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wagonman W i just read in my oct issue of autombile magazine that the new x5 will be 7 inches longer than the current model and 2 inches wider. the current x5 has a cargo capacity that is actually smaller than a 3 series wagon. the new sizing only adds an 8% increase in cargi capacity BUT allows for the much sought after (and market pressured) third row of seats. these third row of seats can accomodate people up to but not exceeding 5 ft 6 inches. in other words children, or many women, or shorter men. now, call me crazy or i am missing something but is this a joke? why the h--- would anyone want to buy an big clunky suv that is now 7 inches longer and 2 inches wider than the current model with only an 8% increased cargo area? this makes no sense to me whatsoever and is in fact yet another plug for the focused verstaility of the e61 wagon. while its true the wagon cannot hold 7 passengers it is far more useful than this new beast called the x5. i say skip the x5 buy the e60 sedan and a ford expedition! #1 · Sep 12, 2006 i just read in my oct issue of autombile magazine that the new x5 will be 7 inches longer than the current model and 2 inches wider. the current x5 has a cargo capacity that is actually smaller than a 3 series wagon. the new sizing only adds an 8% increase in cargi capacity BUT allows for the much sought after (and market pressured) third row of seats. these third row of seats can accomodate people up to but not exceeding 5 ft 6 inches. in other words children, or many women, or shorter men. now, call me crazy or i am missing something but is this a joke? why the h--- would anyone want to buy an big clunky suv that is now 7 inches longer and 2 inches wider than the current model with only an 8% increased cargo area? this makes no sense to me whatsoever and is in fact yet another plug for the focused verstaility of the e61 wagon. while its true the wagon cannot hold 7 passengers it is far more useful than this new beast called the x5. i say skip the x5 buy the e60 sedan and a ford expedition! Sort by Oldest first Oldest first Newest first Most reactions #2 · Sep 12, 2006 hey wagon fans? does nobody care?:thumbup: #3 · Sep 12, 2006 I say buy the E60 wagon and a 335i coupe.... #4 · Sep 12, 2006 Could not agree with you more. That's what prompted me to buy my E39 Touring over the X5 in 2002. I couldn't even get 4 sets of golf clubs in the back of the X5. It is possible in the back of the touring. When I bought my E60, the touring had not been released yet or I would have bought another. When the opportunity came to get an E61 last week, I jumped on it. IMO, the X5 is too big, too heavy and does not have enough interior space for the money when compared to either the E61 or the E91. #5 · Sep 13, 2006 As an E61 owner who has two kids and dog, I was intrigued by the photos of the new X5 third row seat and the possibility of hauling more people. That being said, the X5 would have to be pretty great to make me give up my wagon.

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#6 · Sep 13, 2006 I never really cared for the previous gen X5, but I could definitely go for the E70 X5. We'd definitely be able to make good use of the 3rd row seating in the near future. Although I'm intrigued by this BMW "V5" Mercedes R-class competitor that's supposedly coming out too. Hmmmmm.... #7 · Sep 15, 2006 Never been a fan of SUVs myself. Just a big gas guzzler and people/load hauler. However, in the case of the X5, apperantly, there's not much load hauling capacity. Even less than the 3-Series? I never knew that, and find it quite shocking. Tourings/Estates all the way! :thumbup: #8 · Sep 15, 2006 Thing is, for most people, the third won't be used. I would keep the third row seats permanently folded down. That way, you have much more cargo space. At least, that will be my plans end of next year when I order mine ! #9 · Sep 15, 2006 The "X" vs. "Touring" debate will never end. :dunno: Several years ago, my wife and I chose and X5 over the E39 Touring because it had more room in the second row for child seats - we had two back there (trust me, there is a lot more actual usable room in the second row of the X5). We actually went to the dealer to purchase the Touring, and changed our minds when we installed the child seats. Granted, the Touring had more luggage capacity (one major reason we are driving an XC90 now...). In addition to the second row, it was nice being able to jump curbs, off-road (yes, I did), and see over traffic from the vantage of an SUV. Of course, fuel economy sucked (15 mpg with the 3.0-liter). Driving a Touring, you'd never know you were in a "station wagon" from the driver's seat. The handling was superb, braking incredible (much less weight), and ride smooth. I really, really, liked the Touring... but the second row was too "sedan" and not enough "SUV" for us. You can't fault a Touring (but it sure is easy to blast an SUV). In two years (when I can get out of my leases) I will have the best of both worlds - the new X5 and an E60 sedan. Perfect. #10 · Sep 18, 2006 3rd row seat is much overrated - in the 3 years we had our XC90, we used it maybe 5 times. Never miss it now that we are driving an X5. Actually, we are surprised at how much we can fit in the back of the X5, particularly when you pull the privacy screen out. We take it to the 4wd beach all the time, and it easily swallows 4 beach chairs, folding picknic table, 3 skim boards, sun umbrella and stand, cooler, towels, propane grill, lacrosse sticks, etc. etc. I agree that most men would find the Touring a comparable or better choice. However, most women I know feel significantly safer in an SUV. My wife chose the X5 over the E61 for that reason. I'm pretty sure she'll make the same choice and opt for the new X5 in 2 years. Fine with me - that means I don't need a separate dedicated vehicle to tow the boat. #11 · Sep 18, 2006

quackbury said: 3rd row seat is much overrated - in the 3 years we had our XC90, we used it maybe 5 times. Click to expand...

We bought out XC90 in October of 2005. Eleven months ago. We have used the third row three times. THREE TIMES. THREE!!! It is always folded flat. Now, we do enjoy the extra space that third row forces on the cargo area... 1 Reply #16 · Sep 20, 2006 In a scary case of life imitates fiction.... On our way out to dinner last night, a high school girl in a little Korean deathtrap (Kia Spectum? Not sure), pulled out from a stop sign into the path of an oncoming dump truck. (I am NOT making this up - we were the next car in line behind her). Luckily, the dump truck driver was alert and swerved into the oncoming lane to miss her (and even more luckily, there was no oncoming traffic at the time). No question in my mind my kids would have seen their first fatality if he had hit her. And she would have been just as dead if she had been driving a Lotus Elise. If she'd been in an X5, she'd at least have had a fighting chance. Like I said above, there's a lot to be said for the "passive safety" benefits of a high seating position, a high beltline and a couple thousand extra pounds of steel. #17 · Sep 20, 2006

quackbury said: Luckily, the dump truck driver was alert and swerved into the oncoming lane to miss her (and even more luckily, there was no oncoming traffic at the time). No question in my mind my kids would have seen their first fatality if he had hit her. And she would have been just as dead if she had been driving a Lotus Elise. If she'd been in an X5, she'd at least have had a fighting chance. Like I said above, there's a lot to be said for the "passive safety" benefits of a high seating position, a high beltline and a couple thousand extra pounds of steel. Click to expand...

That is some serious stuff. You've said things that make sense and echo things I've experienced wrt size, beltline, etc. I keep one of everything except a two seater: E60 sedan, 4Runner (wife's), Sierra Denali Pickup. I keep my motorcycle where I can't ride it. When traveling at night on weekends (fast and inebriated drivers) or during rush hour (harried and distracted drivers) through the city for daycare pick up, I supersize my transportation and take the truck. People can see me better and they avoid me by going around or not jumping out in front. I don't bully other drivers, but it's still a fact that for me the size acts like a preemptive safety feature. In the late 90s I saw a chiropracter and he said he saw lots of whiplash cases from people in large pick ups because the frames are so firm that the energy is transferred to the occupant. But they didn't die and were releatively unharmed based on his anecdote...they were alive to go to a chiro appt. I feel that SUVs offer similar protection, though perhaps not on that scale and of course I'll give the caveat re overcorrection and rollover. And here's my story: my wife and then 18 mo old son were creamed from behind by a Durango going approx 35 mph while she was stopped at a light a few cars from the intersection - the light turned green, but traffic did not enter the intersection because traffic was jam packed on the other side so they were in a holding pattern. He was reaching for a phone on his way home from work and never saw a thing. Bam! Uninsured, unregistered, not drunk. Baby seat had been installed by California Highway Patrol. We've had the CHP or Livermore Police Dept do all our initial installs for the 3 vehicles, though my wife impressed them and now she can uninstall/install with confidence. 4Runner took the hit and took them home - scared, but safe and mostly sound. We were insured for uninsured motorist of course, and my son tripped when he ran for about 48 hours - the rear seat was pushed forward, momentarily hitting his foot and jarring his leg while seated in the rear facing position. At a baby seat safety check, the police had told us a few months earlier that even though we could and did turn him forward facing once he met the minimum criteria, that he should remain rear-facing until he meets the maximum criteria for rear-facing. They quoted the diameter of the spinal nerve and how much force it can withstand and still stretch and not break, and of course you don't have to be a physicist (sp) to know that a head snapping forward is not a good thing. So, scared sh**less, we turned all our seats back around to rear-facing. If he were in a small car, forget it, or facing forward...hmmm, I don't even want to go there. Clearly, this is all a mixed bag, I mean the Durango guy didn't see my wife in her SUV, but I will take it over a low slung sedan that folks can't see as well, or may be inclined to bully, or that a jacked up pick up or large service truck would intrude over the door with their fender. As far as 3rd rows, what I don't understand is people who use 3rd rows where the people's heads are inches from the rear window. There is no protection. I've seen this in Volvo station wagons and small mini-vans. :dunno: Show more replies 0 Reply #19 · Sep 21, 2006 God, that is scary! And my personal observation (with no statistics to confirm or refute it) is that the problem with domestic SUV structure isn't necessarily confined to rear impacts. One of the big reasons we stopped buying Grand Cherokees is that every time I saw a Jeep that had been in a rollover, the A pillar had collapsed all the way back to the B pillar. (Remember Seymore Cray, inventor of the Cray supercomputer? Photos of the Jeep he died in got me started looking at rolled-over GC''s on flatbeds and in salvage yards. Pretty darn gruesome). In all those Firestone rollovers, I never stopped to see if the Explorers had the same problem as the GC's, but I bet they did / do. One of the reasons we got an XC90 was that I really liked the boron-hardened steel Volvo put in the A pillars and windshield header. Looking at my X5's structure, I suspect it's just as robust. BTW in your research for the story, did you see statistics for fatalities in the 3rd row of minivans and/or station wagons? I was really spooked at the so-called 3rd row seats in Audi, Volvo and Mercedes wagons - no way in the world I would want my kids riding back there! #20 · Sep 21, 2006 The U.S. Government doesn't track accident statistics for third row passengers at this time, so information is pretty sketchy. Regarding the "boron" steel Volvo is using these days... I bet you never knew this... "...An area of concern in space frame and monocoque chassis is the ever-increasing use of microalloy or boron steel--another safety feature used to strengthen automobiles for lateral- and frontal-impact collisions. This metal is extremely strong, due, in part, to its high phosphorous content. It is placed in the subframe cowl and cross member of new vehicles. A major difficulty for rescue personnel is that boron steel also is located in vehicle doors to meet side impact protection standards, which sometimes makes door displacement a very difficult task. Some hydraulic cutters will not cut through boron steel, and attempting to cut it with a reciprocating saw is futile. Proper technique and spreader placement are important to roll the striker bolt latch and open the door. Inserting the spreader 90 degrees to the door and spreading will only tear the metal around the door and collapse the B-post. The bars in the door will withstand much greater force than a hydraulic spreader can exert." [Excerpt from "Anatomy of Vehicle Extrication" - By Gordon Sweetnam] Bottom line is vehicle engineering. Volvo insists on a "crush space" behind the third row, so the third row is moved forward and the the third row legroom deliberately suffers - it was intentionally engineered this way. They also designed their vehicles with the passenger "box" to include the area between the A and D pillars (most vehicles just design for passengers between the A and C pillars and they throw the third row back there as an afterthought). The two major issues in third row safety are crush space (you need something to absorb the impact) and head restraints that are tall, and strong, enough to prevent the passenger's heads from going through the tailgate. Notice how low head restraints are in the third-row of many SUV's? It's nuts. Now look at the beefy head restraints and crush space in the XC90 and new X5. That's engineering. When the article is released (in a month or so), I will post it here. #21 · Sep 21, 2006

Emission said: When the article is released (in a month or so), I will post it here. Click to expand...

Thank you I look forward to it, and thanks very much for the info above. :thumbup: 2 Replies #26 · Jul 15, 2009 I wrote it for J.D. Power and Associates: http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/Third-Row-Seat-Safety Let me know if you have any questions. I'd be happy to answer them for you. (When I wrote the article, I had an XC90. These days, my wife drives an X5 -- without the third row option.) - Mike Insert Quotes Post Reply

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