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G12, G12+, G12++? Which is it?

• Thread starter IndigoBlueWagon
• Start date Sep 18, 2008

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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW We got a truck shipment yesterday that was supposed to include 10 cases of VW OEM G-12+, VW PN G012A8FM1. We received Pentosin G-12 instead. So when I called my supplier to find out what happened, I ended up calling my dealer for clarification. I learned there are several things happening out there with VW coolant, most of them confusing. First, there are four types of G-12: - G012A8FA4, the good old G-12 - G012A8FM1, G12+ for A5 chassis cars, but no longer available - G012A8GM1, called G12++, replacing G12+ - G012A8FM2, brand new, not available yet, probably for '09 cars. We know that G-12+ can be used in cars calling for G-12, but not vice-versa. I was also told that the G12++ is specified for the 2.0T VWs from '07-09. My questions: - Do we now use G-12++ where G-12+ was formerly specified, since it's no longer available? - Can G-12+ and G-12++ be mixed? - What is the new coolant? Will it be released? When and for what engines? - What does the new '09 TDI use? I'm posting this hear because neither my dealer or my supplier could answer these questions. I don't really want to wade into the land of VWoA, and thought someone here might know. My big concern is for cars calling for G-12+: I want to be sure they get the right replacement coolant. Anyone? TIA, Peter, TDIParts

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg

Joined Oct 11, 2000 Location MA TDI ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta Hey, what about G12 PLUS !!?? Let the confusion begin !

leicaman

Top Post Dawg

Joined Dec 24, 2004 Location Sheboygan, Wisconsin TDI 2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP Here's one thing someone might want to check out. Get a container of the newest thing which according to Peter is G12++ and get a container of the newest, yet unnamed coolant. Look at the documentation that is stuck on the VW bottle with a sticker, open up the label and read it through. When G12+ came out I bought a bottle to have for my Passat and at the time there were questions as whether it was compatible with G12. Turned out either could be interchanged and mixed according to the label. It seemed that the label is the true source of info on coolant compatibilities. Hey just when we thought we knew VW coolant well, they change the rules of the game again. R

Ros56

Active member

Joined Aug 12, 2008 Location Long Island, NY TDI 2009 TDI G12 09 Tdi G12 on expasion tank 09 I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW

Ros56 said: G12 on expasion tank 09 Click to expand...

Interesting, because that's what the dealer said they would use in an '09 if they needed to add coolant. They don't have an official spec yet on which product to use, but G12 (not Plus) was their answer. The newest product (G012A8FM2) isn't available yet, so I can't compare labels. BTW, this conversation with VW followed one last week when I learned that in addition to the G 060 manual transmission lubricant, (which replaced G 052), there is a G 070 lubricant, which is indicated, for example, for a 2001 Golf TDI 5-speed, but not for the specific transmission code for that car. Gotta love it. Last edited: Sep 18, 2008 I

irvingj

Veteran Member

Joined Nov 28, 2006 Location Etna,NH TDI 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI (PD/BEW) Greetings, Indigo-- A quick question: After finally installing the TDI Heater I bought last fall, I lost about 2 cups of the pink stuff. Not realizing the pitfalls at that point, I drained the remainder of a leftover bottle of 50-50 mix of Zerex (from a previous vehicle) into the Jetta. It was only about 1 cup, and I added a bit of water after that to bring fluid level up above the low level alarm.... Have I committed a major no-no by introducinging about a half cup of "Brand X" instead of G12?? (Will I have to flush & refill?) How are things in MA? My Shadow Blue wagon's still working fine, now about 45K on the clock. Got 32+mpg last summer while pulling 1750 lbs of U-Haul trailer & furniture back from MO-- a lot less than the usual 47, but not bad.... The best part was that the thing never slowed down on hills, even with that load and the A/C running! I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW My advice would be to drain the coolant and refill it with G12+ or ++. The G12 is specifically designed to keep the coolant lines clean and not introduce anything that can cause corrosion of any of the parts touched by the coolant. I wouldn't trust anything else to perform as well. That's cool about towing the trailer--but I bet it would have been more fun (albeit slower) in the Peugeot. I wanted one of those wagons in the worst way. Had a 505 sedan, but never found a wagon.

doonboggle

Veteran Member

Joined Jul 2, 2007 Location Elgin, Texas TDI 2006 Jetta w/Taktonic 6sp. transmission, Silver; 1981 Rabbit pick-up O-boy!!! Have on the top of my list to order G12 for our two (2) 2006 Jetta TDIs ... and now this. Have not ordered any previously. Want to have some on-hand should the need arise. Soooooooooo........ what should I order????? We have both an early version and a later version; or does that make a difference. So which G12 yada yada yada ??? Very confusing. TIA [Also have windshield fluid on list. Wondering if will go thru this process for it.]

IndigoBlueWagon said: We got a truck shipment yesterday that was supposed to include 10 cases of VW OEM G-12+, VW PN G012A8FM1. We received Pentosin G-12 instead. So when I called my supplier to find out what happened, I ended up calling my dealer for clarification. I learned there are several things happening out there with VW coolant, most of them confusing. First, there are four types of G-12: - G012A8FA4, the good old G-12 - G012A8FM1, G12+ for A5 chassis cars, but no longer available - G012A8GM1, called G12++, replacing G12+ - G012A8FM2, brand new, not available yet, probably for '09 cars. We know that G-12+ can be used in cars calling for G-12, but not vice-versa. I was also told that the G12++ is specified for the 2.0T VWs from '07-09. My questions: - Do we now use G-12++ where G-12+ was formerly specified, since it's no longer available? - Can G-12+ and G-12++ be mixed? - What is the new coolant? Will it be released? When and for what engines? - What does the new '09 TDI use? I'm posting this hear because neither my dealer or my supplier could answer these questions. I don't really want to wade into the land of VWoA, and thought someone here might know. My big concern is for cars calling for G-12+: I want to be sure they get the right replacement coolant. Anyone? TIA, Peter, TDIParts Click to expand...

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg

Joined Jan 10, 2004 Location Barrie, Ont, Canada TDI '05 Jetta TDI Wagon Whatever you order, mix it 50/50 with distilled water. I

irvingj

Veteran Member

Joined Nov 28, 2006 Location Etna,NH TDI 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI (PD/BEW) Peter-- I really loved that 504D-- not real quick on the start-up, but once rolling it did OK. Got about 37mpg going across Kansas running the A/C for all it was worth, not bad for a "wagon" rated at just under 3/4 ton load capacity. Seats were marvelous (sheepskin covered), handled beautifully, but there were SOME aspects of that car that had me scratching my head and wondering "what the h--- they were thinking when they did that?" --more than once! Somebody once told me that "Peugeot" was French for "slow".... I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW As my brother says, "the French copy no one, and no one copies the French." My favorite item with the 505 was drivers trying to figure out how to blow the horn. And donboggle, I'd get the G12++ when it is available. We expect some tomorrow.

ibanix

Veteran Member

Joined Jul 6, 2007 Location New Hartford, Connecticut TDI 2002 Jetta 5spd One wonders if VW does this crap deliberately to make people go to the dealer. I mean, how hard is it to make clearly different names for the coolants, and write a "this works with this" guide?

airwolf

Veteran Member

Joined Jul 25, 2006 Location Cassopolis, MI TDI None When I went to the dealer to get coolant they gave me the normal G-12. I have since put about a cup of it in cut with a cup a distilled water. G012A8FA4 is the part number on the bottle. Looking through my manual it says just g-12 it does not say anything about G-12+ or ++. Also, it states you can mix it with the Purple G-12 or the Pink G-12. The stuff that was in my reservoir was pink as well as the stuff in the bottle. The manual mentions something about the fluid turning brown if something incompatible was added. I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW Ibanix, I don't think this will drive you to the dealer because the dealers don't know the products' applications. Here's the plus plus The back label has mixing instructions, and if you open the pages underneath there are warnings in many languages, but that's it.

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor

Joined Oct 16, 2005 Location Newark, OH TDI None G12 Plus Plus is clearly G12 with classes. Explanation for the non-geeks.

ibanix

Veteran Member

Joined Jul 6, 2007 Location New Hartford, Connecticut TDI 2002 Jetta 5spd

bhtooefr said: G12 Plus Plus is clearly G12 with classes. Explanation for the non-geeks. Click to expand...

I wanted to say something about how G12++ would be == G13, but I felt that would be too geeky. Thanks for knocking that hurdle down for me.

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor

Joined Oct 16, 2005 Location Newark, OH TDI None Besides, G12++ would increment the value of the variable G12, not change G12 to G13.

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member

Joined Jun 20, 1998 Location Sterling, MA. USA TDI 2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700 Thanks, but I'll wait for the ToofTek G12*. The G12* is 50% better than the G12+ for that added degree of security, without the necessity of using the G12++. The hierarchy progession: G12, (zero) G12l, (one, but like WD39, never released publicly) G12+,(two) ToofTek G12*, (three), now G12++ (four). Logically the next issue will be G12l++, or the equivalent ToofTek G12x*

MikeS_18

Top Post Dawg

Joined Feb 18, 2005 Location Bow, NH TDI '03 Jetta Wagon, '13 Passat SE, '64 Ford Econoline

IndigoBlueWagon said: My favorite item with the 505 was drivers trying to figure out how to blow the horn. Click to expand...

you bash on the end of the turn signal stalk! So inituitive. That was fun trying to do when you're turning the wheel. I thought all the 505's rusted away...

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor

Joined Oct 16, 2005 Location Newark, OH TDI None A few weeks ago (right after TDIFest, actually,) I saw a mostly intact gasser 505 wagon at Pick-N-Pull...

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member

Joined Jun 20, 1998 Location Sterling, MA. USA TDI 2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700 The Sonett's horn is the "turn" stalk. Left turn: Beep. Right turn: Beep. Push for high beams: Beep. Pull for low or passing: Beep. The directional is on the right side of the wheel, but the ignition is on the left. The door lock buttons are on the lower rear corner of the doors. The shifter is on the column. The shift pattern requires movement in three axes to select all the gears. The garage I use for annual inspection has given up. They now recognize the car and insist that I drive it in, operate the devices, and back it out. I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW It must be that British engine bleeding over into the electricals. Like my A-H Sprite, you pulled the heater knob out to turn it off, pushed it in to turn it on. One click to the right was the fan (low speed, low power). Close the little flapper doors in the footwells to direct the (somewhat) warm air to the windscreen. Made sense because the British probably have the heat on all the time. V

validius

Lacking in ZDDP

Joined Oct 9, 2006 Location Grand Rapids, Michigan TDI 1997 GTI TDI

bhtooefr said: A few weeks ago (right after TDIFest, actually,) I saw a mostly intact gasser 505 wagon at Pick-N-Pull... Click to expand...

There is a almost perfect 505 sedan in its way to the junkyard out here... it just needs a motor.

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor

Joined Oct 16, 2005 Location Newark, OH TDI None Unless I'm unaware of this particular Sonett, the engine would be either Swedish (if it's the 2-stroke,) or German (if it's the Ford V4,) right? I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW I thought the Ford V4 was a British tractor engine.

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor

Joined Oct 16, 2005 Location Newark, OH TDI None http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taunus_V4_engine

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member

Joined Jun 20, 1998 Location Sterling, MA. USA TDI 2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700

IndigoBlueWagon said: I thought the Ford V4 was a British tractor engine. Click to expand...

German in the Saab, built in Cologne. The British built Ford V4, as used in the Transit, wasn't as reliable due to different block and cooling passages. But yes, it's still a tractor engine. Still available new from Ford Industrial. The same engine has been in production since the mid-50's, and was used in the 1962 mid engined Mustang prototype. What's the new parts supply like for the Awful-Helpme Sprite engine?

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor

Joined Jul 29, 2001 Location Versailles, Kentucky TDI 2015 Audi Q5 TDI

Lug_Nut said: What's the new parts supply like for the Awful-Helpme Sprite engine? Click to expand...

Jon, actually not bad. IF you want to pay Moss Motors prices. I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Joined Aug 16, 2004 Location South of Boston TDI '97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW Mine doesn't need parts. Because it doesn't run. And it doesn't leak oil. Because there's none in it.

Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg

Joined Oct 25, 1999 Location Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA TDI '00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!) And we were supposed to be talking about, what? Coolant?

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