John E. Senior Member   Posts: 490 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 19, 2019 13:05:55 GMT -7 Quote - Select Post
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Post by John E. on Jun 19, 2019 13:05:55 GMT -7 I'm looking to get a 4x12 closed back cab. Right now I'm looking at either Diezel or Mesa cabs, and Mesa's come with V30's I know, and Diezels come with either V30's, G12K-100's, or G12-65H's (front load or rear load) and I'm not sure which I should go with. I have an Orange PPC212 with V30's which sounds fine but I know Orange's are typically "low mid focused" so the V30's probably smooth that out. I've never tried G12K-100's, and I have used G12-65H's with my Remedy and loved them but not sure how they'd work with a high gain amp.Any opinions? | |
John Made-Man   Posts: 14,235 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 4:45:27 GMT -7 John E. likes this Quote - Select Post
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Post by John on Jun 20, 2019 4:45:27 GMT -7 I just looked at the Celestion website....there is no G12-65H speaker. Are you referring to the G12-65? That has a large dust cover and is known for taming/reducing crispy high end. This would come in handy for high gain amps that are known for being 'buzzy'. | | "Every note sounds like you're rattling a bunch of tin cans and old chicken bones around inside a plastic paint bucket."...Flealux I'm not playing the gig for the money....but don't try to screw me on the money. | |
Deleted Deleted Member  Posts: 0 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 6:21:23 GMT -7 John E. likes this Quote - Select Post
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 6:21:23 GMT -7 Front loaded cabs sure are handy. | |
KeithA Made-Man  Posts: 9,742  | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 6:52:06 GMT -7 Quote - Select Post
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Post by KeithA on Jun 20, 2019 6:52:06 GMT -7 Jun 19, 2019 13:05:55 GMT -7 John E. said:I'm looking to get a 4x12 closed back cab. Right now I'm looking at either Diezel or Mesa cabs, and Mesa's come with V30's I know, and Diezels come with either V30's, G12K-100's, or G12-65H's (front load or rear load) and I'm not sure which I should go with. I have an Orange PPC212 with V30's which sounds fine but I know Orange's are typically "low mid focused" so the V30's probably smooth that out. I've never tried G12K-100's, and I have used G12-65H's with my Remedy and loved them but not sure how they'd work with a high gain amp.Any opinions?I like V30s with high gain amps. I just received my Bogner Helios Eclipse and matching over-sized 212 cab and that has a V30/G12M-65 Creamback combination in there and that sounds great with that amp (i'm using it home, though and not live) I'm not really a fan of H-type speakers with high gain as I find is makes the gain 'marbly'. I do have a 412 with H & M Creambacks and that's not bad, but I wouldn't go with just the H's. I tend to find that the Mesa cabs (V30s) sound thin compared to other V30 cabs. I love the Orange cabs (212 & 412) and they have a full sound.A buddy just ordered a Harvey Benton 212V from the UK for cheap, cheaper than he could get two (2) V30 speakers locally here in Canada. However, if you watch the videp below you'll see what I mean by the Mesa cab sounding 'thinner'. Maybe its the HB cab that's not as clear, I'm not sure but this confirms my experience when I looked at buying a Mesa Rectifier vertial 212 a couple years ago. I would try to demo a Mesa cab before I purchased it, though.If I were to buy a 412 V30-loaded cab now I think it would be a Bogner or Orange (I'm sure the Diezel is great too) but these are all on the pricier side of the spectrum (but you will get a high-qulity cab from any of these manufacturers). However, for me a good, over-sized 212 is all I would need and you already have the Orange 212. | | Last Edit: Jun 20, 2019 7:54:30 GMT -7 by KeithA | |
| John E. Senior Member Posts: 490 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 10:41:32 GMT -7 Quote - Select Post
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Post by John E. on Jun 20, 2019 10:41:32 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 4:45:27 GMT -7 John said:I just looked at the Celestion website....there is no G12-65H speaker. Are you referring to the G12-65? That has a large dust cover and is known for taming/reducing crispy high end. This would come in handy for high gain amps that are known for being 'buzzy'.I hadn't heard of them either that's just what Diezel had listen on their website as a speaker option. | |
| John E. Senior Member Posts: 490 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 10:42:14 GMT -7 Quote - Select Post
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Post by John E. on Jun 20, 2019 10:42:14 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 6:21:23 GMT -7 @roscoenyc said:Front loaded cabs sure are handy.What about them makes them handy? I've never even thought about the way the speakers are mounted | |
| John E. Senior Member Posts: 490 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 10:45:58 GMT -7 Quote - Select Post
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Post by John E. on Jun 20, 2019 10:45:58 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 6:52:06 GMT -7 KeithA said:Jun 19, 2019 13:05:55 GMT -7 John E. said:I'm looking to get a 4x12 closed back cab. Right now I'm looking at either Diezel or Mesa cabs, and Mesa's come with V30's I know, and Diezels come with either V30's, G12K-100's, or G12-65H's (front load or rear load) and I'm not sure which I should go with. I have an Orange PPC212 with V30's which sounds fine but I know Orange's are typically "low mid focused" so the V30's probably smooth that out. I've never tried G12K-100's, and I have used G12-65H's with my Remedy and loved them but not sure how they'd work with a high gain amp.Any opinions?I like V30s with high gain amps. I just received my Bogner Helios Eclipse and matching over-sized 212 cab and that has a V30/G12M-65 Creamback combination in there and that sounds great with that amp (i'm using it home, though and not live) I'm not really a fan of H-type speakers with high gain as I find is makes the gain 'marbly'. I do have a 412 with H & M Creambacks and that's not bad, but I wouldn't go with just the H's. I tend to find that the Mesa cabs (V30s) sound thin compared to other V30 cabs. I love the Orange cabs (212 & 412) and they have a full sound.A buddy just ordered a Harvey Benton 212V from the UK for cheap, cheaper than he could get two (2) V30 speakers locally here in Canada. However, if you watch the videp below you'll see what I mean by the Mesa cab sounding 'thinner'. Maybe its the HB cab that's not as clear, I'm not sure but this confirms my experience when I looked at buying a Mesa Rectifier vertial 212 a couple years ago. I would try to demo a Mesa cab before I purchased it, though.If I were to buy a 412 V30-loaded cab now I think it would be a Bogner or Orange (I'm sure the Diezel is great too) but these are all on the pricier side of the spectrum (but you will get a high-qulity cab from any of these manufacturers). However, for me a good, over-sized 212 is all I would need and you already have the Orange 212.Explain "marbly", I have an idea about what you mean by that but I've never heard that before LOL | |
| Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 10:47:51 GMT -7 John E. likes this Quote - Select Post
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 10:47:51 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 10:42:14 GMT -7 John E. said:Jun 20, 2019 6:21:23 GMT -7 @roscoenyc said:Front loaded cabs sure are handy.What about them makes them handy? I've never even thought about the way the speakers are mountedTypically you don't have to remove the back to get to the speakers.You also don't need a special long socket to remove the nuts. (not always the case but that's how the speakers are mounted in most older cabinets)You don't have to remove the fiberglass to get to the speakers.Front loaded cabs you just pop the grill cloth cover off and there are usually screws with clips holding the speaker are right there.Compare that to an older Marshall cabinet with 16 screws just to get the back off. | | Last Edit: Jun 20, 2019 10:49:43 GMT -7 by Deleted | |
| John E. Senior Member Posts: 490 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 10:51:54 GMT -7 Quote - Select Post
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Post by John E. on Jun 20, 2019 10:51:54 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 10:47:51 GMT -7 @roscoenyc said:Jun 20, 2019 10:42:14 GMT -7 John E. said:What about them makes them handy? I've never even thought about the way the speakers are mountedTypically you don't have to remove the back to get to the speakers.You also don't need a special long socket to remove the nuts. (not always the case but that's how the speakers are mounted in most older cabinets)You don't have to remove the fiberglass to get to the speakers.Front loaded cabs you just pop the grill cloth cover off and there are usually screws with clips holding the speaker are right there.Compare that to an older Marshall cabinet with 16 screws just to get the back off.That does sound handy! How does it affect the sound? I've heard front loaded are a lot tighter but more "beamy" than rear loaded cabs | |
| KeithA Made-Man Posts: 9,742 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 11:17:08 GMT -7 John E. likes this Quote - Select Post
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Post by KeithA on Jun 20, 2019 11:17:08 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 10:45:58 GMT -7 John E. said:Jun 20, 2019 6:52:06 GMT -7 KeithA said:Lol, not tight or focused. That's the best I can explain it. It's like trying to talk with marbles in your mouth  I find that amps that lean toward clean and crunch can benefit from the H-style speakers (takes Doc's successful use of the G12H-30 in lot of his amps). However, I find that once the gain gets into the higher gain range, the cabs and amps benefit from the smaller dust cone speakers.The cab I just got (Bogner) comes stock with a V30 & 65M Creamback. This cab was designed for the Helios, which does 60s/70s-type sounds, but flirts with the higher gain 80s too. My amp is the higher gain. 3 channel version (Eclipse) and that cab works great with that amp as well.Prior to me getting this cab, the best V30-type cabs I've heard that I liked were the Oranges line (212 & 412).Of course, I could be completely wrong  | |
| Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 11:22:02 GMT -7 via Tapatalk KeithA, premiumplus (Dave), and 1 more like this Quote - Select Post
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 11:22:02 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 10:51:54 GMT -7 John E. said:Jun 20, 2019 10:47:51 GMT -7 @roscoenyc said:Typically you don't have to remove the back to get to the speakers.You also don't need a special long socket to remove the nuts. (not always the case but that's how the speakers are mounted in most older cabinets)You don't have to remove the fiberglass to get to the speakers.Front loaded cabs you just pop the grill cloth cover off and there are usually screws with clips holding the speaker are right there.Compare that to an older Marshall cabinet with 16 screws just to get the back off.That does sound handy! How does it affect the sound? I've heard front loaded are a lot tighter but more "beamy" than rear loaded cabsI’d check the signature of the internet expert who voiced that opinion. Sounds like basement baloney to me. | | Last Edit: Jun 20, 2019 13:13:43 GMT -7 by Deleted: spelling! | |
| John E. Senior Member Posts: 490 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 11:34:56 GMT -7 Quote - Select Post
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Post by John E. on Jun 20, 2019 11:34:56 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 11:17:08 GMT -7 KeithA said:Jun 20, 2019 10:45:58 GMT -7 John E. said:Lol, not tight or focused. That's the best I can explain it. It's like trying to talk with marbles in your mouth I find that amps that lean toward clean and crunch can benefit from the H-style speakers (takes Doc's successful use of the G12H-30 in lot of his amps). However, I find that once the gain gets into the higher gain range, the cabs and amps benefit from the smaller dust cone speakers.The cab I just got (Bogner) comes stock with a V30 & 65M Creamback. This cab was designed for the Helios, which does 60s/70s-type sounds, but flirts with the higher gain 80s too. My amp is the higher gain. 3 channel version (Eclipse) and that cab works great with that amp as well.Prior to me getting this cab, the best V30-type cabs I've heard that I liked were the Oranges line (212 & 412).Of course, I could be completely wrong My Orange cab does work really well with most amps I throw at it. I will say (and I'm not sure if it's the cab or the speakers) that the V30's definitely were made for volume cause even though it sounds great at low volumes, when I crank just a 50 watt amp through it, it really opens up, almost like all the strain is suddenly lifted from the speakers and they sound like they're working effortlessly, which I don't get from Greenbacks or even my Creambacks | |
| KeithA Made-Man Posts: 9,742 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 11:40:00 GMT -7 John E. likes this Quote - Select Post
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Post by KeithA on Jun 20, 2019 11:40:00 GMT -7 Jun 20, 2019 11:34:56 GMT -7 John E. said:Jun 20, 2019 11:17:08 GMT -7 KeithA said:Lol, not tight or focused. That's the best I can explain it. It's like trying to talk with marbles in your mouth I find that amps that lean toward clean and crunch can benefit from the H-style speakers (takes Doc's successful use of the G12H-30 in lot of his amps). However, I find that once the gain gets into the higher gain range, the cabs and amps benefit from the smaller dust cone speakers.The cab I just got (Bogner) comes stock with a V30 & 65M Creamback. This cab was designed for the Helios, which does 60s/70s-type sounds, but flirts with the higher gain 80s too. My amp is the higher gain. 3 channel version (Eclipse) and that cab works great with that amp as well.Prior to me getting this cab, the best V30-type cabs I've heard that I liked were the Oranges line (212 & 412).Of course, I could be completely wrong My Orange cab does work really well with most amps I throw at it. I will say (and I'm not sure if it's the cab or the speakers) that the V30's definitely were made for volume cause even though it sounds great at low volumes, when I crank just a 50 watt amp through it, it really opens up, almost like all the strain is suddenly lifted from the speakers and they sound like they're working effortlessly, which I don't get from Greenbacks or even my CreambacksThe effects you are hearing with the Greenbacks and Creambacks may have to do with the small magnet (and is really apart of the sound). That's why players such as EVH would have 4 Greenbacks in a 412 cab driven by a 100-watt head. | | Last Edit: Jun 20, 2019 11:41:27 GMT -7 by KeithA | |
| John Made-Man Posts: 14,235 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 20, 2019 13:12:59 GMT -7 John E. likes this Quote - Select Post
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Post by John on Jun 20, 2019 13:12:59 GMT -7 Some people LIKE that struggling tone of the greenbacks. Those small magnets have some difficulty keeping up at high volumes. And depending on the situation, that can be a desired thing. It's all part of the whole tone equation. Pickups, wood, amp, tubes, speaker, cabinet type...etc. I personally really like it. And V30's are LOUD. Not only 100db loud, but also loud in that they have that upper mid focus....it sort of demands attention. (at the expense of other tones) | | "Every note sounds like you're rattling a bunch of tin cans and old chicken bones around inside a plastic paint bucket."...Flealux I'm not playing the gig for the money....but don't try to screw me on the money. | |
| jeffmp Full Member Posts: 204 | Celestion G12K-100 Vs. G12-65H Vs. Vintage 30's Jun 29, 2019 17:58:24 GMT -7 John E. likes this Quote - Select Post
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Post by jeffmp on Jun 29, 2019 17:58:24 GMT -7 I think he may be reffering to the 12G-65 Heritage? These are Made in England. Ipswitch baby! Or he might not be? | | Last Edit: Jun 30, 2019 17:56:02 GMT -7 by jeffmp | |
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I find that amps that lean toward clean and crunch can benefit from the H-style speakers (takes Doc's successful use of the G12H-30 in lot of his amps). However, I find that once the gain gets into the higher gain range, the cabs and amps benefit from the smaller dust cone speakers.The cab I just got (Bogner) comes stock with a V30 & 65M Creamback. This cab was designed for the Helios, which does 60s/70s-type sounds, but flirts with the higher gain 80s too. My amp is the higher gain. 3 channel version (Eclipse) and that cab works great with that amp as well.Prior to me getting this cab, the best V30-type cabs I've heard that I liked were the Oranges line (212 & 412).Of course, I could be completely wrong 
Nov 9, 2024 8:58:29 GMT -7 Sean: 
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