrayed to us- and so we “feel the betrayal firsthand” when NTR is portrayed. In addition, in my case, I find the reason behind NTR to be... well, unreasonable the majority of the time. Not to say that unreasonable is bad, as that could provide realism to the story or mystery of the motivation, but ‘bland’ unreasonableness is as boring to a reader as overuse of deus ex machina. Even worse? There are plenty of times where the reason simply doesn’t exist, and the author is just waving the NTR around simply to progress the story. tldr: NTR is overused in a bad way, and the well-developed/well-written NTR is being shunned simply for being associated with the rest, similarly to Harems I suppose. Edit: Let me add that to most NTR typically refers to Netorare specifically. Netori is much more well received (as the protagonist isn’t the one being hurt, but is instead the one doing the stealing) and people often gloss over Netorase even though it IS different from Netorare. Click to expand...

I don't mind NTR where the mc gets betrayed by the others, because it feels like it's everyone else's fault, so alteast i feel like the mc isn't in the wrong. The best example that i can think of would be the rising of the shield hero. But when the mc himself betrays someone or breaks their heart, that's when i hate it. Because now it feels like the mc is in the wrong while everyone else is right.

Jamminrabbit

Well-known member

Joined Dec 24, 2019 Messages 198 Points 103

ArcanePunkster said: Usually authors end up using it as a plot device to have hardcore smut in their stories instead of it actually revolving around logic thinking/scenarios. Click to expand...

isnt that the point of of NTR genre, just like futanari

ArcanePunkster

Well-known member

Joined Jan 6, 2020 Messages 92 Points 58

Jamminrabbit said: isnt that the point of of NTR genre, just like futanari Click to expand...

Yes Netorare, Netori and Netorase all revolve around smut to a certain degree. What I meant is authors just implement it for shock value or simply to have a reason to include sex in their story when it clearly doesn't need it. I've read quite a few web novels where they have great premises at first then just add NTR and ruin it. Last edited: Dec 31, 2020

MrTiemos

DinoSir, thank you very much!

Joined Jul 15, 2019 Messages 138 Points 83

Jamminrabbit said: isnt that the point of of NTR genre, just like futanari Click to expand...

A bit unfair to compare the two, but I do see your point. I say it’s unfair to compare them as NTR does not revolve around sexual acts but rather relationships, which can be sexual but doesn’t need to be. Futanari on the other hand focuses on the person’s genitalia, which... is generally sexual. Not to say that it can’t be otherwise, as I’m certain the psychological aspects of being ‘abnormal’ would apply here. Or we can completely disregard possibilities and say that everything is sexual in some nature, therefor all topics are relevant and equally meaningfully meaningless...

BlackFrost

Active member

Joined Dec 23, 2020 Messages 36 Points 33 I find an NTR that brings a relationship would be rather enjoyable(not all cases, but some are okay.) But when it gets sexual with nudity and stuff, i hate that.

ArcanePunkster

Well-known member

Joined Jan 6, 2020 Messages 92 Points 58 But in general I'm not too bothered with NTR if the love interest is open about leaving the MC of their own free will. The type of NTR that I'm not comfortable with is when it involves brainwashing, mind control or mind break tactics by the antagonist. Personally that stuff sort of bothers me for unknown reasons as I don't relate this to something I've experienced in real life.

LostLibrarian

Well-known member

Joined Jan 27, 2019 Messages 709 Points 133 I would say a bit part of the hate of NTR is just the way it is included. It's often more a fetish, a "shocking moment", or something that is meant to "hurt" the reader/viewer. And - not really surprising - those things don't go over that well with readers, who often look for entertainment to escape this shitty world. The big majority of "hate" for NTR comes from the majority of "feel good"-readers who stumble across it and don't expect the ending. For those people it's like watching a nice children movie, before it turns into a horror flick... There was also a time where more mainstream authors ended their series in frustration with some kind of (low-level) NTR just to get back at the publisher/editor or even unsupporting readers. Nowadays there are even modern light novel contracts with certain publishers where you have to sign at the beginning that NTR won't become an issue. Because a target audience burned once too often will look elsewhere... To me the biggest problem is the execution. It's often just for pure shock value or as cause for a one-sided revenge plot. It's the equivalent to rape in most fiction. It's not about character development, about the aftermath, about the actual reasons... it's lazy writing to get the most shock with the least amount of work.

BlackFrost

Active member

Joined Dec 23, 2020 Messages 36 Points 33

LostLibrarian said: I would say a bit part of the hate of NTR is just the way it is included. It's often more a fetish, a "shocking moment", or something that is meant to "hurt" the reader/viewer. And - not really surprising - those things don't go over that well with readers, who often look for entertainment to escape this shitty world. The big majority of "hate" for NTR comes from the majority of "feel good"-readers who stumble across it and don't expect the ending. For those people it's like watching a nice children movie, before it turns into a horror flick... There was also a time where more mainstream authors ended their series in frustration with some kind of (low-level) NTR just to get back at the publisher/editor or even unsupporting readers. Nowadays there are even modern light novel contracts with certain publishers where you have to sign at the beginning that NTR won't become an issue. Because a target audience burned once too often will look elsewhere... To me the biggest problem is the execution. It's often just for pure shock value or as cause for a one-sided revenge plot. It's the equivalent to rape in most fiction. It's not about character development, about the aftermath, about the actual reasons... it's lazy writing to get the most shock with the least amount of work. Click to expand...

Yes exactly. It's all about the unexpected hurt we feel at the most unexpected times

LostLibrarian

Well-known member

Joined Jan 27, 2019 Messages 709 Points 133

MrTiemos said: I say it’s unfair to compare them as NTR does not revolve around sexual acts but rather relationships, which can be sexual but doesn’t need to be. Click to expand...

Which is only half-true. The meaning of NTR comes from "to sleep (with someone)" and "to steal" and is directly taken from the fact, that a loved one is either forced to sleep with someone or does so out of his own will. The core meaning of NTR actually revolves around sexual acts and how the pleasure out of that corrupts a person. Yeah, we also have more "low-level NTR" without sexual acts where it is about the relationship, losing of trust, breaking up, etc. But that is more an evolution through the genres (much like how "yandere" became "fairly jealous girl")...

SternenklarenRitter

Representing Scholarship

Joined Jun 24, 2020 Messages 701 Points 133

MrTiemos said: Or we can completely disregard possibilities and say that everything is sexual in some nature, therefor all topics are relevant and equally meaningfully meaningless... Click to expand...

The tribulations of being a fleshy species...

BackWoodsJ_ACK

Birbs, dog, and burbers

Joined Sep 24, 2020 Messages 165 Points 83 I didn't hate NTR until I started reading Korean pornwhas(prolly butchered that). The levels in some of them were crazy. I read them for story, stayed for the henti scenes and left when the hardcore NTR came.

BenJepheneT

Syro - Aphex Twin

Joined Jul 14, 2019 Messages 5,347 Points 233 To me, it's personal preference. I don't like NTR as to me, it feels like cheap revenge on the expense of others. Aside from pure revenge fantasies (Redo of Healer is an admittedly decent example), if I want to read sad media I'd go for shit like Pun². That said, unfairly judging a piece of work SOLELY because it has NTR is a brainlet move. Why would you willingly read something that YOU KNOW will contain elements that you don't like in it? If the story doesn't inform of its NTR elements, that's a whole different story, but to touch a steaming kettle and complain it's hot isn't a real good look to you. But, on the other hand, if your story has NTR and still manages to keep me reading, you must've done something real good to keep me hooked despite the cucking.

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